The Apex Club

[greedy]

For all Audyssey users- maybe someone want to use Audyssey Pro Calibration Kit, i would go for it!

RickyDeG, you may inspire new life to your trusty 3808This thing is much better than Multeqxt32.

Can read here
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread/3030#post_22429521 http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/audio-processing/46130-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-demystified.html

 

[RickyDeg]

Greedy, did you change your post above?!? Earlier I saw it was a reply to Michael Hoy (?).

Yes, I've read-up on Audyssey Pro calibration. However I would not bother with that until I have updated to XT32 because the result of Pro calibration will be based upon the receivers existing Audyssey version. A Pro calibration with XT32 will be better than a Pro calibration with XT.

You could certainly try it with your Denon though

Right now I'm keeping an eye out for Marantz up-coming high-end processor AV8801, which would be interesting to pair with a suitable powerhouse from NuForce. But won't be until first quater next year. Then possibly Audyssey Pro. Can't wait to see what Apex will make of all of that!

 

[greedy]

Michael Hoy> can you tweak your Pioneer manualy- range lower than 63hz?I think it's not posible

Ricky Deg> yes, i changed my post.You right results depends on base multeq system..Marantz?interesting

 

[ric71]

XT32 will outperform the XT Pro kit. Ricky you are right to wait for a receiver with XT32 and then consider XT32 Pro kit.

 

[RickyDeg]

Sorry greedy, only reason I asked was your question on the low frequency issue of the Pioneer was interesting! Oh yes, the Marantz AV8801 processor looks promising. I have fond memories of Marantz wonderful musicality.

Way too little info about it online as of yet though apart from XT32 of course.

 

[holywoodcowboy]

Guys, been enjoying my APEX setup now for just over a year and a half, and I'm still extremely impressed by it. I made my purchase after reading/researching for a decent AV setup to blow my cash on. I came across this thread in Feb '11, and after the great advise from the original founders and member's (you know who you are) I took decision on the APEX/Yamaha system. It is the only AV kit I have ever owed, and the best I've heard in its class. So 1.5 years on I am still a keen follower of the forum, and catch up with it every now and then. I'm now looking more great advice from you guys. Since taking the plunge into 5.1 I'm no longer interested in stereo, but I still want fantastic CD playback. I'm looking for advise on wether or not it is worth my while upgrading my bluray to oppo, in doing so getting good bluray and good CD playback, or spending the same amount of money on an award winning CD player. My goal is fantastic CD playback in multi channel. Your advice is greatly appreciated Cheers, cowboy

 

[Julian_b]

Hi Holywoodcowboy - great choice of receiver and speakers you have there

I also much prefer CD/Music in 5.1 surround now too. My comments below don't directly address your request but hope adds some context to consider.

As you can see from my signature I have an Oppo which even as the 'older' 83 model plays CD's very well - the reveiws now rave about the current 95 DAC enabled model for it's sound quality.

I considered whether to upgrade my Oppo 83 to the 95, but having looked at the Wolfson DAC's already onboard the Yamaha RX V3067 wondered whether there was much benefit to that upgrade, so felt I would use the receivers DAC's for multichannel sound as that was what they were set up to deliver. I think the sound delivered is excellent by the way - so thoroughly recommend the Oppo/Yamaha/Apex combo. Given I'm only using the Oppo's CD as 'transport' I don't know if that's better than what you have already.

Never been in a position to test how much the new Oppo 95 (or such like) or a high spec dedicated CD player for that matter would have improved the sound quality through the Yamaha/Apex.

I decided on spending my money on the Vortexbox Appliance 2 TB instead which is another direction to go (great sound quality) and another story....

Hope the context is of help.

 

[atkins4725]

I was in a similar position about a week ago. I took home the CA 751 and from the first track (which was from a nickleback album) i was seriously taken back. Never before had i heard so much detail, attack & seperation in that album. Every chance i get i'm putting cd's in to the 751bd to have a listen.

 

[holywoodcowboy]

Cheers for the info guys. The oppo and CA 751 seem like great solutions to an all in one player. I take it then that I let the multi channel dacs on the Yamaha handle the sound from either of these machines over HDMI? Can't wait to here the APEX sing with decent CD play back. Have had friends in to watch movies, and they have been truely blown away by the APEX/Yamaha set up. Had a look at the Vorta kit, looks very interesting indeed! Maybe something for a future purchase Cheers, cowboy

 

[atkins4725]

Thats one way. Personally, i use the dedicated 2 channel analogue outs and set everything to pure direct, sounds very nice indeed.

