The new AVI ADM5 active loudspeakers.

[Ajani]

@ Ajani,

Yes, but that doesn't really matter, the competition isn't any of those mf mentioned, but the plethora of actives available around the same price point or cheaper, many of which have more features.

Having tried some of these recently, though, the only ones that come close to a good, as in neutral, sound, are the Adams, Dynaudios and Genelecs in roughly that order.

The Adam Artist 3 and 5 are both sweet speakers that come in under the AVI 5, and have better features.

I got the impression the pro audio market is definitely being targetted, in which case the AVIs would need to be something really out of the ordinary, especially as dealers are few and far between. They also need to be sent around the traps for reviews, which has not as yet been AVI policy.

Anyway, time will tell. I gather this is all pre-release marketing anyway, since specs are still changing.

I think the competition is both small actives (mostly from the pro side) and small passive monitors. For example; a consumer could buy a Kef LS50 with an integrated amp or an ADM5 with a preamp.

The ADM5 will have to be really special to best either option. There are a number of well rated pro monitors for around the price of (or less than) the ADM5. You mentioned the Adam Artist 3 & 5, but if you don't need the glossy finishes and USB, then you can get the A3X or A5X (which are essentially the same speakers) for significantly less. You could even get the new Adam F5 for about half the price of the A5X. Here on the other side of the Atlantic, I could get Dynaudio BM5A mkii for less than the proposed price of the ADM5. So there are a LOT of pro options around that price. Heck I could even get a pair of Magnepan MMGs and a Nurforce DDA100 digital integrated amp for just about the proposed price of the ADM5.

 

[John Duncan]

. I've sold the pair of Adm's I had as I despise the way this company do "business".

If I did that for every company that I thought conducted its business in an unethical way I'd be sat in a field with no clothes on.

Although I do excercise that choice with a few brands...such as Apple and to a lesser extent, Amazon.

I try to buy products that haven't been tested on animals or have come through sweatshops and near-slave labour.

But you have chosen to avoid a company because of a couple of loudmouths. Well done. You lose the internet.

I have some sympathy with both these views. What I have no sympathy for is overly vociferous pro or anti AVI folk who bang on all the time, encouraged in no small part by mods (for whom I have little to no respect now) who like to say things like "we really should stop all this" and "what?! Me?! I'm only letting the people talk about what they want to talk about", before jumping head first into deliberately winding things up withing the first page of the thread.

o/

Do let me know which house rules I'm not enforcing...

 

[davedotco]

@ Ajani,

Yes, but that doesn't really matter, the competition isn't any of those mf mentioned, but the plethora of actives available around the same price point or cheaper, many of which have more features.

Having tried some of these recently, though, the only ones that come close to a good, as in neutral, sound, are the Adams, Dynaudios and Genelecs in roughly that order.

The Adam Artist 3 and 5 are both sweet speakers that come in under the AVI 5, and have better features.

I got the impression the pro audio market is definitely being targetted, in which case the AVIs would need to be something really out of the ordinary, especially as dealers are few and far between. They also need to be sent around the traps for reviews, which has not as yet been AVI policy.

Anyway, time will tell. I gather this is all pre-release marketing anyway, since specs are still changing.

I think you are wrong on this one Al, I totally see where you are coming from but there is much more to this than just the comparison of size, features etc.

Personally, I see the market as being computer audio, either desktop or 'proper' setups where even the ADM 9s are considered too big.

A Sonos Connect and a pair of active speakers are all a lot of people need but they are put off by the looks of studio type speakers, Adam Artist models are probably the most obvious competition but they are hard to find.

There are enthusiasts in the pro-audio business as in any other and no doubt some will like what the ADM5s do, after all the 9s have found themselves in pro applications though in relative small numbers.

Interesting to see how they go when thet are released.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Not that hard to find: http://www.thomann.de/gb/adam.html

 

[davedotco]

Not that hard to find: http://www.thomann.de/gb/adam.html

Easy to buy, hard to see or listen too.

I have no issue shipping product out of Germany but I doubt I am the norm in this respect.

