The Apex Club

[RickyDeg]

Oy, feedback on both the A5 and iPhone5!!! :dance: haha

Truly great hearing all that. It's promising to know how the performance of your Apex have elevated from that upgrade (which we kinda knew they would, right?). Those who say there is little difference between amps don't know what they are talking about (I still hear people who claim that). Will be fun to see what the NuForce top-of-the-line can do! Suppose to be a powerhouse of finesse!

 

[ric71]

I would just like to reiterate that IMO for their size etc I don't think there is anything on the market that can touch the Apex. I also talk so highly of them in a multi channel context only,not as a stand alone stereo pair. They need to be used with a good sub.

I am a strong believer in sat/sub systems for multi channel as opposed to full range speakers. IMO the next step up would be from the likes of Artcoustic,PMC wafer,Triad in walls etc. M&K S150's would not be subtle enough size wise in my room although awsome. So yes the Apex are not the last word in speakers but for their size and as a huge selling point their looks they are not just a style package but serious performers that are more than capable of being partnered with serious equipment.

Just my 2 cents worth as on a long night shift

 

[RickyDeg]

Well put, ric71 :clap: Serious performers Apex are indeed. Besides, you are first-hand witness to their performance growth ability just with better amplification alone. It's always nice when speakers really reward you with each upgrade.

BTW, I been wanting to ask you - what sound mode do you utilize though your Anthem MRX for music? Unless I'm mistaken you use to own an Arcam receiver, right? And you used Pro Logic II Music sound mode? What do you prefer with the Anthem? When I tested the MRX 700 I didn't really care much for how music sounded over the Apex when using 5-channel stereo, for example. It came off as a little dull or lifeless to my ears. Plain 2.1 didn't feel as a viable choice either. Then again, I never got ARC to do the trick in my room so that might have been the reason.

 

[ric71]

Hey Ricky

I used to use Logic7 with my Lexicon DC2 and now with the Anthem as with the ARCAM I use Prologic2 music. I do not use 5 channel stereo or Anthem music. I have found that Prologic2 music works really well. It is much better in the Anthem than it was on the Arcam which I think is down to better processing. I also set the Panorama setting to on. I admit its not for everyone but IMO it works well. I have never felt that 2 channel,no matter how high end the system and good the room is sounds like "you are there". I have listened to music in multi channel for 15 years now so guess I'm set in my ways. I do miss Logic7 though. Just wish there was more material available in 5.1 etc.

i do believe the system has to be set up and calibrated properly for it to work well in multichannel,and this is where sat/subs come into importance along with decent equipment. It much easier if you just watch movies.

 

[RickyDeg]

Come on gosahl, give us the scoop on your dual AW-12 installation!

 

[Chord_Freak]

Hi guys, I've had the Apex setup for a few weeks now and am still really impressed with them - so much so that I have now sold all my high-end 2 channel equipment and am just using the AV equipment for everything - music sounds amazing!

I was using Monitor Audio Studio 20se floorstanding speakers for music which are regarded as some of the best speakers ever made and were What Hifi's reference speakers for many years (thats' how good they were) and I am actually hearing more detail in these Apex speakers than the Studio 20's, which I wasn't expecting! It just goes to show how much speaker technology has improved over the years.

Here's a couple of pics of my setup, it's not an ideal room for 5.1 but I've tried to position the speakers as well as I could manage:

I think I need a new TV unit, one that can hide all the equipment as I think it looks a bit ugly at the moment, but I'm having trouble finding one that will house it all with suffifient space between each item so they don't overheat!

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey Chord_Freak it's real wonderful to hear this! And thank you for posting the pictures! It's cool that Apex manage to surpass those Monitor Audio Studio 20SE to your ears, and I suppose that says alot. Also, not many of us have that 'ideal' room for speakers but you just gotta make the best of what you got. I know for a fact that Apex manage to make the most of almost any room situation, even real tricky ones. We have their immense flexibility of installation to thank for that I suppose.

