The Ultimate Guide To High-End is on the way – we need your help!

[Clare Newsome]

Rather harsh, TD....

Oh, and Charlie J - lots of tweaking to do on Clearaudio before i pronounce it a good fit for my system. I know its capabilities - i've heard it sound heavenly in testing - but it's getting the right run-in performance, phono amp, cables... Usual stuff, and it's now going to have to wait until next weekend for some serious attention.

 

[Tear Drop]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]Rather harsh, TD....[/quote]

Believe me, I question my own listening ability (and sanity) on a regular basis, much more than I do anybody else

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Tear Drop"][quote user="Clare Newsome"]Rather harsh, TD....[/quote]

Believe me, I question my own listening ability (and sanity) on a regular basis, much more than I do anybody else[/quote]

Good save...

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Tear Drop"]I seriously question Thaiman's critical listening ability from other stuff s/he
has written, so I would take anything s/he writes with a very large pinch of
salt.[/quote]

Can I have a large Cod to go with my pinch of (in)salt please?

[quote user="Tear Drop"]There are NONE. That would be the perfect hifi, and they don't exist. [/quote]

My perfect pair of socks could be the worst pair in your draw! My perfect (meduim rare) fillet steak could be too rare for you. I have my comments and you have yours, You haven't heard my HiFi system in my room...Have you?
I notice some comments from you toward my posts, I have a strange sense of humour, many members here know that, but i don't find this one very funny, Sir.
Teardrop, without coming across as a HiFi snob....What is your current system?...Sir?

 

[gpi]

[quote user="Thaiman"][quote user="Tear Drop"]I seriously question Thaiman's critical listening ability from other stuff s/he
has written, so I would take anything s/he writes with a very large pinch of
salt.[/quote]

Can I have a large Cod to go with my pinch of (in)salt please?

[quote user="Tear Drop"]There are NONE. That would be the perfect hifi, and they don't exist. [/quote]

My perfect pair of socks could be the worst pair in your draw! My perfect (meduim rare) fillet steak could be too rare for you. I have my comments and you have yours, You haven't heard my HiFi system in my room...Have you?
I notice some comments from you toward my posts, I have a strange sense of humour, many members here know that, but i don't find this one very funny, Sir.
Teardrop, without coming across as a HiFi snob....What is your current system?...Sir?[/quote]

There's one quote I would use.

 

[Thaiman]

Excuse my Engrish Guppy .

I had a few port tonight, 1977....gorgeous

 

[up the music]

It's an interesting point somebody made earlier that if High End is meant to be as close as possible to 'being there' that the kit we should have is huge PA designed largely for durability and outright power and enormous listening rooms for live rock recordings. Studio recordings have often been through so much processing that you'd think having tone controls in line but set flat in a HiFi would make no difference. However that's not how it works, instead High End HiFi is all about subtlety and finesse and purity of signal without superfluous processes in the signal path.
From the consumer point of view High End may be a comparative thing. Thaiman would in no way consider my system High End (hopefully he'd find it competent though). On the other hand if I tell Joe Public my amp and speaker combination had a full retail price of around 5500 quid in 2000ish or they heard it they'd consider it to be High End.
I've not heard any of he kit that Andy Kerr really means when he says high end, let alone owned it. Perhaps my LP12 was high end for a while around 1990 but it wasn't partnered with sufficiently exotic arm and cartridge to be real High End.
From the point of view of the manufacturer it largely seems to boil down to the ruthless application of a design philosophy to minimize the compromises and trade offs between the desirable attributes of a system which physics and materials technology dictate must exist. Cabinet size for bass extension vs cabinet rigidity in speakers for example. Ingenious solutions are expensively employed to surmount the insurmountable.
Those who own the perfect system attain a state of nirvana (apparently). Nobody owns the perfect system though, nobody has reached nirvana, but we can strive. For many of us the financial costs or other of lifes priorities mean that we cease our quest for perfection, but are hopefully happy with the systems we have.
I've come along way since beginning this journey in 1983, and have a cupboard full of spare kit to mark some of the milestones I've passed along the way. Best of all though, I've discovered a whole mass of music I never knew existed and enjoy listening to it on a system that gives great pleasure. It can get addictive. I'm confident that there are more upgrades to come and more new music to discover. Will I ever reach Nirvana? Of course not, but I'll have fun trying.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="drummerman"]How do you know what soundstage was present when the recording took place (if any, its mostly done on mixers with artificial phase etc)? Phase correct ?[/quote]

Well, you know how big a piano is don't you? If you have enough of the ambiance present you can gauge how far you are from the piano is. I agree that the live "experience" and hifi do not overlap much but having heard a world class violist playing the Lark Ascending in my friends living room and then hearing a recording of it, I know its possible.

