The Car Thread.

[plastic penguin]

I know not many were built but, don't forget the 8C with it's 4.7L V8, although I know it was a Ferrari engine.

This was the issue with Alfas, the V8 were a very limited run. I've never seen a 8c in the flesh, so to speak. I'm going to Brooklands 'Italian car day' next month and I doubt they'll be one there either.

They also produced the Disco Volante which had a V8, but engine was taken from the 8c - only 7 cars were produced.

 

[plastic penguin]

I may be wrong but, in so far as I can find out, it is indeed a Ferrari built engine, principally for use by Maserati and, you are right about the cross-plane crank, rather than Ferrari's usual flat-plane crank.

EDIT: Autocar's Steve Sutcliffe taking one for a drive:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxdBcV0Fwak

It was a Maserati engine IIRC. Maserati were bought out by Ferrari when the launched the Maserati 3200 GT, no doubt those connections continued.

The Alfa Guilia Quadrifoglio has a 2.9 V6 90° engine based on the Ferrari V8 California. That was actually built by Alfa.

Nothing is ever simple with Alfa Romeo.

 

[DougK1]

The biggest production engine of an Alfa is V6. It does have a wonderful soundtrack. Real hairy chested brawn. That said, I prefer the V8 of a TVR - it sounds like a 1970s F1 car. Fabulous.

View: https://youtu.be/a3N36uSuZv8?si=4jVx8pfAE--42dej

Only two engine configurations which don't sound good to my ears, a single, and a parallel twin. Flat twins and V's sound great, triples have a distinctive rasp, tuned inline 4 pots can sound great on-cam. Favourite has to be V engine configs, especially a burbling V8 like the TVR or Jensen.

Pet hate is loud exhausts on smaller cc engines, can't understand the need as they generally sound pants and I'd prefer not to announce my arrival from miles away.

 

[plastic penguin]

Only two engine configurations which don't sound good to my ears, a single, and a parallel twin. Flat twins and V's sound great, triples have a distinctive rasp, tuned inline 4 pots can sound great on-cam. Favourite has to be V engine configs, especially a burbling V8 like the TVR or Jensen.

Pet hate is loud exhausts on smaller cc engines, can't understand the need as they generally sound pants and I'd prefer not to announce my arrival from miles away.

There is one exception. That's the Alfa 4c. It has a 1750 TBI engine, as fitted to the 159 and Brera but with a bigger turbo and intercooler, which took it from 7.8 secs 0-60 to 4 secs. Small engine, great soundtrack.

View: https://youtu.be/W522uJTplYE?si=7M0xvQ6olGSxtl0H

 

[DougK1]

There is one exception. That's the Alfa 4c. It has a 1750 TBI engine, as fitted to the 159 and Brera but with a bigger turbo and intercooler, which took it from 7.8 secs 0-60 to 4 secs. Small engine, great soundtrack.

View: https://youtu.be/W522uJTplYE?si=7M0xvQ6olGSxtl0H

Yeah but all Alfa's sound good regardless of configuration or displacement But that 4c sounds a bit pants on tick over, sounds much better further up the rev range.

 

[plastic penguin]

Yeah but all Alfa's sound good regardless of configuration or displacement But that 4c sounds a bit pants on tick over, sounds much better further up the rev range.

I know what you mean about yobbos with old Ford Fiesta L, they'll lower the suspension and put a chuffing great exhaust. They are so loud and pointless. There's one in our village with privacy glass, aftermarket wheels and exhaust. Laughable.

The most popular exhaust upgrades for Alfas are either Scorpion or Wizard, even though they sound great they are so loud living with one is another subject.

 

[plastic penguin]

On the 25th I drove Alfa GT 3.2. I'd forgotten what a beast it is drive, so quick. And the leather seats put brands like BMW to shame.

I'm sure Alfa are a little modest with their spec sheets. According to spec sheet the GT 3.2 does 0-60 in 6.7 secs, but feels a lot quicker. The same with my Sportwagon, that feels faster than 7.9 secs quoted.

 

[DougK1]

Have you ever been to Santa Pod PP to see top fuel dragsters in action?

 

[plastic penguin]

No. Drag racing doesn't appeal to me.

 

[DougK1]

No. Drag racing doesn't appeal to me.

That's a shame because I was once like you, blinkered and fanatical about performance figures for cars.