For the record I think your installation looks more than decent, plus I love that blue guitar haha! A suitable a/v cabinet could improve things for you though, surely. Have you looked at furniture by BDI? They make some great looking stuff and I've seen quite a few models that might fit perfectly in that space of yours (while offering adequate space and ventilation aswell).

http://www.optimuminternational.co.uk/international/bdi-products/bdi-home-theatre/bdi-home-theatre-range/

 

[Chord_Freak]

Hi RickyDeg, thanks for the kind words and for the link. I've never heard of BDI and have had a quick look on their site - there's some really good-looking stuff on there but there aren't any prices. I'll have a more in-depth look into it when I've got the time

Just out of curiosity, what setting do you have your amp on when listening to music in 5.2? I've had a play with the 7 channel stereo setting and it sounds a bit strange, I prefer the 2.1 listening mode, but then one of my rear speakers is right next to my ear!

 

[RickyDeg]

Well, 2.1 for pure stereo music is naturally the more 'correct' way to go. For me it's dull and not an option anymore so I do utilize a multi-stereo playback mode. On the Denon you can tailor each channel per soundmode so I have trimmed and tweaked quite excessively to get the balance just right. Unless I'm mistaken Yamaha should have an option to tweak the 7-channel stereo DSP mode (one that does not effect other settings). So perhaps play around with that.

Every receiver deals with multi-stereo playback mode differently, and some process it better than others. Out of all the ones I've heard the unit to handle it best was the Primare SPA22, by a long shot. Multi-stereo was simply breathtaking through Apex with that thing at the helm. Sadly it let me down on movie soundtrack reproduction, but that's a whole different deal.

 

[Chord_Freak]

Thanks RickyDeg, I'll have a look at the settings for 7 channel stereo and see what I can tweak. I had another look at the BDI link you gave me and I think they are a bit out of my price range unfortunately, the first one I looked at was £1,500 :O I was thinking of something for around £300 ish.

 

[RickyDeg]

No problem Chord_Freak and yes, BDI furniture are expensive but great quality.

I know it's hard to choose, I looked for over a year before I found mine :O

 

[gosalh]

Hey Ricky, sorry mate i've been off sick with a virus. Will post some pics and feedback soon. Its all setup but i havent had a proper play with the second AW12 Will do some research over the weekend.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all, could anyone tell me how tall the A10's are on their stands?

can't find any info online. Cheers.

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey Jase, with the dedicated stand they end about 102 cm off the floor (without any spikes).

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply. Got some measuring up to do.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone, I'm getting close to spending some money now but I've still got some doubts. I still want a style speaker but I might also consider small stand mounted speakers. Will the Apex A10's out perform Monitor Audio RX1's or RX2's in a music or film setting? I want music as well as films to sound more dynamic. Will there be a big difference between my B&W MT-1's which I'm using at the minute and the A10's? Also would my RXW-12 sub be a good match with the ASW-12 to give better bass? I'm going to use five A10's as I can't accommodate the A40 up front.

 

[gunny]

Hi Jase,

can't comment on the RX's but I can comment on the B&W M-1's vs the MA Apex A-10's.

Before I was looking at the Apex series, I actually was set on the B&W M-1's.

Had a listen and although they don't sound bad, there was something which was missing, especially as I was coming from the 603 S3 floorstanding speakers (and no, it wasn't only the bass).

Following the recommendation I had a listen to the A10's, side by side with the M-1's and the difference, at least to my ears and those of my wife (!!!), was night and day.

The soundstage of the A10's is like it is 10 times wider compared to the M-1's, and the level of detail the A-10's are capable of is just putting the M-1 completely in its shadow.

For me there was no comparison, even with the new revision of the M-1's (which I also auditioned, just to be sure of my choice). The A-10's are more analytic compared to the B&W's, so your taste might be more towards the M-1's, but for me the level of detail these baby's are able to produce is amazing.

