The WHF Film Club

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I'm NEXT...?! :doh: ray: :shifty:

Can I recomend movies that I post to getting in the club BBB? ray: :roll:

 

[BenLaw]

I'm not trying to muscle in. I was honestly under the impression that I was next to nominate, though in retrospect I'm not sure where that idea came from.

I'm more than happy to wait.

Well, I imagine it will have come from BBB's post that I quoted (and the fact that you were the first invited, on a different thread as I recall). If you're not arsed, I'm certainly not.

So anyway, The Wicker Man, do the good guys win in the end???

To be absolutely clear, that's not in any way an anti-police statement, but a question regarding what Howie represents more generally, particularly in contradistinction to Summerisle inhabitants.

Good one. The disc arrived with me a few days ago. I had no plans to watch it but it was suggested by a 17 year old girl we watch it. She believed she had watched the ending but upon questioning in fact had only seen the Nic Cage version! Towards the end, Clodagh suggested something along the lines that the good guy was losing. The response from the 17 year old (brought up Catholic) was that they're all as bad as each other

It's obviously not a clear cut question. Point one: nothing, and certainly not a deranged belief system (AKA a belief system) justify murder, so the Summerislers (?) are definitely the bad guys. Point two: if they didn't do that, then there's no reason not to let the Summerislers get on with what they want to get on with, as long as none of them is being coerced. I think you've said you're a humanist, and therefore ought to disagree with the indoctrination of the young with any belief system; the maypole, school, and jumping through the fire scenes are disturbing in that regard, Point three: Howie's belief system is extremely conservative, no doubt more so with the passing of forty years. I personally disagree with its foundation. However, he too is entitled to his own beliefs as long as they don't impinge on others. And in this film, many of his values are preferable: no ritual slaughter, honesty over deceit, faithfulness to one's partner.

Interesting to see that a scene of him disapproving of the closing hours of the pub was cut. The film treads a delicate line IMO of his views being excessively devout and conservative without him ever acting terribly wrongly on any particular issue. I guess the school scene is the most ambiguous, where he trespasses into the realms of education, but only when he's discovered the children to be lying about Rowan, having opened the register.

 

[BenLaw]

I'm NEXT...?! :doh: ray: :shifty:

Can I recomend movies that I post to getting in the club BBB? ray: :roll:

It sounds like your main aim should be suggesting something that is MUCH better than Le Quattro Volte

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'm NEXT...?! :doh: ray: :shifty:

Can I recomend movies that I post to getting in the club BBB? ray: :roll:

Choice is yours HFO.

 

[strapped for cash]

Good one. The disc arrived with me a few days ago. I had no plans to watch it but it was suggested by a 17 year old girl we watch it. She believed she had watched the ending but upon questioning in fact had only seen the Nic Cage version! Towards the end, Clodagh suggested something along the lines that the good guy was losing. The response from the 17 year old (brought up Catholic) was that they're all as bad as each other

It's obviously not a clear cut question. Point one: nothing, and certainly not a deranged belief system (AKA a belief system) justify murder, so the Summerislers (?) are definitely the bad guys. Point two: if they didn't do that, then there's no reason not to let the Summerislers get on with what they want to get on with, as long as none of them is being coerced. I think you've said you're a humanist, and therefore ought to disagree with the indoctrination of the young with any belief system; the maypole, school, and jumping through the fire scenes are disturbing in that regard, Point three: Howie's belief system is extremely conservative, no doubt more so with the passing of forty years. I personally disagree with its foundation. However, he too is entitled to his own beliefs as long as they don't impinge on others. And in this film, many of his values are preferable: no ritual slaughter, honesty over deceit, faithfulness to one's partner.

Interesting to see that a scene of him disapproving of the closing hours of the pub was cut. The film treads a delicate line IMO of his views being excessively devout and conservative without him ever acting terribly wrongly on any particular issue. I guess the school scene is the most ambiguous, where he trespasses into the realms of education, but only when he's discovered the children to be lying about Rowan, having opened the register.

That's the literal interpretation; and of course I would never endorse murder and ritual sacrifice.

