the hegel sound ?

[MUSICRAFT]

I'll catch up with this later on. Busy at the moment trying to set up a M&K Sound S150/X10 sub/sat two channel system. Looks it's likely to be 10pm again this week before finishing at the store tonight. Work, work, work

 

[Simon 13th note]

Nobody is forcing you to do reviews. If you don't like HiFi dealers getting sales on the back of your reviews, then don't review.

that’s why it wasn’t viable In that model, but obviously you need people to appreciate and those that are will pay for it.

 

[Jimboo]

I don’t see the problem, and only do it where I rate products, as everyone has to survive. some reviews I did I didn’t rate and I wouldn’t expextto benefit on doing videos that took some time from those.

difference is HiFi dealers don’t really add that much value imo. I did the hard work, someone turns up to your dealership and buys, they say based on my review. I don’t get anything,

I only had a hint they had and it was more about getting information that could warrant ad income.

I don’t have anything against your dealer Personally but I don’t trust most HiFi dealers . It’s just as sales games as the comments above show,

You couldn't be more wrong fella. You can prance and preen via video and use all the terms , fast, tight , superb rhythm etc. As a punter you are just another opinion listing tired old cliche after cliche. If you like it or not it means NADA to me until I hear it. I bought my kefls50w speakers because I wanted less boxes . In the demo it was obvious the apps were crap but the sound was superb.To a man every review by every reviewer singularly failed to mention a very serious flaw in the product.
The dealer acknowledged the problem , gave me the opportunity too see and most importantly hear what I was getting. The apps have never improved , annoying yes,but c.d and turntable are my go to sounds.
It is arrogance to expect payment for opinion. Teenagers need a no mark to tell them how to buy make up. In truth online and written reviews are close to useless.I used yet another dealer because of stock levels and finance. Reviewing hifi online is as much use as you telling me DFS sofas suit my bum shape without knowing my build.
We need a dealer because only in the demo room do we get an idea where we stand. Paying you a little and costing me a little more,nah.

 

[Simon 13th note]

i won’t try and convert your view of reviewers, other than point out you should have come to me if timing right as the LSX, which I tried, uses the same apps and I did discuss the app failings in my review. I discussed with KEF and a known issue. other reviews have said same thing. My review site was an attempt at being honest. You are right, sound of ls50w is supberb. Unfortunately the market is beset by people who dont trust others. I can’t blame you for that. It’s the majority shaping your view and manufacturers are complacent with that. Did you see my Auralic Aries review. Lol. I said it was low vfm. cheers. Ps I very much doubt most dealers would mention that Unless confronted, so as not affecting sales, which it sounds like happened in your demo. If they do great but I do it online. I was brutal in my honesty sometimes. Costs a lot. The Hegel products got high praise as they are terrific. If something better for money comes along that I hear I’d have said/say. What I would do though is look at what people are saying, assuming before purchase, because it does allow you a better handle of all this.

 

[Jimboo]

Yeah , your reviews are valid for you , it's how it is. I own my kefs and if I am asked, the downside is the first thing I mention. Had I being reviewing them ? No more than 3stars because of the sound. As an item it fails to live up to the advertised product and the reviews should basically have buried the product until they sorted it out. 2 years on and the apps get worse. Product of the year?
The reason there is no trust in the market is because of hype,snake oil and reviewers. As I said the dealer cannot hide an unsuitable product. If you aren't part of the solution then you are as complient as the rest of the circus. 99% of newbie and other questions that start whaddya think of this.... Frankly deserve the mess of answers that those threads generate.

 

[Simon 13th note]

My view are hopefully valid for lots. I can’t tell you how much great praise I’ve had for honesty. Yeah mate, but you can’t blame me.....sorry mate i can’t sort out the whole industry. I don’t even get paid for this.

What is the actual issue? Message me or phone me, And we can sort out a work around hopefully I can Reverse your views. You are happy with sq. No idea why I’m volunteering but hey ho. This is a Hegel thread so we are maybe messing it up And keep on thread Hence why message best. cheers.

ps I agree with you on snake oil and reviewers. I was trying so hard to reverse the staus quo, and this type of post always saddens me.

