if you had read the rest of this thread you would see this has already been mentioned - it is commonly known as the 'law of diminishing returns'. it is also applicable to just about every consumer market and not just hi-fi so your dismissal of high end hifi is rather unjustified.
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I suppose high end can be relative to each individual in that it could be a certain level of cost that would be for him/her a massive luxury. (assuming they don't buy rubbish that is poor value for money!). After all if they don't hear better sounding products regularly they wouldn't really know how much better it can get....Eg someone going from an asda all-in-one super system to budget seperates having never heard anything else of better quality. wadja fink?
High-end is anything I can't afford, which gives me an excellent range of products to choose from.
tractorboy:High-end is anything I can't afford, which gives me an excellent range of products to choose from.
Well, most of us are in the same boat mate, no worries. Still, its nice to aspire to something. Having said that, I've had two surprise experiences in the last couple of weeks; I've listened to an active speaker system which comes very close to 'high end' as I understand it without the price tag and I've just received an interconnect which cost peanuts but compares well to much pricier products.
.....Look ito my eyes. when i click my fingers you will remember your love for passive speakers. You will be yourself once more....CLICK CLICK...........CLICK. err
I am curious. Why do you want to issue a guide to high-end, something thats by its very nature (the very high prices) is of academic interest at best to the majority of your readers (us)? - I am sure you can do 'high-end' as good as some rivals which I would associate more with the subject (HIFI+) but I can't help thinking this is just an exercise to flex your muscles.
Agree, sometimes its interesting to read what is possible with expensive stuff but most people will never even have the oportunity to even listen to any of it unless they live next to one of those esoteric high-end salons. Why bother? Surely, there must be more interesting things to do a 'guide' of, such as perhaps ultimate accessories, ultimate system building, ultimate readers systems .... etc. all more relevant to your average reader than things with price tags of cars? Your ultimate guide to hifi is excellent, why extend that to the ridiculous? Its been done by HIFI Choice (not HT) and personally, I did'nt think it was one of their greatest ideas either.
Agree, sometimes its interesting to read what is possible with expensive stuff but most people will never even have the oportunity to even listen to any of it unless they live next to one of those esoteric high-end salons. Why bother? Surely, there must be more interesting things to do a 'guide' of, such as perhaps ultimate accessories, ultimate system building, ultimate readers systems .... etc. all more relevant to your average reader than things with price tags of cars? Your ultimate guide to hifi is excellent, why extend that to the ridiculous? Its been done by HIFI Choice (not HT) and personally, I did'nt think it was one of their greatest ideas either.
... ultimate guide to ... manufacturers? Visiting premises, observing manufacturing techniques, highlighting interesting products, prototypes, interviewing the people behind the products and sheding some light on the mysteries that lie within our boxes? Just another idea of something people probably can relate to more than high-end per se.
Perhaps I'm wrong though and everybody wants to read about the pinnacle of sound reproduction.
Perhaps I'm wrong though and everybody wants to read about the pinnacle of sound reproduction.
timwileman
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kind of agree with the drummer dude, for me with limited budget and compromised listening space (hey its my house and i need to live in the space too) this UG will essentally be pointless, but i will buy it anyway as pointless is often fun...... and it will give me something to drool over while playing the lotto.... 🙂
then about a week later it will go in the drawer, never to been seen again (unless i win the lotto that is!)
then about a week later it will go in the drawer, never to been seen again (unless i win the lotto that is!)
professorhat
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I guess it's a bit like a big issue of the Temptations section in the magazine which I like to read even though there's rarely anything in there I could afford.
Or buying a magazine with the latest Ferrari / Porsche review in it - I'm never going to be able to afford it but it still interests me. Enough to buy one issue of it anyway!
Or buying a magazine with the latest Ferrari / Porsche review in it - I'm never going to be able to afford it but it still interests me. Enough to buy one issue of it anyway!
drummerman:
I am curious. Why do you want to issue a guide to high-end, something thats by its very nature (the very high prices) is of academic interest at best to the majority of your readers (us)? - I am sure you can do 'high-end' as good as some rivals which I would associate more with the subject (HIFI+) but I can't help thinking this is just an exercise to flex your muscles.