[quote user="drummerman"]Amplified live music has little 'depth, phase correctness, imaging' etc. Its full-on totally immersive with amazing transients and timing if done well.[/quote]

I have been to enough concerts to be quite surprised by your statement. When I saw Fairport play at the Half Moon Putney there was allot of depth,ambience etc... The kind of acoustic information carried "phase" . My last concert- The Eagles at the O2 had depth to it.

Don't get confused between the limitations of the media used and the limitation of the hifi. May I recommend you get a copy of Dave Brubeck's Time Out CD or better still SACD (Which is incredibly better), and take it around as one of your test discs when you evaluate hifi.This recording was done in the late 50's/early 60,s on valve equipment. Close your eyes an listen. The good high end equipment will take you there.

[quote user="drummerman"]I have'nt heard to much 'high end' stuff, certainly not as much as some members but I doubt many home systems can truly replicate a live band performance in your living room unless you have multi thousand watt amplification, big bass bins/satellites and a guy with a drum kit in front of you.[/quote]

Try listening to a bit of classical (un amplified single / limited mic 'ed recordings).

 

[Tear Drop]

[quote user="Thaiman"]What is your current system?[/quote]

It's all custom made, so no brand names to flash around I'm afraid. Besides, what has this got to do with anything?

[quote user="Thaiman"]My perfect pair of socks could be the worst pair in your draw! My perfect
(meduim rare) fillet steak could be too rare for you. I have my comments and you
have yours,[/quote]

I'm not talking about perfect in the sense of being matched to your tastes (in which case everything might as well be perfect, which then renders the word 'perfect' as meaningless), I'm talking about reproducing the live event perfectly. I've heard some pretty stunning, genuinely state of the art hifi and it still falls short in certain areas, way short. I'm sure your system is awesome and gives you immense pleasure but that is a long way from being the perfect hifi.

[quote user="Thaiman"]You haven't heard my HiFi system in my room...Have you?[/quote]

Ditto.

[quote user="Thaiman"]I notice some comments from you toward my posts, I have a strange sense of
humour, many members here know that, but i don't find this one very funny, Sir.[/quote]

Everyone has a strange sense of humour. My post wasn't intended to be funny though, so again, what has this got to do with anything? Look, my intention isn't to offend or provoke - the written word is a pretty bad way of communicating sometimes. I think we are coming at this from two very different angles. My perspective is my perspective, and your perspective is your perspective. Perhaps it should just be left at that.

 

[timwileman]

forgive my thickness or if i have missed it but could someone define 'high end' ..... or will the UG do that for me

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="timwileman"]forgive my thickness or if i have missed it but could someone define 'high end' ..... or will the UG do that for me [/quote]IMHO: it's expensive, difficult to get hold of for your average Joe; it's probably big, showing that only what you hear counts; it makes you hairs stand up when you listen to it, i.e. you get a strong emotional reaction when it plays. This all could (over time) be attributed to a brand name, like meridian for example.

 

[Clare Newsome]

For the purpose of this Ultimate Guide, we're defining high-end as being significantly above the market average in terms of price and performance, but we're trying not to be either too elitist or esoteric.

So, there are lots of familiar brand names in there that shouldn't be too difficult to get to see and hear - eg Naim, Marantz, Classe, Chord, Dali, and many more - and prices will start at the not-too-terrifying level (under £2000 in several categories).

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="drummerman"]How do you know what soundstage was present when the recording took place (if any, its mostly done on mixers with artificial phase etc)? Phase correct ?Thats called 'hifi'. Amplified live music has little 'depth, phase correctness, imaging' etc. Its full-on totally immersive with amazing transients and timing if done well.[/quote]

Another way to look at it is High end equipment tends to add very little to the information coming off your cd/lp, ie less distortion (though valves amps can get away with higher levels of distortions).

So even if you play a heavily processed piece of music, the hifi will add little to it.It also follows that the hifi will generally ruthlessly punish a poor recording more then a "normal" non-high end equipment.

 

[timwileman]

i hate to ask but are you going to included accessories and cables as well? plus i think on another thread someone mentioned matching of components will there be sections on fitting high end gear together?

 

[Anonymous]

Would Cyrus's 'X series of components be described as 'high end'? I dont really think so. Im referring to the DAC-XP and Mono X in particular.

