The Apex Club

[ric71]

Hey Ricky.

You never know re the thread. I will def post the comparisons between the Apex And MK's. As fantastic as the Apex are I am expecting a big step up in an already brilliant performance as the MK's cost 4 x as much. Ouch!!!

i will be keeping my Sub15 as its so good and I am now officially broke!!!

Will post soon

 

[jcshutts]

Hi know this isn't a MK thread but am considering a 7.1 in MK or possibly the latest KK range so very interested to hear your experiences.

 

[ric71]

It will be a pleasure. The new KK's look fantastic btw.

 

[ric71]

Hi all,

I am now the proud owner of MK S150MKII's LCR and a pair of MK S150T's for surrounds.

I said I would post my findings describing the differences between the MK's and the Apex.

I can't ,as brilliant as the Apex are there is no fair way to compare the two. I still love the Apex but the MK's are in a different league entirely,and at £800 a speaker more,so they should be.

BTW the MKII's with the new pro tweeters play music as well if not better than many high end hi if speakers.

They look bloody awful though compared to the Apex.

Let me know if you want more info.

Will still follow this thread.

 

[jcshutts]

It's a helpful update for me and thanks for reporting back like you said you would. I am just waiting now for a general flavour on the KK range although views and comparisons may take a time or not come at all! I am sure each are equally brilliant. I am a little put off with the MK looks though if I'm honest!!! I am sure they look better in the flesh than they do in the photos!!! I hope you continue to enjoy hugely.

Can I ask your room dimensions and whether the 5.1 set up is easily sufficient as opposed to 7.1?

 

[ric71]

A pleasure.

My room dimensions are approx 4m x 3.5m with a bay window. The room is in the seating area of a Victorian terrace lounge dining room knock through. The other half of the room has the dining table. Ceilings about 3m high.

I don't need more than 5.1 as sofa up against bank wall. Tripole's mounted to immediate sides about 3 feet above head height.

The MK's are not pretty no,yes the KK's looked more conventional sort of but still not beauties.

Its the sound that amazes though.

 

[ellisdj]

Rich are you using the acoustic panel I made you ?

 

[ric71]

I'm going to give it a go next week when I set the centre up. :dance:

 

[RickyDeg]

Interesting feedback! Hope you'll be happy with your Apex replacements, even if they look terrible! 😉

Good thing you have that Statement amp huh? I'm betting those MK really make the most of it, just like Apex did, though I'm sure the reward is larger here with those speakers cosidering their price.

 

[ric71]

Hey Ricky, Yes the Statement amp is now being used to its full potential. Try and get a demo of the S150MKII's 8)

 

[MMW]

Just an update of my system specially aimed to RickyDeg. Right now I added a Denon 4520/3313 combo plus a new B&W PV1D subwoofer to my Apex system and... What a difference! The sound it's unbelievable trasparent, involving and utterly spectacular! You were right! I'm a DynamicEQ believer!

I've tried the 4520 with some blurays players and in my experience the 4520 it's not "completed" unless you use the 3313 player with the Denon link engaged. The difference between the 4520 with the 3313 and with some sony and panasonic players I've tried with the Denon it's astonishing. The sound with the 3313 denon lined to the 4520 it's completely transparent, powerful, incredibly rich in detail and VERY VERY involving. An expensive purchase but I'm totally happy with it. I heartily recommend to anyone owning an Apex system gives the Denon combo a try. A match really made in audiophile/videophile heaven. I'm EXTREMELY happy.

:cheer: :bounce: :dance: :cheers:

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey MMV :wave: That is awesome to hear! Thanks for the excellent feedback! Glad you are getting great things from your Apex package now with that Denon combo. Glad to hear you are digging the 3313 aswell, I'm thinking their synnergy is noticable. Oh, and I'm guessing you have a different take on the 4520 than WHF's own recent 4/5 star review?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/denon-avr-4520 :roll:

They chose not to utilize Audyssey at all and say the 4520 lacks a bit of 'attack' and 'excitement', whereas all other reviews I've read so far say the opposite. Feels a bit like WHF has lost some of their credibility I think. Then again, like I say in my comments to their review it's just their opinion of their experience with it. Keep us posted with more Apex + Denon details down the line!