Major London dealer, Studiospares, do not sell the Artist range and they are a bit too expensive, relatively speaking, for the music shops.

 

[John Duncan]

Not that hard to find: http://www.thomann.de/gb/adam.html

Easy to buy, hard to see or listen too.

I have no issue shipping product out of Germany but I doubt I am the norm in this respect.

Major London dealer, Studiospares, do not sell the Artist range and they are a bit too expensive, relatively speaking, for the music shops.

www.decks.co.uk/store_homepage

 

[steve_1979]

I think the Adam Artist 6 look rather smart. 8)

 

[steve_1979]

1. The Behringer UCA-202 at just £30 is probably the cheapest DAC/pre-amp which will offer true high fidelity sound quality.

2. There are also the more conventional hifi DAC/pre-amps such as the Beresford DAC's or the Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus.

3. The Sonos Connect or a Logitech Squeezebox Touch would make a perfect 'all in one' source and pre-amp for active speakers.

4. You can also use any AV reciever which has 'analogue pre-outs' as a DAC and pre-amp.

5. There are some hifi streamers and CD players which include a DAC and pre-amp such as the Audiolab 8200CDQ or the Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6.

6. There are also dozens and dozens of DAC/pre-amps available from the pro-audio world too.

7. Ashley James even claims that the headphone output from his Phillips TV is audiably indistinguishable from a hifi DAC/pre-amp.

8. Even the iPhone or some of the good quality MP3 players offer genuine high fidelity sound quality from their analogue headphone outputs and can be plugged straight into a pair of active speakers.

As you can see from this comprehensive list there is no shortage of good quality affordable DAC's and pre-amps that can be used with regular active speakers.

You can also add some Blu-ray players to that list too.

Some Blu-ray players such as the Cambridge Audio BD752 or the Oppo 105 have analogue audio outputs which can be used with active speakers.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I think the Adam Artist 6 look rather smart. 8)

I love the black finish one, very smart!

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Steve, that's fine, but there are people who have more than one source, then you're into preamp territory.

Also, that list works with any active speaker, whether it be Yamaha, Adam Audio or KRK.

 

[steve_1979]

Steve, that's fine, but there are people who have more than one source, then you're into preamp territory.

Also, that list works with any active speaker, whether it be Yamaha, Adam Audio or KRK.

I agree on both accounts.

Personally I'd go for a cheap secondhand AV reciever with 'analogue pre-outs' because it gives you lots of different inputs (digital, analogue and phono stage) and has many other options such as subwoofer outputs, adjustable subwoofer crossover, a graphic equalizer and many other digital options for adjusting the sound in various ways.

Using a cheap AV receiver isn't an issue for sound quality either because you're not going to be using its built in power amplifiers so it's unlikely to have any derogatory effect on the sound quality because you're only using its DAC and pre-amp features.

 

[John Duncan]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

 

[Overdose]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

You think that preamps in an AVR are no good?

 

[steve_1979]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

I never said that pre-amps don't matter. But provided that the pre-amp has been designed properly then the level of distortion that it introduces will be low enough for it not to be an issue.

I doubt you'd be able to hear any difference between two properly designed pre-amps in a blind comparison. I've tried it once with a few pro-audio monitor controller pre-amps and AV receiver pre-amp and they all sounded identical to my ears.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

You think that preamps in an AVR are no good?

You think therefore you am?

 

[Overdose]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

You think that preamps in an AVR are no good?

You think therefore you am?

You don't think.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

You think that preamps in an AVR are no good?

You think therefore you am?

You don't think.

Australian, mate. Act 1st, think second - unless you're releasing speakers into a very difficult market! Has the boss said what the target market is?

 

[chebby]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

If the headphone amp in a Philips TV is indistinguishable from any other DAC/pre-amp then I guess the answer must be no, they don't matter that much.

I beg to differ inasmuch as the quality of audio from the analogue RCA outputs on my Panasonic TV are quite obviously inferior to the audio quality when the TV is connected to the hi-fi with an optical digital cable instead.