But they're by far the best pieces of hifi equipment I've owned and they allow me to get that very last drop out of my recordings. Regardless of how diminishing the returns are, the incremental improvements are still positive and I still feel there is more space left for me to enjoy my music even further. This fact alone drives my upgrade bug!

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Tear Drop"]It's all custom made, so no brand names to flash around I'm afraid. Besides,
what has this got to do with anything?[/quote]

So How can you judge what I posted? On this thread, it has everything to do with it! Andy asked for help (see thread title), I have owned 2 krells, Chord Electronics, 4 pair of Neats (including 2 of MF range), 2 Primare , 8 Musical Fidelity, 2 Classe, an Audionet, 1 pair of Acoustic Zen adagio, 3 GamuT, a Sugden Masterclass, Naim superNait, 2 pair of Sonus Faber, LSA etc ...in fact I can't bloody remember them all! so I CAN reply to Andy's thread without have to be question by YOU!

[quote user="Tear Drop"]Look, my intention isn't to offend or provoke [/quote]
Really? It doesn't matter how many times I read it, I only can come up with one conclusion. I have been posting on this HiFi forum well over 2000 times and even the most heated discussions I never felt provoke once! well until your post yesterday.

[quote user="Tear Drop"]My perspective is my perspective, and your perspective is your perspective.
Perhaps it should just be left at that.[/quote]
You should think of that before started on me!, enjoy your search for "ability to listen!" whatever that mean. Just remember one thing, I post from my experience not from reading or dreaming. PS I really couldn't believe you use to sell HiFi for living! I am sure you now have a job that suited to you.

 

[timwileman]

[quote user="Tear Drop"][quote user="drummerman"]I doubt many home systems can truly replicate a live band performance
in your living room[/quote]

There are NONE. That would be the perfect hifi, and they don't exist.

[quote user="drummerman"]Thaiman seems to think so [/quote]

I seriously question Thaiman's critical listening ability from other stuff s/he has written, so I would take anything s/he writes with a very large pinch of salt.[/quote] why did you write ''s/he'' when discussing thaiman? i think this boarders on abusive

 

[Anonymous]

I think you're looking too far into that quote Tim...

 

[timwileman]

perhaps but i may have thin skin

 

[Lugs]

You lot are a funny bunch,

the magazine asked "for quotes that try to describe the experience of listening to high-end kit, or try to convey the thrill of owning it."

Not an argument on what or what's not high end? Who cares? Anything specifcally built for purpose could be considered.

I'd like to read about peoples excitement and self induced poverty because of their own perverse interest in music. think this thread has lost its way and not funny to read either.

 

[Tear Drop]

[quote user="Thaiman"]You should think of that before started on me[/quote]

I thought this was a hifi forum, not a seedy pub. My mistake. You have attempted to discuss absolutely nothing in relation to my posts, and are now displaying a rather ugly superiority complex. If this is how you respond when somebody merely questions you then this is going to be my last response to anything you write on this forum. Adios.

 

[Clare Newsome]

[quote user="timwileman"]i hate to ask but are you going to included accessories and cables as well? plus i think on another thread someone mentioned matching of components will there be sections on fitting high end gear together?[/quote]

Yes, there will be accessories - from cables to racks/stands, plus high-end headphones.

And yes, there will be system-matching advice, as well as general tips on demo-ing high-end kit. plus custom install options etc etc.

 

[Thaiman]

Hey Lugs trust me mate, last thing I want is to argue about silly subject but I just don't like someone who hasn't got a clue what Highend is all about questioning my ears!

I said my peace and hopfully we can get back to funny to read thread.

thanks for that Tim. DM is a cool guy, I don't think he mean it in the bad way

 

[timwileman]

[quote user="Thaiman"]Hey Lugs trust me mate, last thing I want is to argue about silly subject but I just don't like someone who hasn't got a clue what Highend is all about questioning my ears!

I said my peace and hopfully we can get back to funny to read thread.

thanks for that Tim. DM is a cool guy, I don't think he mean it in the bad way [/quote] njope wasnt DM that wrote the bit i quoted it was the bit by TD

 

[timwileman]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
[quote user="timwileman"]i hate to ask but are you going to included accessories and cables as well? plus i think on another thread someone mentioned matching of components will there be sections on fitting high end gear together?[/quote]

Yes, there will be accessories - from cables to racks/stands, plus high-end headphones.

And yes, there will be system-matching advice, as well as general tips on demo-ing high-end kit. plus custom install options etc etc.
[/quote] excellent i look forward to drooling all over the magazine while dreaming of lotto wins etc............