Agree, sometimes its interesting to read what is possible with expensive stuff but most people will never even have the oportunity to even listen to any of it unless they live next to one of those esoteric high-end salons. Why bother? Surely, there must be more interesting things to do a 'guide' of, such as perhaps ultimate accessories, ultimate system building, ultimate readers systems .... etc. all more relevant to your average reader than things with price tags of cars? Your ultimate guide to hifi is excellent, why extend that to the ridiculous? Its been done by HIFI Choice (not HT) and personally, I did'nt think it was one of their greatest ideas either.
I think your perception of high-end (and those of some of the other media brands you mention) may be different to ours. Very interested, for example, at your use of phrases like 'esoteric' and 'price tags of cars'.
By far the majority of content in our Ultimate Guide will be the flagship models of mainstream manufacturers, and starting at prices that will be attainable to anyone who wishes to signficantly invest in their listening and viewing pleasure.
Yes, there will be some dream-machine stuff in there - because who doesn't want to have dreams and aspirations for their systems? - but also a lot of high-end products people can work towards in the real-world.
It's amazing what people can find the money for if something is their passion. You'll find people that spend a vast slice of their disposable income on, for example, following their football team (home and away), or their car, or travelling, or their children (more than £8000 a year to raise a child - think of the hi-fi you could have for that!).
Others will spend that on their home entertainment systems. because that's their passion. This magazine's for them or anyone who wishes that was them!
I am curious. Why do you want to issue a guide to high-end, something thats by its very nature (the very high prices) is of academic interest at best to the majority of your readers (us)? - I am sure you can do 'high-end' as good as some rivals which I would associate more with the subject (HIFI+) but I can't help thinking this is just an exercise to flex your muscles.
Agree, sometimes its interesting to read what is possible with expensive stuff but most people will never even have the oportunity to even listen to any of it unless they live next to one of those esoteric high-end salons. Why bother? Surely, there must be more interesting things to do a 'guide' of, such as perhaps ultimate accessories, ultimate system building, ultimate readers systems .... etc. all more relevant to your average reader than things with price tags of cars? Your ultimate guide to hifi is excellent, why extend that to the ridiculous? Its been done by HIFI Choice (not HT) and personally, I did'nt think it was one of their greatest ideas either.
I think your perception of high-end (and those of some of the other media brands you mention) may be different to ours. Very interested, for example, at your use of phrases like 'esoteric' and 'price tags of cars'.
By far the majority of content in our Ultimate Guide will be the flagship models of mainstream manufacturers, and starting at prices that will be attainable to anyone who wishes to signficantly invest in their listening and viewing pleasure.
Yes, there will be some dream-machine stuff in there - because who doesn't want to have dreams and aspirations for their systems? - but also a lot of high-end products people can work towards in the real-world.
It's amazing what people can find the money for if something is their passion. You'll find people that spend a vast slice of their disposable income on, for example, following their football team (home and away), or their car, or travelling, or their children (more than £8000 a year to raise a child - think of the hi-fi you could have for that!).
Others will spend that on their home entertainment systems. because that's their passion. This magazine's for them or anyone who wishes that was them!
How can a catalogue of brilliant(and very expensive) hifi reviewed not be of interest to any one who loves hifi?!? The best sound is what we all aspire to and so knowing what the supposed standard is will be (mega) useful. Honestly, if someone gave me this guide and then gave me 5 days access to the equipment, I would be in heaven. As that won't be possible I'll have that guide and dream of listening to some of it in the future. Who knows what you'd buy given the chance to listen.
Clare...It's a welcome change imo. I first bought the mags when Kef Coda 7 was the thing to get you up the HiFi ladder. Back then the Magazine reviews anything from Marantz cd48 all the way up to them silly price Yamaha speakers (I can't remember how much but at the time you could have buy a house or two!) Then came the mid 90's when DVD is a must have item....bye bye HiFi
timwileman
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Clare Newsome:(more than £8000 a year to raise a child - think of the hi-fi you could have for that!).
That's it, I'm never having sex again. Just in case.
That's it, I'm never having sex again. Just in case.
timwileman
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tractorboy:Clare Newsome:(more than £8000 a year to raise a child - think of the hi-fi you could have for that!).
That's it, I'm never having sex again. Just in case.
ee up, back in my day we were sent doon pit from age o three, we'd get ome after wokin 25hoor a day and father would kill us stone dead ...... aye dont know there born nowdays
That's it, I'm never having sex again. Just in case.
ee up, back in my day we were sent doon pit from age o three, we'd get ome after wokin 25hoor a day and father would kill us stone dead ...... aye dont know there born nowdays
I have to echo drummerman and would really like to see a magazine do more on system building and comparisons between them. I think we are all well covered on knowing which is 5 star amp or cd player but the most difficult bit is matching separates ( extensive demos are not always available and where they are, it helps to know a few permutations you would like to try out). Even if you decide to match the amp and cd to one manufacturer to ease the miss-matches you invariably are never quite sure what speakers to match up best or put on your shortlist.
For all those people that can't see the point of having a decent car audio system, well you don't know what your missing. You would be amazed at the sound quality that is available with todays technology.
I've recently upgraded my car audio after my very rare 4 channel Denon car amp developed a fault on 1 of the channels. I had it for a good 10 years though so it's lasted well. It cost me almost £500 back then, really nice sounding amp..
So I took my car down to my local car audio shop that I have used for years. After testing my system the amp was found to be faulty and due to the age it would be hard to get repaired. So after going through a few options I ended up buying a 4 channel JL Audio amp to run the front Infinity components and a mono Alpine amp to run my Infinity 12" sub. The JL amp is bridged to run at 2x150W rms, and the Alpine is a 1x250W rms class D amp.
I also decided to buy the new Alpine headunit ( CDA-9887R ) that has the Audyssey multi eq xt processor built in. This runs the rear shelf factory fit JBL speakers. Wasn't cheap at £500 retail but I got a good deal on all the new kit. The shop was saying that the difference this makes to the audio has to be heard to be believed. They have to set the system up with a laptop and 4 mics sat up in each of the seats.What this does is remove all the unwanted "noise" and re-adjusts the frequency response at over 500 points to match the reference signal. It also has time correction and a whole host of tweaking options.
Well what can I say the difference is staggering. It's like comparing a cheap mini hifi to a proper high end home system. Playing Morcheeba's The Sea I was stunned, so much more detailed and the timing is spot on. Especially the bass, really musical,controlled and switches gears in an instant. Even when the music is very complexed every instrument stands out, and the vocals are unbelievable. Playing "over and over" there is so much emotion in her voice it's scary, all the hairs on the back of my neck where tingiling. The soundstage is a huge improvemnt on my old setup.
I then tried some Rage against the machine and the speed and energy blew my mind.
My system in total is around £1500 ish, but I am blown away by the quality of the sound. It doesn't matter what cd I try it sounds amazing. The more I turn up the volume the better it sounds, and you can't do that with a home system without the neighbours banging on the wall. Even the radio sounds good.
The shop was saying that the Alpine amp is working almost flat out to get the sound out of my sealed boot and into the car. And I could really do with a more powerfull amp driving the sub. They are willing to take the Alpine back and knock the money off a better/higher powered amp. Should be a nice step up in quality as well as being even more controlled, especially as it won't be working any where near as hard. Im looking at another £150 though.
It certainly makes the 1.5 hour round trip to work alot more enjoyable that for sure.
I've recently upgraded my car audio after my very rare 4 channel Denon car amp developed a fault on 1 of the channels. I had it for a good 10 years though so it's lasted well. It cost me almost £500 back then, really nice sounding amp..