I purchased the apex based on reviews and comments from this thread and to be honest i wasn't all that impressed for the first couple of seek, almost sent it back to the supplier. It wasn't until recently that started to really hear the apex. Maybe it just needed a lenghty warming up :-D

Love my setup now for both music and movies.

 

[Anonymous]

hi all,

Another Apex member signing in 2 weeks ago I got my new reciever and speakers installed and set up. The total went over budget but I haven't regret it for a moment. It's such a great set! The clearness, detail and punch.. I love it! Such a well balanced soundscape, even with the 'lower class' reciever (saving for an upgrade there in a couple of years).

Pictures will follow when the wiring is properly done. 8)

 

[Chord_Freak]

Guys, when listening to CD's in 5.1 what decoding mode do you use - there's so many and they all sound different! I decided to buy a second-hand Cyrus CD7Q (upgraded Q DACS) to play my CD's but still find 2channel stereo sounds better than any of the 5.1 modes - am I missing something? What's the difference between 7channel stereo and the neo 6 surround modes?

 

[RickyDeg]

Guys, when listening to CD's in 5.1 what decoding mode do you use - there's so many and they all sound different! I decided to buy a second-hand Cyrus CD7Q (upgraded Q DACS) to play my CD's but still find 2channel stereo sounds better than any of the 5.1 modes - am I missing something? What's the difference between 7channel stereo and the neo 6 surround modes?

I'm using 'Multichannel Stereo' on my Denon. Regular 2-channel simply sounds dull in my case. I want the music to fill the entire room. I have tweaked the mode so the centerchannel is silent. Basically stereo in the front and stereo in the back. It does the trick quite well without sounding gimmicky or overblown. I'm sure your Yamaha must have the ability to tweak it's 7channel stereo mode to your liking aswell. The whole idea with a mode like this is to find balance. But if plain old 2-channel sounds good for you then why bother? It is the more accurate route to go, after all, and what most people seem to prefer.

The difference between DTS Neo 6 Music and a 'Multichannel Stereo' mode is that the latter simply sends the same stereo signal more-or-less untouched to all connected speakers (duplicating the signal), while the former is a sort of psuedo-surround mode that extracts cues and ambience in the recorded music and places them in the appropriate speakers to create an effect. If it sounds natural or not only you can decide. I think the end result varies alot between material.

 

[greedy]

In my opinion , for good stereo listening floorstanders are needed ( or higher end standmounters).Apex are to small to produce good stereo from only 2 speakers.Most receivers cross Apex to 80hz, so must play subwoofer for good bass weight.Two Apex speaker alone are to weak sounding for me.So i always use MULTICHANNEL STEREO mode with my Denon, when all channels are playing with subwoofer- there is another league....TRy it:rockout: AC/DC "Higway to hell"

Ricky> i'm very happy with my avr-4311 - this is a beast.I think i'll get Audyssey Pro for Christmas:bounce:

 

[ric71]

I have never listened in stereo. For the last 20 years I only use surround. My favourite was Logic7 through my Lexicon DC2. I have found that if you calibrate a system properly it really does work. I now use PL2 music with my Anthem which I know isn't for everyone. This is why I run sub sat as music works better in surround this way IMO. I have listened to stupidly priced stereo set ups costing £50k+ but doesn't satisfy me. I listened to a pair of KEF Blades with Bryston amplification yesterday and it did sound amazing but it needed surround channels IMO. Different horses for courses.

I feel that the Apex make an excellent pair of stereo speakers but you do have to run the sub as well.

These are just my views and I know im in the minority re surround music but I love it and don't care ha ha!!!!

 

[Julian_b]

ditto to ric71's comments on surround music sub/sat style :rockout:

 

[RickyDeg]

Ricky> i'm very happy with my avr-4311 - this is a beast. I think i'll get Audyssey Pro for Christmas

Glad you are enjoying your Denon, greedy!

It's funny, but yesterday before I read your post I spent all day reading up on Audyssey Pro and it looks very promising. According to user feedback it seems to extract that extra amount of performance from the EQ-system. It's more of a hassle maybe since you have to include a PC in the calibration process but because of that there is more processing power on tap. Also, Audyssey Pro is more flexible than the standard system if you want to tweak things.

Also, I assumed that with 32 measuring points at your disposal the system would best work for those with a very large room, but I read several users who have small rooms (much like my own) and "only" executed 12-14 measurements with Pro and got fantastic improvements.

Can't wait to hear your findings after Christmas!

I'd love to know if the performance of Apex elevate!

 

[Chord_Freak]

Guys, when listening to CD's in 5.1 what decoding mode do you use - there's so many and they all sound different! I decided to buy a second-hand Cyrus CD7Q (upgraded Q DACS) to play my CD's but still find 2channel stereo sounds better than any of the 5.1 modes - am I missing something? What's the difference between 7channel stereo and the neo 6 surround modes?

I'm using 'Multichannel Stereo' on my Denon. Regular 2-channel simply sounds dull in my case. I want the music to fill the entire room. I have tweaked the mode so the centerchannel is silent. Basically stereo in the front and stereo in the back. It does the trick quite well without sounding gimmicky or overblown. I'm sure your Yamaha must have the ability to tweak it's 7channel stereo mode to your liking aswell. The whole idea with a mode like this is to find balance. But if plain old 2-channel sounds good for you then why bother? It is the more accurate route to go, after all, and what most people seem to prefer.

The difference between DTS Neo 6 Music and a 'Multichannel Stereo' mode is that the latter simply sends the same stereo signal more-or-less untouched to all connected speakers (duplicating the signal), while the former is a sort of psuedo-surround mode that extracts cues and ambience in the recorded music and places them in the appropriate speakers to create an effect. If it sounds natural or not only you can decide. I think the end result varies alot between material.

Thanks for that RickyDeg, I'll try multi-channel again and turn off the centre channel and see how it sounds. I think it was the centre channel that was obscuring the stereo imaging which is what I didn't like about the multi-channel mode so by doing what you've done it should sort out the imaging problem! :cheers:

 

[Chord_Freak]

In my opinion , for good stereo listening floorstanders are needed ( or higher end standmounters).Apex are to small to produce good stereo from only 2 speakers.Most receivers cross Apex to 80hz, so must play subwoofer for good bass weight.Two Apex speaker alone are to weak sounding for me.So i always use MULTICHANNEL STEREO mode with my Denon, when all channels are playing with subwoofer- there is another league....TRy it:rockout: AC/DC "Higway to hell"

Ricky> i'm very happy with my avr-4311 - this is a beast.I think i'll get Audyssey Pro for Christmas:bounce:

Sorry, I've mislead you slightly, when I say I listen in stereo mode I mean 2.1 stereo - by default the yammy in 2channel stereo still uses the sub for the bass. It's only if you put it to 'pure direct' that you lose the sub. I agree that you can't really use the Apex without a sub for stereo listening - you are losing too many low frequencies (although it doesn't sound that bad when I'm listening late at night and don't have the sub on).

 

[RickyDeg]

Guys, when listening to CD's in 5.1 what decoding mode do you use - there's so many and they all sound different! I decided to buy a second-hand Cyrus CD7Q (upgraded Q DACS) to play my CD's but still find 2channel stereo sounds better than any of the 5.1 modes - am I missing something? What's the difference between 7channel stereo and the neo 6 surround modes?

I'm using 'Multichannel Stereo' on my Denon. Regular 2-channel simply sounds dull in my case. I want the music to fill the entire room. I have tweaked the mode so the centerchannel is silent. Basically stereo in the front and stereo in the back. It does the trick quite well without sounding gimmicky or overblown. I'm sure your Yamaha must have the ability to tweak it's 7channel stereo mode to your liking aswell. The whole idea with a mode like this is to find balance. But if plain old 2-channel sounds good for you then why bother? It is the more accurate route to go, after all, and what most people seem to prefer.

The difference between DTS Neo 6 Music and a 'Multichannel Stereo' mode is that the latter simply sends the same stereo signal more-or-less untouched to all connected speakers (duplicating the signal), while the former is a sort of psuedo-surround mode that extracts cues and ambience in the recorded music and places them in the appropriate speakers to create an effect. If it sounds natural or not only you can decide. I think the end result varies alot between material.

Thanks for that RickyDeg, I'll try multi-channel again and turn off the centre channel and see how it sounds. I think it was the centre channel that was obscuring the stereo imaging which is what I didn't like about the multi-channel mode so by doing what you've done it should sort out the imaging problem! :cheers:

Just remember to possibly adjust the balance of the other channels aswell so nothing sounds overpowering. Every receiver/processor handle 'Multichannel Stereo' modes differently, but last time I had a Yamaha in my home I recall that it was possible to tweak independently of any other mode or input. In retrospect I think the best integrated solution I've heard for music was when I tested the Primare SPA22 HD; it sounded stunning in 'Multichannel Stereo' mode with the Apex, and I could easily tweak each channel to my liking for that setting. Too bad it didn't do as well with movies or I might have kept it.