There's an essay by Barry Keith Grant about "transgression and recuperation" in cult cinema. Grant argues that cult films allow us to enjoy, from the safety of our cinema seats, transgressive behaviour that defies social and moral conventions. According to Grant, these transgressions, and the vicarious pleasures they offer, are cult cinema's real lure, though I'd suggest this argument fits a much broader corpus of films.

However, Grant argues that transgressions must be punished and the dominant social order restored by these films' conclusions. Grant doesn't discuss The Wicker Man, but I find it an interesting film because it fails to conform to the latter rule. Aside from a literal "Paganism vs. Christianity" reading of the film, Summerisle is a place where our repressed impulses (sexual impulses especially) are granted free expression.

In direct opposition, Howie represents a repressive force that is ultimately subsumed by more powerful, base impulses. As psychological analogy, The Wicker Man is a film about enduring tensions between our basic impulses and social mores, and the inevitability of base expression.

That doesn't provide a clear-cut answer to the "do the good guys win" question; though on reflection, living on Summerisle would probably be more fun.

 

[BenLaw]

I'll maybe come up with a proper response to that when I'm less knackered and not on my phone.

Meanwhile, do you have a link to that article?

And where do you say Cannibal Holocaust fits into that thesis?

 

[BenLaw]

As to Summerisle being more fun, maybe more than a conservative Christian existence, including no sex before marriage, but I suspect there's a great deal of repression there. How else is everyone so 'on message'?! It's almost as if they have New Labour pagers, as the message changes! I always think of Straw Dogs as a nice cult companion piece. I wouldn't want to live in either village or drink at either local!

 

[strapped for cash]

I'll maybe come up with a proper response to that when I'm less knackered and not on my phone.

Meanwhile, do you have a link to that article?

And where do you say Cannibal Holocaust fits into that thesis?

If memory serves me correctly it's reprinted in The Cult Film Reader.

Cannibal Holocaust perhaps offers vicarious pleasures for closet cannibals. I don't count myself a member of such a group.

It's probably best not to think of theories are monolithically applicable. Grand theories and narratives have been largely outmoded since the 1970s. It's easier to think of theories as observations on a theme.

I've also never seen Cannibal Holocaust, which makes proffering an answer pretty difficult.

 

[BenLaw]

That's not a link!

I also did not expect you to come out as a closet cannibal on this thread.

Not having seen the film does make things difficult. I found it very troubling, in particular it's portrayal of sexual violence. However, its set up as being 'found footage' and gong through the editing process makes it interesting in the context of the article you've mentioned. I think you should watch it and revert.

 

[strapped for cash]

As to Summerisle being more fun, maybe more than a conservative Christian existence, including no sex before marriage, but I suspect there's a great deal of repression there. How else is everyone so 'on message'?! It's almost as if they have New Labour pagers, as the message changes! I always think of Straw Dogs as a nice cult companion piece. I wouldn't want to live in either village or drink at either local!

Again, I'd argue that this is a literal reading of the film. I'm not thinking of these as "real" spaces and characters, but as re-presentations of internal desires and conflicts. That doesn't mean a realist reading of The Wicker Man is impossible, or indeed incorrect.

 

[BenLaw]

As to Summerisle being more fun, maybe more than a conservative Christian existence, including no sex before marriage, but I suspect there's a great deal of repression there. How else is everyone so 'on message'?! It's almost as if they have New Labour pagers, as the message changes! I always think of Straw Dogs as a nice cult companion piece. I wouldn't want to live in either village or drink at either local!

Again, I'd argue that this is a literal reading of the film. I'm not thinking of these as "real" spaces and characters, but as representations of desires, tensions, and conflicts. That doesn't mean a realist reading of The Wicker Man is impossible, or indeed incorrect.

Sorry. Humour (of the literal variety) failing to cone across.

 

[BenLaw]

I would be interested though in your compare and contrast of Wicker Man v Straw Dogs.

 

[strapped for cash]

That's not a link!

That's because there isn't one, unfortunately, unless you subscibe to a particular academic database. Sorry, not much I can do about that!