So I took my car down to my local car audio shop that I have used for years. After testing my system the amp was found to be faulty and due to the age it would be hard to get repaired. So after going through a few options I ended up buying a 4 channel JL Audio amp to run the front Infinity components and a mono Alpine amp to run my Infinity 12" sub. The JL amp is bridged to run at 2x150W rms, and the Alpine is a 1x250W rms class D amp.
I also decided to buy the new Alpine headunit ( CDA-9887R ) that has the Audyssey multi eq xt processor built in. This runs the rear shelf factory fit JBL speakers. Wasn't cheap at £500 retail but I got a good deal on all the new kit. The shop was saying that the difference this makes to the audio has to be heard to be believed. They have to set the system up with a laptop and 4 mics sat up in each of the seats.What this does is remove all the unwanted "noise" and re-adjusts the frequency response at over 500 points to match the reference signal. It also has time correction and a whole host of tweaking options.
Well what can I say the difference is staggering. It's like comparing a cheap mini hifi to a proper high end home system. Playing Morcheeba's The Sea I was stunned, so much more detailed and the timing is spot on. Especially the bass, really musical,controlled and switches gears in an instant. Even when the music is very complexed every instrument stands out, and the vocals are unbelievable. Playing "over and over" there is so much emotion in her voice it's scary, all the hairs on the back of my neck where tingiling. The soundstage is a huge improvemnt on my old setup.
I then tried some Rage against the machine and the speed and energy blew my mind.
My system in total is around £1500 ish, but I am blown away by the quality of the sound. It doesn't matter what cd I try it sounds amazing. The more I turn up the volume the better it sounds, and you can't do that with a home system without the neighbours banging on the wall. Even the radio sounds good.
The shop was saying that the Alpine amp is working almost flat out to get the sound out of my sealed boot and into the car. And I could really do with a more powerfull amp driving the sub. They are willing to take the Alpine back and knock the money off a better/higher powered amp. Should be a nice step up in quality as well as being even more controlled, especially as it won't be working any where near as hard. Im looking at another £150 though.
It certainly makes the 1.5 hour round trip to work alot more enjoyable that for sure.
Yes, I remember when I had a golf gti some ten years ago. Treated myself to a good alpine head unit, two power amps, replaced the speakers with kenwood units and a sub in the boot. It sounded lovely ... until some little **** pushed in through the rear window and ripped everything out. I just could'nt be bothered after that. Shame but I agree, good in-car sound is awesome.
Yeh that is always a worry. Thieving scum.
The good thing is the car looks stock from the outside, all the speakers are in their factory positions. And I only turn the system up when out of town etc. I really don't understand these numpty's that cruise about with the windows down and their poor quality system at full volume. You might as well leave your car unlocked with a big sign saying please steal.
The good thing is the car looks stock from the outside, all the speakers are in their factory positions. And I only turn the system up when out of town etc. I really don't understand these numpty's that cruise about with the windows down and their poor quality system at full volume. You might as well leave your car unlocked with a big sign saying please steal.
Sorry guys but I think 'high end' is a bit of a dodo (the not so little bird that went extinct in the twenties of the last century if I'f I'm not completely wrong. You are clever people that do a lot right but 'high end' is not going to get you additional readership imo. Perhaps I am wrong but I dont think so. Surely you can do better.
ok, maybe I'm wrong. I just got back from a local music festival and I got to be honest, I'm totally drunk
professorhat
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drummerman - you got it backwards I reckon. Most people can't afford high-end, but that doesn't mean they don't want to read about it for £5 (not exactly a high end price). WHF have got it spot on I reckon - much like my car analogy earlier on, people love to and see and read about things they can't afford, just wishing that maybe one day...
Fair point. I'm sure some do. I like to keep one eye on whats wonderful and (to me) unobtainable but I certainly would'nt buy a whole issue about it. If its covered sporadically as part of a normal issue mixed up with whats more relevant to me then I certainly enjoy that.
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