 

[MMW]

and say the 4520 lacks a bit of 'attack' and 'excitement', whereas all other reviews I've read so far say the opposite.

As you surely already know I owned a RX-A3020 paired with the Apex and let me tell you the 4520/3313 combo it's more detailed, dynamic and gives all the excitement when paired to the Apex I was looking for. The only caveat about the 4520 it's that REALLY needs the 3313 to gives all the sonic goods the 4520 has inside . The difference without and with the 3313 it's BIG. I feel the Yamaha as not so dependant of the source as the Denon is but if you go for the 4520/3313 combo then it's simply more exciting, natural, involving (a traditional strengh of the Yammy receivers and a big surprise to me to be bettered by the Denon) and at last spectacular sounding than the Yammy (believe me, the difference is far from be subtle).

The more I listened to my system the happier I am. Everything sounds sooooo good. In fact there are some blurays I felt kinda "flat" sounding that now sounds totally transformed. Lack of excitement??? :rofl:

 

[gosalh]

Hi MMW, interesting feedback about the Denon!! Im tempted to get a demo now lol. Always looking for ways to get the best sound out of the Apex. I think the Denon receivers partner well with the Apex. They sound warmer to my ears than other receivers i have tested. Im using an Oppo 95 with my Denon AVR A100, i am pretty impressed with the combination. Not sure if anyone on this thread is using an Oppo 95 or 93 with their Apex? Any feedback? Hey Ricky you own an Oppo 93 right?

Btw I watched Gladiator on bluray (the decent quality version) last weekend, and it sounded AMMMAAAZZZING through the Apex!!! One of the best sounding Blurays i own now.

MMW you should really consider investing in 2x subwoofers as well if you can budget for it. I purchased an additional AW12 last year and would never look back - it improved the soundstage significantly. I also added some A10 height speakers to increase the soundstage. Everytime i watch a movie i feel (at least imagine) i'm at an IMAX lol.

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey gosalh :wave: Nice to have you popping in! Hows the little one doing?

Nice that you've gotten the Oppo BDP-95, I have the 93 model which I got in 2011. It's a good one, though I'm not overly impressed. Sometimes it's a little quirky, and I wish it would let me completely separate audio and video in the dual HDMI's, but it's not really the case (not like the Denon 3313 does, anyway). Minor details. It's not a bad player by any means but I do miss the synnergy of the Denon 2500BT I use to have with my receiver. Although that tank of a machine is way too slow to load discs! haha This is why I also suspect that the 4520 with 3313 could be a great combo. Glad you are really enjoying your kick-ass 7.2 Apex! I hear someone else around here just moved along to M&K...

:roll: hahaha j/k

 

[ric71]

Who might that be?

 

[greedy]

Hey MMV :wave: That is awesome to hear! Thanks for the excellent feedback! Glad you are getting great things from your Apex package now with that Denon combo. Glad to hear you are digging the 3313 aswell, I'm thinking their synnergy is noticable. Oh, and I'm guessing you have a different take on the 4520 than WHF's own recent 4/5 star review?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/denon-avr-4520 :roll:

They chose not to utilize Audyssey at all and say the 4520 lacks a bit of 'attack' and 'excitement', whereas all other reviews I've read so far say the opposite. Feels a bit like WHF has lost some of their credibility I think. Then again, like I say in my comments to their review it's just their opinion of their experience with it. Keep us posted with more Apex + Denon details down the line!

Hi, Ricky.Do you know why Denon never gets 5 stars from what hi-fi?Because Denon is not Pioneer and is not Onkyo.To review receiver without Audyssey engaged is insane in my opionion.Because all receivers are only amps without room corection systems..I am very happy with my AVR-4311, it blow Lx-83 away..

 

[Frank Harvey]

To review receiver without Audyssey engaged is insane in my opionion.Because all receivers are only amps without room corection systems..

Why is not using the onboard EQ "insane"? Doing this tells you a lot about the quality of the basic product itself. Room EQ is an additional product that ensures you're getting the best results from that product in that room, but tells you nothing of how good the actual product is. You'd be surprised at the difference between products when room EQ isn't used....

Just because a product has what is classed as a top notch room EQ onboard, it doesn't mean that the product itself is worth the asking price.