 

[Jimboo]

Hegel's, Sony,marantz etc. The Hegel is of interest to many and their site is full of wonderful words. It's impossible to convey to a listener in all honesty how it sounds to them however you mix and match them with any other components in any given environment.
If you want to be subjective it isn't in graphs or agreement with the sales pitch. It is purely solely dependent on the listeners ear.
The most honest, informative and helpful advice is demo , demo , demo. Your dealer can help with the issues that involve what drives what. As I said on another thread I buy , drink and enjoy single malt. No two reviews or comments are ever the same. I rarely, even while drinking it understand or taste what other people do.
Hegel may have a sound , I guarantee any 5 people hearing their products will have 5 different experiences. This forum is full of responses and questions generated by reviews and advertising. When experience of a product is stated , alas, it's subjective.

 

[Simon 13th note]

Objective agreement can be reached in comparison. Cyrus is brighter to Arcam etc. so yes it is possible in that context. There is subjectivity to your own preferences, sure, but done well the review when comparison based steers you on what to try, to those tastes.

i think the English language is wide enough if you are willing to listen, to convey what people think.

dealers are an issue as they sell based on stock and they dont always have everything, although a good selection often, not always.

nobody can say la Phroig isnt antiseptic smelling and character to bushmills smoothness. That’s a fact.

5 people will have different experiences if they are in isolation. That’s why I always advocated comparison. The issue nobody can compare in isolation. Reviews that don’t are bs Because impossible to tell. It would be like asking you to review bacon when nobody is trying other cuts.

the views on forumS are subjective often as to what people prefer, but within this preferences can be drawn groups as to what they like. Nobosy would be advoating Cyrus if you like smoothness. Sugden maybe.....Is this not common sense.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

I don’t see the problem, and only do it where I rate products, as everyone has to survive. some reviews I did I didn’t rate and I wouldn’t expextto benefit on doing videos that took some time from those.

difference is HiFi dealers don’t really add that much value imo. I did the hard work, someone turns up to your dealership and buys, they say based on my review. I don’t get anything,

I only had a hint they had and it was more about getting information that could warrant ad income.

I don’t have anything against your dealer Personally but I don’t trust most HiFi dealers . It’s just as sales games as the comments above show,

i have not read the rest of this thread as of yet but feel i need to wave a white flag as the two members rick and simon both have points and i happen to value their contributions to the forum.

i'll start by saying i would have no hesitation in buying from rick.

i say this as, not only has he answered my questions on kit, but he has remained consistent with his advice regarding cabling.

as a shop / business owner the idea is to make money but the fact that rick advises to use the free power cables, freebie interconnects and the cheapest qed 79 strand speaker cable is commendable.

i say this as the price of "exotic" cables is extortionate, hence i can imagine, the profits to be made are sky high but the fact that rick steers clear of doing this is worthy of praise.

as a result, if my euromillions ticket wins, i have total confidence buying what would be several systems (about 15) from rick for friends / family.

i also see simons point however as regards to trying to generate funds for his review site / video channel.

i say this as there are many videos on youtube that have "strategically placed" advertising often for products that are completely unrelated to the subject in the video - coffee brands mentioned in a loudspeaker review anyone ?

overall the quality of simons videos are excellent and, could not be cheap to produce, hence it makes business sense does it not to seek some form of sponsorship ?

i don't know the full details, obviously, but a link up with a shop / retailer seems a perfectly reasonable idea.

either way my question on the hegel kit has been answered so thanks for all input.

My view are hopefully valid for lots. I can’t tell you how much great praise I’ve had for honesty. Yeah mate, but you can’t blame me.....sorry mate i can’t sort out the whole industry. I don’t even get paid for this.

What is the actual issue? Message me or phone me, And we can sort out a work around hopefully I can Reverse your views. You are happy with sq. No idea why I’m volunteering but hey ho. This is a Hegel thread so we are maybe messing it up And keep on thread Hence why message best. cheers.

ps I agree with you on snake oil and reviewers. I was trying so hard to reverse the staus quo, and this type of post always saddens me.

+1.