 

[BenLaw]

That's not a link!

That's because there isn't one, unfortunately, unless you subscibe to a particular academic database. Sorry, not much I can do about that!

Well, you could provide the site and your username and password. I'm guessing that may be against some sort of rule though.

 

[strapped for cash]

Well, you could provide the site and your username and password. I'm guessing that may be against some sort of rule though.

I think it would be against several, though for the record, I get that you were joking.

 

[strapped for cash]

I would be interested though in your compare and contrast of Wicker Man v Straw Dogs.

Well, I'll have a think about it, as I love both films; though I may struggle to get far beyond gawping at Susan George.

I imported the US Straw Dogs Blu-ray, which I'd highly recommend, if you're a fan.

 

[BenLaw]

I would be interested though in your compare and contrast of Wicker Man v Straw Dogs.

Well, I'll have a think about it, as I love both films; though I may struggle to get far beyond gawping at Susan George.

Or indeed Britt Ekland. Or her double's arse.

 

[strapped for cash]

Sorry. Humour (of the literal variety) failing to cone across.

It's not that humour is wasted on me, though I'm trying to think about films as constructions; in particular in terms of what different cinematic spaces might represent.

Black Narcissus is an interesting comparison piece in this regard, in the way it sets up clear oppositions (the nunnery, itself with a licentious history, versus the primal and liberated space of the village; or bells versus drums...).

Thinking about cinematic space in such terms helps us unpack lots of surrealist and expressionist cinema.

Slavoj Zizek's reading of Psycho is interesting in this regard. He argues that the three floors of the Bates house represent the three components of the Freudian psyche -- from top to bottom, super-ego, ego, and id. The transference of Mother to the basement thus represents Norman's efforts at self control.

 

[strapped for cash]

Or indeed Britt Ekland. Or her double's arse.

She always maintained hers was much nicer.

 

[BenLaw]

You edited your post before I replied. I can't remember which version of Straw Dogs I have. What is the difference between the US and UK versions?

 

[BenLaw]

Or indeed Britt Ekland. Or her double's arse.

She always maintained hers was much nicer.

So I believe. I'm not complaining about her double's. It does look a little less toned than her, er, front though. There's a lot more of her, er, front in this version than I recall.

 

[strapped for cash]

You edited your post before I replied. I can't remember which version of Straw Dogs I have. What is the difference between the US and UK versions?

To the best of my knowledge, the cuts are no different, but the US release's video quality is substantially better. They really ****** up the UK Blu-ray.

 

[BenLaw]

Sorry. Humour (of the literal variety) failing to cone across.

It's not that humour is wasted on me, though I'm trying to think about films as constructions; in particular in terms of what different cinematic spaces might represent.

Black Narcissus is an interesting comparison piece in this regard, in the way it sets up clear oppositions (the nunnery, itself with a licentious history, versus the primal and liberated space of the village; or bells versus drums...).

Thinking about cinematic space in such terms helps us unpack lots of surrealist and expressionist cinema.

Slavoj Zizek's reading of Psycho is interesting in this regard. He argues that the three floors of the Bates house represent the three components of the Freudian psyche -- from top to bottom, super-ego, ego, and id. The transference of Mother to the basement thus represents Norman's efforts at self control.

Right. I haven't seen Black Narcissus for many years and wouldn't have expected a comparison, so I will have to rewatch that. I also don't know Psycho well enough to comment on such detail; I don't think I actually own a copy.

 

[BenLaw]

You edited your post before I replied. I can't remember which version of Straw Dogs I have. What is the difference between the US and UK versions?

To the best of my knowledge, the cuts are no different, but the US release's video quality is substantially better. They really ****** up the UK Blu-ray.

Ok. That rings a vague bell that I may have bought the US one but I'm not sure.

 

[strapped for cash]

So I believe. I'm not complaining about her double's. It does look a little less toned than her, er, front though. There's a lot more of her, er, front in this version than I recall.

She gets genuinely cross about it interview.

Do you mean more, or more crisply presented footage? I fear this thread's descending into a "Flesh of the Stars" style pervathon.