It also makes me wonder why the ADM9s have always employed such a good quality DAC/Pre when a 3.5mm - 3.5mm analogue cable - from a TV headphone socket - is 'indistinguishable' in quality. (Or am I missing something important here?)

 

[John Duncan]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

You think that preamps in an AVR are no good?

Whether an AVR or a stereo amplifier, I don't think it's very good advice to say that any old pre amp will be effectively transparent.

 

[John Duncan]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

If the headphone amp in a Philips TV is indistinguishable from any other DAC/pre-amp then I guess the answer must be no, they don't matter that much.

I beg to differ inasmuch as the quality of audio from the analogue RCA outputs on my Panasonic TV are quite obviously inferior to the audio quality when the TV is connected to the hi-fi with an optical digital cable instead.

It also makes me wonder why the ADM9s have always employed such a good quality DAC/Pre when a 3.5mm - 3.5mm analogue cable - from a TV headphone socket - is 'indistinguishable' in quality. (Or am I missing something important here?)

On the contrary, I think you may have highlighted the dangers inherent in believing non-scientists who have something to sell.

 

[Overdose]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

You think that preamps in an AVR are no good?

You think therefore you am?

You don't think.

Australian, mate. Act 1st, think second - unless you're releasing speakers into a very difficult market! Has the boss said what the target market is?

If you need answers to technical queries or how the business is moving forward, you had best ask the people running the show. I'm sure that if you expressed a genuine interest, you might be furnished with a suitable response. Does the AVI forum not give you the answers you seek? That would be the logical place to air your thoughts.

I'm sure the target market would be similar to other active hifi speakers though and also for studio use. Price will doubtless be a factor in their success, just like any other product, but to assume that the competition is much cheaper active monitors, might as well be comparing a top line Audi saloon with a more mundane offering from say Hyundai and suggesting that the former is in any way some sort of competition.

 

[steve_1979]

If the headphone amp in a Philips TV is indistinguishable from any other DAC/pre-amp then I guess the answer must be no, they don't matter that much.

My guess is that the quality of the analogue output would vary quite a lot between TV's. It's not something that I've ever tried myself though so I can't comment from experience (my TV is a heap of c**p anyway).

I have compared my (top of the range) Sony MP3 player to hifi quality DACs and pre-amps and it sounds indistinguishable to them to my ears. Considering this it doesn't seem all that far fetched that some TVs analogue output could be good enough quality to be indistinguishable to hifi DACs and pre-amps too.

But as I said I've never actually compared a TVs analogue output so I'm a bit sceptical about this too. :?

 

[Overdose]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

You think that preamps in an AVR are no good?

Whether an AVR or a stereo amplifier, I don't think it's very good advice to say that any old pre amp will be effectively transparent.

Pretty much any preamp (botched designs aside) should be nigh on transparent. They don't usually produce enough distortion to be audible in themselves. That aside, everyone uses a preamp of some description anyway, it's the first stage in the amplification chain, so you can imagine that there's quite a lot of choice so long as a preout is available.

If distortion is of concern, then there are plenty of choices for the more discerning.

 

[John Duncan]

My guess is that the quality of the analogue output would vary quite a lot between TV's.

Why is your guess that the quality of the analogue outputs would not vary quite a lot between AVRs?

 

[Ajani]

You think that pre-amps don't matter?

If the headphone amp in a Philips TV is indistinguishable from any other DAC/pre-amp then I guess the answer must be no, they don't matter that much.

I beg to differ inasmuch as the quality of audio from the analogue RCA outputs on my Panasonic TV are quite obviously inferior to the audio quality when the TV is connected to the hi-fi with an optical digital cable instead.

It also makes me wonder why the ADM9s have always employed such a good quality DAC/Pre when a 3.5mm - 3.5mm analogue cable - from a TV headphone socket - is 'indistinguishable' in quality. (Or am I missing something important here?)

I asked a similar question earlier. I suppose, in fairness, AVI never claimed the TV headphone out was as good as the AVI DAC/Pre, just indistinguishable from all conventional HiFi. So perhaps it is indistinguishable from just the audiofoo made by every other manufacturer.