Hifiman
Well-known member
Worrying times at Tidal.
https://www.engadget.com/entertainm...-entire-product-marketing-team-143045120.html
https://www.engadget.com/entertainm...-entire-product-marketing-team-143045120.html
Rodolfo
Well-known member
Ouch! I don't subscribe, but I do admire a company that focuses on offering quality music rather than not-music, or only-a-little-on-music.
DiggyGun
Well-known member
This is is from the Fortune magazine.
Start;
Jack Dorsey told staff at music streaming app Tidal that they’re in for another mass layoff.
The CEO of Block, which owns the music streaming platform, said in a note to staff Wednesday morning and viewed by Fortune that Tidal needs to operate “like a startup again.” This requires organizations across the company to operate with a “much smaller team,” Dorsey said.
“So we’re going to part ways with a number of folks on our team,” Dorsey explained in the note. “We’re going to lead with engineering and design, and remove the product management and product marketing functions entirely. We’re reducing the size of our design team and foundational roles supporting TIDAL, and we will consider reducing engineering over the next few weeks as we have more clarity around leadership going forward.”
Dorsey did not provide a number of the amount of people to be affected by the job cuts, but speculation among company insiders is that as many as 100 employees could be laid off, which would amount to roughly a quarter of Tidal’s staff.
This is the second layoff at tidal in less than a year. The streamer cut 10% of its staff in December 2023. And in July, Dorsey told Block staff to prepare for a reorganization of the entire company, in order to take Block back “to how we started as a company,” as Fortune reported at the time.
Block acquired a majority stake in Tidal for roughly $300 million in 2021. The streaming music service was at one time under the majority control of Jay-Z, who remains on the company’s board, but struggled to gain traction amid competition from Spotify and Apple music. In 2023 a judge dismissed a shareholder lawsuit against Block over the acquisition according to Reuters, but noted that “it seemed, by all accounts, a terrible business decision.”
A Tidal spokesperson said in a statement to Fortune: “We have made some internal changes to our TIDAL team to focus on serving artists in the most meaningful way. This involved the elimination of some roles across our business and design teams. We are going to be smaller, focus on fewer things, and move with a relentless approach to product development.”
End;
Start;
Jack Dorsey told staff at music streaming app Tidal that they’re in for another mass layoff.
The CEO of Block, which owns the music streaming platform, said in a note to staff Wednesday morning and viewed by Fortune that Tidal needs to operate “like a startup again.” This requires organizations across the company to operate with a “much smaller team,” Dorsey said.
“So we’re going to part ways with a number of folks on our team,” Dorsey explained in the note. “We’re going to lead with engineering and design, and remove the product management and product marketing functions entirely. We’re reducing the size of our design team and foundational roles supporting TIDAL, and we will consider reducing engineering over the next few weeks as we have more clarity around leadership going forward.”
Dorsey did not provide a number of the amount of people to be affected by the job cuts, but speculation among company insiders is that as many as 100 employees could be laid off, which would amount to roughly a quarter of Tidal’s staff.
This is the second layoff at tidal in less than a year. The streamer cut 10% of its staff in December 2023. And in July, Dorsey told Block staff to prepare for a reorganization of the entire company, in order to take Block back “to how we started as a company,” as Fortune reported at the time.
Block acquired a majority stake in Tidal for roughly $300 million in 2021. The streaming music service was at one time under the majority control of Jay-Z, who remains on the company’s board, but struggled to gain traction amid competition from Spotify and Apple music. In 2023 a judge dismissed a shareholder lawsuit against Block over the acquisition according to Reuters, but noted that “it seemed, by all accounts, a terrible business decision.”
A Tidal spokesperson said in a statement to Fortune: “We have made some internal changes to our TIDAL team to focus on serving artists in the most meaningful way. This involved the elimination of some roles across our business and design teams. We are going to be smaller, focus on fewer things, and move with a relentless approach to product development.”
End;
nopiano
Well-known member
It’s a bit worrying. I don’t know how these companies survive, and the fewer there are the more likely that we end up with just Apple and Amazon which imo would be a disaster.
As it happens I prefer Qobuz, but these services need to continue and not get caught in a downward spiral or price wars.
As it happens I prefer Qobuz, but these services need to continue and not get caught in a downward spiral or price wars.
Last edited:
Witterings
Well-known member
I use connect all the time (although I think they call it cast) to all my WiiM streamers either individually or as groups from Amazon Music.
I can also see Chromecast devices / groups so not sure what you're trying to "Connect" to but it certainly works with some products.
Witterings
Well-known member
I do agree with this as if they can "kill" the competition with low procing now they'll crank the cost up when they're the only survivors.
By 'Connect' I mean connecting to the streaming service directly through their native app. It's possible via Spotify and Tidal, and Apple but with Sonos devices only.
I know some devices have apps which will connect directly to Amazon and maybe Qobuz, through the streamer device app. But to my knowledge neither currently allows direct connection via their native apps.
And Qobuz is a niche service that is not as widely available worldwide as Spotify or Tidal. Neither is Amazon.
Witterings
Well-known member
It's really not clear what you're actually saying but if I use the Amazon App on my phone or tablet to "Connect / Cast" to a WiiM streamer the phone is in essence a remote control and the streamer connects directly to Amazon's servers ..... which is wat i THINK you're saying Spotify, and Tidal do on Sonos Devices?
Amazon music combined with a WiiM I believe is one of the few options to connect gapless @ 24/192 but could stand to be corrected on that.
That is what I'm saying - with a caveat: if you're using Chromecast to cast or connect you're never going to get full high-resolution playback. 24/192 is going to be downsampled. Diito Airplay.
Compatible devices like HEOS will allow full fat high res to be streamed directly from Tidal app.
RTHerringbone
Well-known member
Out of interest, whose keen ears can clearly discern a difference between Spotify on "Very High" and Tidal on "Max"? I've got a modest setup and a modest set of ears and just did a brief but largely inconclusive comparison as I've just signed up for a free 30 day trial of Tidal.
I listened to the same opening 90 seconds of the same track 3 or 4 times on each platform, first through a single Sonos One, second through my Hi-Fi speakers, and finally through my headphones on the Hi-Fi.
I couldn't tell the difference.
Then I switched to a second track after this first test proved inconclusive, and on the Hi-Fi and could I actually hear (or think I could hear) some "improvement" on Tidal. To my ears, it seemed like this second track more clearly and more "fully" resolved a subtle bit of finger-picking on a guitar, and that was quickly followed by a less distorted representation of some fairly hefty bass tones.
Obviously I need to prolong this investigation over a much longer (approximately 30 day
) period to get any solid feel for things, but early impressions suggest that this isn't (for my ears) the leap in fidelity that spreadsheets and graphs try to convince us of?
I listened to the same opening 90 seconds of the same track 3 or 4 times on each platform, first through a single Sonos One, second through my Hi-Fi speakers, and finally through my headphones on the Hi-Fi.
I couldn't tell the difference.
Then I switched to a second track after this first test proved inconclusive, and on the Hi-Fi and could I actually hear (or think I could hear) some "improvement" on Tidal. To my ears, it seemed like this second track more clearly and more "fully" resolved a subtle bit of finger-picking on a guitar, and that was quickly followed by a less distorted representation of some fairly hefty bass tones.
Obviously I need to prolong this investigation over a much longer (approximately 30 day
) period to get any solid feel for things, but early impressions suggest that this isn't (for my ears) the leap in fidelity that spreadsheets and graphs try to convince us of?Witterings
Well-known member
Not an exact comparison but ages back I compared Amazon Music on Hi Res 24/192 vs their standard which I believe is possibly CD quality.
Whilst if you walked into someone else's house you wouldn't have a Scooby which they were playing, on a back to back instantly able to switch from one to the other the higher Res seemed to have an ever so slightly "fuller" and warmer presentation ... whether there was more detail there ..... Hmmmmm jury's still out.
I've literally just cancelled Amazon and switched to Tidal in the last week but mainly as Amazon doesn't play well with Bluesound.
Out of interest, whose keen ears can clearly discern a difference between Spotify on "Very High" and Tidal on "Max"? I've got a modest setup and a modest set of ears and just did a brief but largely inconclusive comparison as I've just signed up for a free 30 day trial of Tidal.
I listened to the same opening 90 seconds of the same track 3 or 4 times on each platform, first through a single Sonos One, second through my Hi-Fi speakers, and finally through my headphones on the Hi-Fi.
I couldn't tell the difference.
Then I switched to a second track after this first test proved inconclusive, and on the Hi-Fi and could I actually hear (or think I could hear) some "improvement" on Tidal. To my ears, it seemed like this second track more clearly and more "fully" resolved a subtle bit of finger-picking on a guitar, and that was quickly followed by a less distorted representation of some fairly hefty bass tones.
Obviously I need to prolong this investigation over a much longer (approximately 30 day
I can definitely tell you this - Spotify at max settings sounds better than Tidal at its highest compressed (Low) setting, even though the bit rates may be similar. But Tidal at High (true CD quality) does sound better, richer than Spotify, but with all the clarity. And some of the high-res (Max) tracks do sound excellent indeed.
Tidal software is still not perfect. In terms of the UX and connectivity, Spotify is still supreme.
It's still a minefield for the average user. If you're using recent Sonos equipment, for example, Apple Music would be the way to go. If Qobuz is available for others, that may be the way.
In my region Tidal is utterly compelling, because the price is identical to Spotify, and there's only one tier with no restrictions i.e. High-res and Atmos are there for the taking.
In my region Tidal is utterly compelling, because the price is identical to Spotify, and there's only one tier with no restrictions i.e. High-res and Atmos are there for the taking.
RTHerringbone
Well-known member
It just makes me question my sanity and wonder where the bottlenecks are in my experience.
If I can't easily discern a difference (and I really tried, albeit need to do so for longer) then either my ears aren't keen enough to appreciate the bump in fidelity (highly possible) or by some huge coincidence, the limitations of my budget system are at the exact same point from which the joys of FLAC are properly revealed. It's just a bit of an expensive fumble in the dark to see if upgrading component x, y or z *might* reveal a bit more detail.
If I can't easily discern a difference (and I really tried, albeit need to do so for longer) then either my ears aren't keen enough to appreciate the bump in fidelity (highly possible) or by some huge coincidence, the limitations of my budget system are at the exact same point from which the joys of FLAC are properly revealed. It's just a bit of an expensive fumble in the dark to see if upgrading component x, y or z *might* reveal a bit more detail.
RTHerringbone
Well-known member
Yep and I've done the obvious things like checking that Spotify and Tidal are set to their highest streaming quality.
I've got four more weeks to give Tidal time to impress. It was never going to be the leap in quality I experienced going from Spotify through Sonos, to Spotify through WiiM through "proper" Hi-Fi, but I'd hoped for a stronger first impression. My brother-in-law insists on Tidal being "better" and was bringing out all sort of numbers and charts at Christmas to demonstrate, but when I made him do a blind listening test against Spotify, he was at best 50:50 (and he's a musician).
It seems an area that splits opinion a lot, and that's the sort of thing that makes me narrow my eyes and wonder what this is all about
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