 

[gunny]

For the people that might be interested:

I was finally able to have my listening session with both a proper Denon and NAD amp connected to the Apex A10's.

Bit of background:

I currently have a Marantz SR4001, which is clearly not potent enough to properly drive the Apex speakers to their full abilities. I'm currently saving for the A40 center speaker and will complete the set with the R45HD back surround speakers, but that still leaves me with an AV amp that is too weak for these lovely speakers.

So I started reading up on what most people tend to use, which lead me to the standard suspects: Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Marantz and of course a couple of exotics such as the Anthem and the NAD.

The mainstream amp (P, Y, D, O, M) all play roughly in the same pricerange and they are without a doubt fine offerings, but after having read a number of raving reviews of the NAD T757 which were prasing the amp for the way it could reproduce sound, made me think if chosing a NAD over the others would be a good move, understanding that the NAD doesn't focus on all the new and neat features that are fitted to all the new and modern amps.

So decided to have a listen myself, and went to a dealer this afternoon that holds most of the amps mentioned above.

The setup was very simple: 2x Apex A10 without a sub, so pure stereo sound. I figured that if I wanted to hear the difference in the amps, this would be the best setup to do so. Keep in mind that I did NOT test the actual AV amps, but tested with stereo amps that boast the same power levels as their AV brothers.

I started with the Pioneer, followed by the Denon and the Marantz. All 3 played well enough and clearly outperformed my current amp, but they left me feeling a bit wanting for more. The soundstage felt narrow and a bit cold. That was when the NAD was connected.

:O All I can say is OMG. The difference in sound stage, control, tightness of the sound, depth and control of the low (yes, low) frequencies, clarity and detail in the sound were all amazing and clearly levels above what the other amps were able to bring to the stage.

After having listened to the NAD amp I now understand what the reviewers were talking about! I still entend to try and do the same listening session with a Yamaha; the Anthem may be a proper amp but the design/looks of it seem so outdated (personal opinion before anyone shoots me) that it is already out of the selection anyway.

Just thought I'd share my experience if there are still people out there that are searching for an amp to complete their (Apex) setup. :cheer:

 

[RickyDeg]

Great gunny! Been looking forward to your feedback on NAD with Apex! Terrific post! If you liked it that much with plain 2.0 we can only hope full-on multichannel will bring more of the good stuff. I've yet to listen to a NAD machine myself so cannot comment on any listeningexperiences but I have heard good things about them. Then again, good things have also been said about Pioneer, Anthem and the likes yet none of those impressed me. It's always subjective, is it not?

Now, not saying that Audyssey should automatically be a dealbreaker but I must admit I'm still baffled as to why NAD's newer models (especially the more costly ones) do not include the more advanced MultEQ XT32. That is partly the reason behind my lukewarm interest. I would simply find it difficult to justify the investment of a machine with a simpler version of Audyssey that I already got in my Denon. My dealer claimed NAD was working on a new MDC-module with XT32 but when I contacted NAD themselves they replied no such plans exist. Go figure. Unfortunate strategy by NAD if you ask me. Still, having that said I would not say not to a homedemo of the bigger T787.

Let us know any further feedback! Would be great!

 

[gunny]

Indeed RickyDeg, it is strange that they only have a basic room correction system on the T757 and the older version of the Audessy on the top range, which could indeed be a deal breaker as few people have the "ideal" room conditions...

I do have some hopes that they are working on MDC modules that will encorporate (hopefully) the latest of the Audessy calibrations, as it is already the case to some extend with the AM 200.

If they are serious about their MDC module feature, they should certainly come up with modules that encorporate the latest Audessy cablibration, as they will otherwise be losing customer as you said (people like features, even if the amp is able to play leagues above the alternative).

 

[greedy]

I use Audyssey MUltEQXT32 and it crossed my front Apex to 90hz, center to 60hz and surrounds to 60hz.Is it normal?

 

[RickyDeg]

Indeed RickyDeg, it is strange that they only have a basic room correction system on the T757 and the older version of the Audessy on the top range, which could indeed be a deal breaker as few people have the "ideal" room conditions...

I do have some hopes that they are working on MDC modules that will encorporate (hopefully) the latest of the Audessy calibrations, as it is already the case to some extend with the AM 200.

If they are serious about their MDC module feature, they should certainly come up with modules that encorporate the latest Audessy cablibration, as they will otherwise be losing customer as you said (people like features, even if the amp is able to play leagues above the alternative).

Let's keep our fingers crossed! BTW, did you ever even listen to the T787?