 

[Simon 13th note]

i have not read the rest of this thread as of yet but feel i need to wave a white flag as the two members rick and simon both have points and i happen to value their contributions to the forum.

i'll start by saying i would have no hesitation in buying from rick.

i say this as, not only has he answered my questions on kit, but he has remained consistent with his advice regarding cabling.

as a shop / business owner the idea is to make money but the fact that rick advises to use the free power cables, freebie interconnects and the cheapest qed 79 strand speaker cable is commendable.

i say this as the price of "exotic" cables is extortionate, hence i can imagine, the profits to be made are sky high but the fact that rick steers clear of doing this is worthy of praise.

as a result, if my euromillions ticket wins, i have total confidence buying what would be several systems (about 15) from rick for friends / family.

i also see simons point however as regards to trying to generate funds for his review site / video channel.

i say this as there are many videos on youtube that have "strategically placed" advertising often for products that are completely unrelated to the subject in the video - coffee brands mentioned in a loudspeaker review anyone ?

overall the quality of simons videos are excellent and, could not be cheap to produce, hence it makes business sense does it not to seek some form of sponsorship ?

i don't know the full details, obviously, but a link up with a shop / retailer seems a perfectly reasonable idea.

either way my question on the hegel kit has been answered so thanks for all input.

Well thought out. Thanks.

Try phoning a dealer to ask a leading question on a brand you dig and nothing else is better, and see how many take the bate (I’m not suggesting rick would and I got my words mixed in my message so sorry rick), but the vast majority will. It’s a sales game. The issue with cables is well known to be high diminishing returns, so unsurprising, but the ‘meat and veg‘ with our wallets lies in some of the products that are appalling for the money. youll always get people say they like them when they’ve not tried the plethora of a to b‘s I often have, often accross lots of gear.

Nobody in a dealer would say that a £1000 streamer isn’t as good as a £500 one. You perhaps can’t blame them. It’s sales. They will rightly say make your mind up yourself, and with the available budget, the product itch set by biased reviewer steered reviews, and product willingness, and A view price means performance plus all the sold features on the firms website, you’ll bet people will buy that product. I wasnt immune prior to reviewing, but what the last year has taught me is because I’m not actually buying lots of it, I can see lots of it for what it is - small changes. When it’s A decent change it’s great but the experience makes you think, no I’m not spending £1000 for a few percent. I don’t have to convince myself on the change.

At the end of the day ask yourself do you enjoy music as much and do you need to buy?

 

[Deleted member 188516]

I'll catch up with this later on. Busy at the moment trying to set up a M&K Sound S150/X10 sub/sat two channel system. Looks it's likely to be 10pm again this week before finishing at the store tonight. Work, work, work

glad your busy in these crappy times.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Lyndorf seems to be the brand Rik mentions now and they do look the business.

I do also mention/recommend new and discontinued products from brands that we don't deal with so nothing specific regarding Hegel because if you might recall in April of this year i posted my brief impressions of one of our clients system and his move from another similar four box and similarly priced source/pre/power combination to Lyngdorf Audio's TDAI-2170 (the model below the TDAI-3400). My original post is below -

I'll keep this as brief as possible.

I was asked by a client to visit him because he wanted to show me and listen to his new single chassis £3k amplifier which according to our client"wipes the floor clean" with his DAC and pre amp/mono amps costing many times more.

First, we heard the DAC, pre amp/mono's and B&W 805's with a B&W ASW675 sub. This system sounded pretty damn good to me

Next, the DAC and the pre amp/mono's were substituted for Lyngdorf Audio'sTDAI-2170 digital amplifier. Before playing something our client asked me to put my ear next to the 805's with the TDAI-2170's volume on max. I heard nothing. No noise, no hiss and no hum. Nothing. The TDA-2170 was dead quiet. Next with the volume now turned down our client hit play on the CDP. The result was WOW Our client wasn't kidding when he said the TDAI-2170 "wipes the floor clean" with his DAC and pre amp/mono amps (which are all massively built and impressive to look at btw).

Things were set to get even better because our client now activated the ace up the TDAI-2170's and Lyngdorf Audio's sleeve. Lyngdorf Audio's Room Perfect room correction. RoomPerfect maps and corrects the acoustic errors of the room and importantly without changing the characteristics of the loudspeakers. I'd read about RoomPerfect and now i got experience the technology first hand. The 805's/ASW675 were now locked together, without a change in their presentation, playing as one and simply breathing. My jaw hit the floor.

With the restrictions in place and being at home i got a hold of the daddy in the range the TDAI-3400. Sure enough the qualities of the TDAI-2170 which to put it mildly impressed me so much are carried over to the TDAI-3400 and then some. The TDAI-3400 is stunning. Just stunning.

Btw, our clients previous DAC/pre amp/monoblocks were from Chord Electronics and Classe Audio.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

i think the lyndorf kit has room correction or something built in (?).

Yes, the bees knees of room correction Lyngdorf Audio's own RoomPerfect digital room correction technology which amongst its other qualities is the only room correction system i am aware of corrects the acoustical errors of the room whilst preserving the sound of the loudspeakers.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

may i ask why you are happier using the tdal-3400 ?

(does it sound better or do you prefer having less "boxes" ?)

single chassis, taking up less space

1 mains lead

quality of build, fit and finishing

excellent app/web browser

bees knees of room correction

seamless sub woofer integration

voicing equaliser which can be customised

digital amplification

runs cooler

no noise, hum, buzz, no nothing

chews up less electricity

around a 1/5th of the price

etc.

Btw, and ultimately i do also like TDAI-3400's performance.

 

[Gray]

single chassis, taking up less space

1 mains lead

quality of build, fit and finishing

excellent app/web browser

bees knees of room correction

seamless sub woofer integration

voicing equaliser which can be customised

digital amplification

runs cooler

no noise, hum, buzz, no nothing really then?

chews up less electricity

around a 1/5th of the price

.....but apart from that, there's nothing then?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

.....but apart from that, there's nothing then?

Sorry Gray but i don't get it.

 

[Gray]

Sorry Gray but i don't get it.

Just an attempt at humour......but you thought I was serious

You gave the most comprehensive list of desirable attributes anyone has ever seen - that's the point I was (backhandedly) making.....I was jokingly asking why you liked it so much.
It takes a twisted mind to get sarcasm. There are a few here, but I need to remember you're one of the straight ones .

 

[Deleted member 188516]

single chassis, taking up less space

1 mains lead

quality of build, fit and finishing

excellent app/web browser

bees knees of room correction

seamless sub woofer integration

voicing equaliser which can be customised

digital amplification

runs cooler

no noise, hum, buzz, no nothing

chews up less electricity

around a 1/5th of the price

etc.

Btw, and ultimately i do also like TDAI-3400's performance.

thanks rick for the detailed replies in this thread appreciated.
(the lyngdorf tdai-3400 sounds like real value for money).

 

[Surly Sid]

Hegel = Over rated

 

[Simon 13th note]

Hegel = Over rated

pick an over rated brand, pick naim or cyrus Audio, because comparatively Hegel is very good value for money in audiophile spheres. I have a h120 which is terrific Against competition I’ve reviewd.

 

[Surly Sid]

pick an over rated brand, pick naim or cyrus Audio, because comparatively Hegel is very good value for money in audiophile spheres. I have a h120 which is terrific Against competition I’ve reviewd.

Bla bla bla

 

[Romulus]

I always wanted a review of ATC electronics in comparison to Hegel amps. Unfortunately to date there has not been such a review online. Reason for such a comparison, reading various reviews of both brands both are described as having a neutral sound, with low distortion, giving electric input into speakers, but it is the speakers which would bring out the 'character ' of the sound. Hegel seem to be getting a reputation for a large deep 3d sound with an immediate sound yet ATC also have good tonal qualities and timing...In Bristol HIFI show I heard both amps from ATC and Hegel. The ATC audition left a good impression on me while Hegel was ok but a little boring, then the Hegel was driving Amphion Speakers and the ATC amp was driving ATC SCM40 V2 which for me personally was the killer combination...!

It is ironic that a Hegel 'sound' is discussed on a WHF forum when to date not a single Hegel component has ever been reviewed by WHF...?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Just an attempt at humour......but you thought I was serious

You gave the most comprehensive list of desirable attributes anyone has ever seen - that's the point I was (backhandedly) making.....I was jokingly asking why you liked it so much.
It takes a twisted mind to get sarcasm. There are a few here, but I need to remember you're one of the straight ones .

Ok. Thanks

 

[MUSICRAFT]

glad your busy

Very busy. Work is taking up around 120 hours a week.

 

[plastic penguin]

The idea that there is a house sound with any system is a fallacy as, of course, everyone will hear something different.
The basic idea that the question was posed so that there could be an immediate reposte is perhaps why anyone that happens to own such a setup will admit to it.

I do believe certain brands have a common trait. The perfect example is Leema. Both the Tucana and Pulse have sibling traits, with a very grippy bass and an agile presentation. It's a question of whether that sound appeals to you. Therein lies other factors, such as room acoustics, source and speaker matching, preferred genres and so on and so forth.

As regards the original question, have no idea. Yet to hear Hegel stuff in the flesh. Even if I had, I can only judge it on the rest of my kit and room....