 

[greedy]

Most people use their receivers with Audyssey ON.So i think, it doesnt matter how it sounds without Audyssey engaged.This is not a stereo amp.

You may have a look how the audio/video equipment can be reviewed( this is about avr-4311, but doesnt matter).You can use google translator if you want http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2010/denon_avr_4311.shtml

 

[michael hoy]

I think David's comment is a fair point. I used to run my Denon without the processing turned on, different house to where i am now though.

 

[greedy]

I think David's comment is a fair point. I used to run my Denon without the processing turned on, different house to where i am now though.

Hi, michael.And you running your Pioneer with mcacc ON 🙂 Yes?

 

[michael hoy]

Yes, I am.

This house is not as cinema friendly as my previous one, and does need some room correction (see the link in my sig).

I do run it in direct mode, so no DSP effects, it is the Dynamic EQ on the Denon I do not like.

I do agree with David that to hear how an amp sounds, listen to it with no processing etc going on.

Then use whatever means to correct the room.

 

[greedy]

Ok, there is What hi-fi deal, to test without Audyssey or with.I think they must test all receivers with the same rules- with correction or without..Then will be the same chances to all brands..But most reviewers test receivers with Room corection systems engaged..for example- http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/denon-avr-4311-review/9994

http://www.hometheater.com/content/anthem-mrx-300-av-receiver-page-2

And in most cases, manufacturer recommends to use room corection system..

 

[RickyDeg]

It could definitely be a good idea to test an amp without using the room correction, DSP or other trickery... aswell. Why not? But, I am equally interested in hearing/reading about the amp with those features. When it comes down to it it's simply the end result of what you've got available that's important. And if room correction, EQ, DSP or other trickery works as a benefit due to your room (and taste) together with the amps already existing capabilites and qualities I see no reason for debate.

I myself couldn't manage without Audyssey's Dynamic EQ. Honestly, everything I've tried without it sounds pretty bland to my ears (this is mostly for movies though, music can be a different matter). Apart from my own tests at home I've heard quite a few set-ups now in well treated demo rooms with amps that don't feature Audyssey Dynamic EQ and they've absolutely been ok (Yamaha, Harman Kardon, Pioneer, Rotel, Primare). But as soon as they switch to an amp that has it - *BOOM* - everything falls into place. I experience exactly the same in my home.

I think this is because Dynamic EQ is more than just any old equalizer - it's an automatic loudness feature that very effectively balance the sound from every speaker without sounding artificial or bloated (IMO). It brings out the smallest of detail and engrosses you with a myriad of sound without letting any one speaker "take over". All that at normal listening levels that I, thus far, find hard to replace with anything else. I mean, for example, when I tested the Pioneer SC-LX83 and 85 they came off as terribly front-heavy and a little 'flat' duing movie watching. The surrounds were very subdued. I put the Denon and Dynamic EQ back in place and the difference truly was huge, but not in a distracting way. I think if one likes Dynamic EQ and gets use to it (in the positive sense) it can be difficult switching to something that doesn't have it. In my experience anyway.

 

[ellisdj]

Ok, there is What hi-fi deal, to test without Audyssey or with.I think they must test all receivers with the same rules- with correction or without..Then will be the same chances to all brands..But most reviewers test receivers with Room corection systems engaged..for example- http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/denon-avr-4311-review/9994

http://www.hometheater.com/content/anthem-mrx-300-av-receiver-page-2

And in most cases, manufacturer recommends to use room corection system..

That first review hints at what would be better performance for the Denon AV receiver - EQ off - but his room wont let him do it so its obviously not treated. Therefore the room correction is the secondary option

The Room Correction System is trying to correct for the physics of soundwaves in the room - the soundwaves are still there with EQ - still smearing the sound you should be getting

Take the room away and the correction system is not needed - at the same time the correction system does not to my knowledge take the room away - all it does is reduce or try to boost some of the most extreme effects but at a cost

Take the room away - the system will sound its best Fact! (some subs excempt) - therefore in a treated room Room Correction is not needed as the system is already sounding its best - as in the WHF test room - therefore the EQ system will only make the kit sound worse.

Why does music never sound good EQ'd ...... Then why would a movie sound track sound better EQ'd

Off topic but this is a very good video to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLVjHfHahg