The Apex Club

[RickyDeg]

I use Audyssey MUltEQXT32 and it crossed my front Apex to 90hz, center to 60hz and surrounds to 60hz.Is it normal?

In one way yes, greedy, it is "normal" for Audyssey to do that. If the calibration is carried out correctly crossovers will be set depending on how the speakers actually perform in your particular room. You may find that if you rearrange speaker positions or change something in your room and then run a new calibration that the crossover settings may change. It simply has to do with in-room response, nothing else. It disregards any specified frequency set by the manufacturer because that seldom has any meaning in a real situation such as a livingroom.

Audyssey tends to suggest leaving the crossovers as the calibration sets them and not change anything, but I think that is up for personal preference. My Apex are set to 60Hz during calibrations but I manually tweak it upwards to 80Hz simply because it sounds better to my ears. Just make sure you DON'T tweak any crossovers lower than what Audyssey has because any frequency under has not been compensated for. I believe there is more info on their website.

You know what else though? I suspect Audyssey Pro might provide a big advantage in this area thanks to the more advanced microphone. It will likely bring way more accuracy into the equation.

 

[gunny]

sorry RickyDeg, I haven't as I don't realy need that kind of power. I also risk hearing something which I could learn to "love", leaving me with a dilemma of needing even more money to clench the AV hunger :shifty:

The wife agreed that I could replace my B&W 603 S3's with an Apex surround set and a sub "as long as it integrates in the interieur", so if I now start listening to stuff that's way out of my price range and get a taste for it, I'd probably be in trouble if you know what I mean :help: :shhh:

 

[Chord_Freak]

Keep in mind that I did NOT test the actual AV amps, but tested with stereo amps that boast the same power levels as their AV brothers.

This seems like an odd test, that won't really tell the full picture if you were to buy the AV version of the stereo amp. Is there a reason you couldn't test the actual AV amps as opposed to the stereo amps?

In my experience a stereo amp rated at the same output as an AV amp is still going to sound much better than the AV amp - it's not all about the power figures and most AV amps rated at 140w rms etc are only with 2 channels driven and this figure drops considerably when all channels are used - thats' why a £300 stereo amp can sound much better than a £1200 AV amp being used in stereo mode.

 

[gunny]

although it might seem as a strange test, my main goal was to get a sense of the "color" these brands put into their amps, and also to confirm the rumor that a NAD focuses on the ability to produce sound, where the others also focus on this, but spend part of the R&D budget for additional features.

Not sure I follow the comment about the power figures.

I listened to them in stereo and do understand that with the default brands the power output will drop away from the quoted output, but this is NOT the case with the NAD as they rate their power output with all channels driven and with full frequency applied instead of the 1kHz.

But these facts aside, as I mentioned, I wanted to get a feel about the difference in sound the companies apply to their amps, and that was an eye opener to say the least.

Again, I understand that it might not be a one to one comparison with their AV amps, but I like to believe that the sound qualities would be applied to all of their amps, not just their proper stereo amps.

The reason why I didn't listen to the different AV amps was that it was easier to switch between the stereo amps, as the apex demo room was set up with a Denon, but if they would need to switch between the different AV amps, it would have taken more time than I had available at that time. Be sure that once the time comes to purchase a new AV the same test will be repeated with the AV amps that time, but at the moment I just wanted to have an idea on the brands in combination with the Apex's.

Edit: Also keep in mind that I'm currently listening to movies or music through a simple 2.1 setup (2x A10 and 1x BK XXLS400), so for me it was a rather useful test

 

[greedy]

Thanks Ricky.Another strange thing, that Audyssey set my subwoofer to -0.4db and i cant understand why.Maybe in one of calibration( listening) positions i put tripod with mic to close( aprox 0.7m to sub)?My room is not very big and i measure 3 listening positions on the sofa, one position on the seat, and all another position measured closer to speakers..i set my sub +7.5db manually, and now i think its ok...maybe, when i do my Audyssey setup next time, try to put tripod more far from speakers?

 

[RickyDeg]

Thanks Ricky.Another strange thing, that Audyssey set my subwoofer to -0.4db and i cant understand why.Maybe in one of calibration( listening) positions i put tripod with mic to close( aprox 0.7m to sub)?My room is not very big and i measure 3 listening positions on the sofa, one position on the seat, and all another position measured closer to speakers..i set my sub +7.5db manually, and now i think its ok...maybe, when i do my Audyssey setup next time, try to put tripod more far from speakers?

Again I would advice to read up on Audyssey on their website. They give valuable tips that could pay off if you follow them. My own calibrations have done strange subwoofer settings sometimes too, and there could be a million different reasons (the interaction with the room, or maybe bad microphone positioning). Does your Denon model have a subwoofer pre-calibration in XT32 before the full calibration? When testing the Onkyo TX-NR5009 one first had to make an individual calibration on just the subwoofer before moving on to anything else. I think that made a difference in my case. That function does not exist in the simpler XT (which is partly why I miss XT32).

Then, as always, you should definitely run the full 8-point calibration! It doesn't matter if you have a small room (nor does it have anything to do with the number of seats). If you find Audysseys website a hassle you could always watch this excellent calibration video that give you useful tips (primarily on microphone positioning). Just pay close attention and try it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okyNlhJ3Hvo

Alternatively, this post/thread on AVSFORUM.com is very informative:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993

 

[greedy]

Thanks Ricky for reply,read Audyssey website yesterday and understood, that allmost all what i done in calibration was wrong.My measured posiotion were to far one from another, and to close to speakers and subwoofer.I will do calibration like in Audyssey website.In Denon manual is not very good described about positions.My Denon has "subwoofer precalibration"- then i need adjust subwoofer volume knob and it must be about 75db..I think in Onkyo the same?

 

[RickyDeg]

Terrific greedy - yes, the Onkyo (I think with XT32 in general) you adjust the subwoofer to 75db pressure level with a dedicated test tone. It worked particularly well with my dual AW-12's.

BTW, I hope you watched that video also? I've followed lots of these tips closely myself (microphone positions first of all) and it has given great results and made a difference with Apex. I agree that user manuals of receivers seldom describe this whole procedure in depth (they seem lazy about it actually). Audyssey themselves naturally do a much better job informing and explaining.

Best of luck & keep us posted

 

[greedy]

Ricky> i watched that video, thank you very much.i will post about Audyssey Pro calibration results when i get it.My friend also has avr-4311, but with Focal Electra speakers..we will buy one Audyssey Pro for us together..Ricky, what is level your subwoofer set by Audyssey?Mine set to minus 0.4db...

 

[RickyDeg]

Well greedy since I got two AW-12's and XT can only calibrate for a single unit it's a challenge. Initially I set the volumeknob on both units to about 1/4:th and then Audyssey calculates -6db (taking them both into account as a single unit). I then manually tweak the volumeknobs after running the calibration (which wasn't necessary with XT32). One of them is placed in a corner and automatically gets a "boost" so I have to adjust it's volume slightly. It turns out fine, though not as good as with XT32. But with dual subwoofers and no individual calibration I'm forcced to tweak.

Hope you get brilliant results once you do some serious calibration!

Oh, and I may get the Onkyo TX-NR5010 for testing in a few weeks :O

BTW, wonder where gosalh went? He bought his second AW-12 but we never got any feedback

 

[greedy]

Great news, Ricky..Hope to see your review about thatOnkyo monster Maybe Gosalh was knockout by his new second aw-12..bang.. :rofl:

 

[paulbroke]

Hi everyone,

My last 7.1 setup has finished

 

[gosalh]

Hi Ricky, ric71, greedy (and everyone else)

Im back on the thread. Unfortunately I've been away and side tracked from normal life. 2012 has been a crappy year....lost both of my parents, one to cancer and the other from a broken heart

Anyway i've got some pics of my new setup with the 2x AW12 which i'll post up tonight. I even installed mood lighting behind my equipment to set it off

Hope you're all well.

Cheers

 

[gunny]

My sincere condolences to you and your family gosalh.

I still have the good fortune of having both of my parents alive and well, but have lost several family members to cancer so do know how it feels (up to a certain point).

Cherish the good and happy memories and the stuff they've thaught you; that way they are always close by.

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey paulbroke - GREAT - thanks for showing us! Nice photos! A real 7.1 system! Been ages since I listened to a system with those back surround channels. How is it working out for you? All that's missing now is front heights and a second AW-12.

I see you've added front wall/corner acoustic panels? Did you notice an improvement? I'm looking into this myself right now. What brand/kind are yours? BTW; did you experiment with moving the A40 center to the edge of your A/V cabinet to get rid of that extra baffle created in front of it? I have a vague memory we spoke of that before, not sure...

 

[RickyDeg]

Hi Ricky, ric71, greedy (and everyone else)

Im back on the thread. Unfortunately I've been away and side tracked from normal life. 2012 has been a crappy year....lost both of my parents, one to cancer and the other from a broken heart

Anyway i've got some pics of my new setup with the 2x AW12 which i'll post up tonight. I even installed mood lighting behind my equipment to set it off

Hope you're all well.

Cheers

Oy, gosalh, that's so sad to hear!

At the very least you got your home entertainment center if you need some escapism (god knows we all do from time to time, right?). Your "absence" is perfectly understandable, besides it hasn't really been that long. Just that we love to hear from ya! Looking forward to your photos and feedback! Mood lighting? Sounds awesome! I'm envious already...

All the best to you! Take care!

 

[gosalh]

Thank you so much for the kind words gunny!

 

[gosalh]

Yo Ricky, thanks man and good to chat with you again. Yep will post up my new pics this evening. Cheers

 

[paulbroke]

Hi RickyDeg

7.1 is absolutely better for me than 5.1 setup. Expecially on 7.1 HD sound, it is just awesome :clap:

I have used "Vicoustic visquare premium" panels for reflection control. The result is; more define and clearer sound

 

[gosalh]

Ok here goes, not the best pics I took these photos on my tablet, everything looks out of alignment to me for some reason and not symmetrical (even though it is, measured down to the mm - slight OCD), may be due to the graininess and lighting...but you get the idea. The mood lighting changes colour and has different modes and a little credit card size remote to control them, not bad for £25. There's also a glimpse of the Oppo 95 and Denon AVR A100.

In terms of the additional AW12, i have to say the dynamics have changed yet again. I love the second sub and it has added extra punch in the entire system. I spent all weekend trying out bluray movies and retrying movies i had seen without the second sub and it sounds far better to my ears than before. Very happy with the heights and additional sub.

 

[RickyDeg]

You know gosalh, your extended set-up is looking mighty fine! Thanks for making the effort with the pix! Don't you just love the look of two AW-12's in the front like that?! I certainly dig it. Wish I could place mine like that also, but my decor won't allow it. Looks are nice, but of course it's the end-result with the sound that's gotta rock! Glad you are happy with your investment after all the time you spent setting this up! I need to stop by when I'm in England next time for a little demo! Haha!

Oh, and that mood lighting is a very nice touch. Mind if I copy you?

Also, which 'height' mode do you use mostly? DSX or PLIIz?

 

[greedy]

Gosalh, very sad to hear that.Be strong.Gosalh and paulbroke - awesome setups, i like it very much

 

[gosalh]

Hey Ricky,

Yeah get some mood lighting it will go with your contemporary decor and setup, i got mine from these guys http://www.ledee.co.uk/

You're welcome to pop over for a demo if you're in England. Likewise i was supposed to contact Ric71 as well but all hell broke out loose with the tragedy at home.

In terms of the height mode, i mostly use DSX as its more noticable than PllZ. Sounds awesome!! Highly recommend it, makes the sound stage much larger.

 

[gosalh]

Thanks for the kind words Greedy

 

[ric71]

Hey gosalh,

so sorry to hear your sad news. I wish you and your family happier times. I too nearly lost both parents in the last couple of years.

I knew something was up when we didn't hear back from you. Moving on to happier things, your system looks great. Two subs IMO are always better if done properly. Bet it sounds wicked.

Just look me up on AVFORUMS as richmagnus and give me a shout when you have a spare minute.

Take care