Watching the big guys at Santa Pod cured me as there is nothing like standing at the start line and feeling the raw power of 5-10,000 horsepower rip through your body, everything else pales into insignificance after this. After rocket sleds top-fuel dragsters are the fastest accelerating vehicle on the planet.

I started going in the late 70's and in '84 was fortunate enough to see the incredible Sammy Miller with his rocket powered funny car "Vanishing Point" set a record for a standing 1/4 mile - 3.58 seconds, 386 mph. He later improved with a 3.22sec/402mph, all from a standing start. Nothing on four or two wheels comes close for any kind of comparison.

These guys/gals are nuts/incredible, but the guys with the biggest kahunas are the top-fuel bikes, they get out of shape on the start line but never stop piling on the power.

You bang on about Alfa performance figures. I've got a little 600cc bike in the garage that's now classed as a sports-tourer, and I'm an old fart, but I'd take on any normally aspirated Alfa production vehicle over the 1/4 mile and all it would see is my tail pipes disappearing down the track. Figures mean nothing when you've witnessed real power.

 

[My2Cents]

Italian cars can be great when they actually work, but aren't new Alpha's just a fancy FIAT/Chrysler?
Either a 'dumbed down' Maserati or a 'souped up' Jeep depending on your point of view?

The 690T engine is not a Ferrari engine, it was a completely new design by Gianluca Pivetti (who did design the F154 engine).
However, who would want a Ferrari engine anyway? Ferrari's are notoriously unreliable!
I once had a boss who drove a new Porsche 911. His brother had a brand new Ferrari 328. I asked him why he didn't buy a Ferrari like his brother... he said "When I go out to the garage in the morning I want to know that my car is actually going to start".

 

[Friesiansam]

You bang on about Alfa performance figures. I've got a little 600cc bike in the garage that's now classed as a sports-tourer, and I'm an old fart, but I'd take on any normally aspirated Alfa production vehicle over the 1/4 mile and all it would see is my tail pipes disappearing down the track. Figures mean nothing when you've witnessed real power.

High power and lightweight, is where it's at.

I used to go to the Weston Speed Trials, at Weston Super Mare along the seafront, not far from where I grew up. The last time I went there were 2 stand-out cars, both open wheel racers. One was big and had a hefty, supercharged Chevy V8, with a lot of grunt but, not light. The other was smaller, lighter and powered by a 3 litre Cosworth DFV.

The Chevy powered car had trouble getting all that torque down, the lightweight, high revving DFV powered car, stormed away with it, easily.

I think the event came to an end in around 1990, due to rising costs.

 

[Friesiansam]

To my ears, nothing sounds better than a V10 being given some welly:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcVHmv43f-s&list=PL05PNNNHUr1nzdHVR9DntmdBubzNt52lG&index=1

 

[plastic penguin]

Italian cars can be great when they actually work, but aren't new Alpha's just a fancy FIAT/Chrysler?
Either a 'dumbed down' Maserati or a 'souped up' Jeep depending on your point of view?

The 690T engine is not a Ferrari engine, it was a completely new design by Gianluca Pivetti (who did design the F154 engine).
However, who would want a Ferrari engine anyway? Ferrari's are notoriously unreliable!
I once had a boss who drove a new Porsche 911. His brother had a brand new Ferrari 328. I asked him why he didn't buy a Ferrari like his brother... he said "When I go out to the garage in the morning I want to know that my car is actually going to start".

Nope, not a rebadged Fiat, Chrysler or souped up Jeep. My 156 is based on a Fiat Tipo platform, but the driving experience could not be different.

And it's Alfa not Alpha. Originally they were just Romeo but later 'Anonma Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili' or Alfa.

 

[My2Cents]

"but feels a lot quicker"

Sounds like the Alfa is good at converting horse power to noise and heat.
My brother has an '08 VW R32, that feels pretty quick too, but then again, it IS pretty quick.
One of my coworkers has a Tesla S that will make 60 in 3 secs... leaving pretty much anything in the dust (and it's not the fastest S you can buy). If you want pure acceleration electric is the way to go, but where on the Kings Highway can you even use all that power? You just get to the next traffic jam quicker?

 

[DougK1]

One of my coworkers has a Tesla S that will make 60 in 3 secs... leaving pretty much anything in the dust (and it's not the fastest S you can buy). If you want pure acceleration electric is the way to go, but where on the Kings Highway can you even use all that power? You just get to the next traffic jam quicker?

And sounds like a milk float on steroids, where's the soundtrack to stir your soul?

 

[plastic penguin]

Sounds like the Alfa is good at converting horse power to noise and heat.
My brother has an '08 VW R32, that feels pretty quick too, but then again, it IS pretty quick.
One of my coworkers has a Tesla S that will make 60 in 3 secs... leaving pretty much anything in the dust (and it's not the fastest S you can buy). If you want pure acceleration electric is the way to go, but where on the Kings Highway can you even use all that power? You just get to the next traffic jam quicker?

Apparently the 3.2 Busso engine is quicker than the Golf R32 and the first generation Focus RS, although I've never driven either the RS or R32.

For me it isn't just about power but how a car makes you feel. One reason I would never buy a Tesla - very fast but a numb feeling.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Italian cars can be great when they actually work, but aren't new Alpha's just a fancy FIAT/Chrysler?
Either a 'dumbed down' Maserati or a 'souped up' Jeep depending on your point of view?

Try reading reviews of the Guilia and Stelvio. Alfa's in better shape than it has been for decades - at least in critical terms.

 

[plastic penguin]

The Guilia Cloverleaf (Quadrifoglio) won performance car of the year several times, as well as holding the record time for the Nurburgring.

In 2020 the Giulietta came 2nd from top in What Car? Owner satisfaction survey.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

The Guilia Cloverleaf (Quadrifoglio) won performance car of the year several times, as well as holding the record time for the Nurburgring.

The Giulia is still more than holding its own years after launch - I'd definitely prefer 4wd with that much grunt, but that says more about me than the Alfa. Probably truer to say it held 'a' (Rather than 'the') Nürburgring lap record - there are many categories, some of which it wouldn't be able to compete with.

 

[My2Cents]

The Guilia Cloverleaf (Quadrifoglio) won performance car of the year several times, as well as holding the record time for the Nurburgring.

In 2020 the Giulietta came 2nd from top in What Car? Owner satisfaction survey.

Hmmm, I don't believe that to be true. Currently the fastest Alfa is the Giulia QV which is 98th on the list of fastest Nürburgring times. Perhaps it was the fastest in the 'family saloon' category.
Alfa front ends look ugly, like a gaping female body part stuck in the center (the Ford Edsel comes to mind).
I guess each to his/her own.

 

[plastic penguin]

The Giulia is still more than holding its own years after launch - I'd definitely prefer 4wd with that much grunt, but that says more about me than the Alfa. Probably truer to say it held 'a' (Rather than 'the') Nürburgring lap record - there are many categories, some of which it wouldn't be able to compete with.

The latest 2024 version has an upgraded engine 0-62 in 3.7 from a sluggish 3.9 secs.

 

[Friesiansam]

Hmmm, I don't believe that to be true. Currently the fastest Alfa is the Giulia QV which is 98th on the list of fastest Nürburgring times. Perhaps it was the fastest in the 'family saloon' category.

Why shouldn't it be true, there are numerous different categories?

 

[plastic penguin]

Hmmm, I don't believe that to be true. Currently the fastest Alfa is the Giulia QV which is 98th on the list of fastest Nürburgring times. Perhaps it was the fastest in the 'family saloon' category.
Alfa front ends look ugly, like a gaping female body part stuck in the center (the Ford Edsel comes to mind).
I guess each to his/her own.

Sorry to disappoint you but it is true.

https://www.motor1.com/news/97954/alfa-giulia-nurburgring-lap-record/#:~:text=Records%20on%20the%20Nurburgring%20Nordschleife,of%207%20mins%2032%20secs.

Used Car of the Year Awards 2021: Performance cars

With demand for used cars on the rise, you’ll want to know which are the best buys. That’s where our annual Used Car Awards come in. These are our favourite performance cars

www.whatcar.com

 

[Friesiansam]

Sorry to disappoint you but it is true.

https://www.motor1.com/news/97954/alfa-giulia-nurburgring-lap-record/#:~:text=Records%20on%20the%20Nurburgring%20Nordschleife,of%207%20mins%2032%20secs.

Used Car of the Year Awards 2021: Performance cars

With demand for used cars on the rise, you’ll want to know which are the best buys. That’s where our annual Used Car Awards come in. These are our favourite performance cars

www.whatcar.com

Since then the Jaguar XE SV Project 8 has gone even faster, although it is less of a road car. I believe, though not certain, that the Jag still holds the 4-door saloon record.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/361626/jaguar-xesv-project8-new-nurburgring-record/