Needless to say that the choice was an easy one for me, also being supported by my wife. She isn't one that is easily impressed, but after first hearing the B&W's followed by the MA's, she simply said: You should get those(A-10's). They sound much better! I'm very happy at the moment, saving for the center A-40 and rear R45HD.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi gunny, thanks for getting back to me. It's great to get the opinion of someone who as auditioned both my existing and future speakers for comparison. It's been proving hard to find somewhere where I can listen to both without taking my own setup with me. I know from the forum that people love these speakers but that on its own doesn't give you a great understanding of what you'll likely to get for your money. I've decided against both the RX1's & RX2's as although small, I can't accommodate them. The only thing left to think about is whether to swap my sub for the AW-12 or run it together with my RXW-12? Opinions would be welcomed.

 

[Anonymous]

I run an Apex set up with an RXW sub because the RXW sub has a speaker grill that offers at least some level of protection against little fingers and puppy paws, and I couldn't discern any difference between the RXW and AW subs when I auditioned them both. To me they are the same, except for the packaging and the gloss black/white subs match nicely with the Apex satellite speakers.

 

[gunny]

The question is if you have the feeling that there is something missing with your current sub?

How is your music/movie percentage? If you watch movies about 90% and you have the room, a ported sub will run circles around both the RXW and AW sub. For example the BK Monolith is a beast of a sub and is able to go down to frequencies far below what both the RXW and AW are capable of.

Don't get me wrong, the AW-12 sub is a good sub, but there are other subs out there which will perform on par or above the AW-12 at the same or even lower budget.

I personally opted for the BK XXLS400 DF, which doesn't even need protection as it is a nice, in my case gloss white, downfiring sub which in my eyes is equal to the AW-12 at a much lower cost.

There are people who doubt that the integration with the Apex range could be worse, but it all depends on the cross-over you set, and in my opinion and personall experience the BK (or any other -proper- sub for that matter) will blend nicely as long as you take care of the cross-over and placement of the sub.

If you feel that your current sub is not performing the way it should, you might also want to look at sub placement as it might have a rather big impact on the performance of your sub. An antimode or even a simple granite slab below the sub can result in great improvements.

 

[greedy]

Chord_freak - i saw your system...I think your placement of surroud speakers is not correct.you may put your speakers to that level, that tweeters must be in the level of your ear while you are seated(or maybe a little bit higher. in my case the roof of speaker is about 1,5m height)..in my opinion right now they are too low...you may try and have better results in sound...

 

[Anonymous]

Hi guys, I'm not really unhappy with my RXW-12. Its more the lack of mid-range with music in my present set-up that's bugging me. I just thought two would be better than one. Just wanted to get a matching bass response.

 

[greedy]

Jase brown..RXW-12 performance is superb.I suggest try receiver with audyssey multeqx32..I had Pioneer lx-83 and had problems as you. changed to denon avr-4311 with audyssey multeqxt32 and have very good bass- deep, controlled and no distortion at all, even on high volume...My subwoofer is aw-12( very similar to rxw-12).Pioneer has mcacc calibration, which doesnt care and control low frequency..

 

[Chord_Freak]

Chord_freak - i saw your system...I think your placement of surroud speakers is not correct.you may put your speakers to that level, that tweeters must be in the level of your ear while you are seated(or maybe a little bit higher. in my case the roof of speaker is about 1,5m height)..in my opinion right now they are too low...you may try and have better results in sound...

Hi Greedy, the surrounds are positioned so when I'm sitting down the tweeters are at ear level, they must look lower in the pic, thanks for the heads-up

 

[michael hoy]

Pioneer has mcacc calibration, which doesnt care and control low frequency..

Once again a blanket statement, If the system is set up correctly i.e not just being lazy and allowing software to dictate all your set up options, then the bass from the sub will sound right.

Whichever calibration software you use, it is not the be all and end all of calibration.

A friend of mine came to my house recently (not seen or heard my system previously), and asked to have a listen to some music (stereo) he knew well and I also played a movie.

After the music track played he got up looked around and said "where is your sub", I pointed it out and he was amazed that the sound appeared to come from the front speakers and not to some part coming from the sub (this was directly behind him).

My point being if it is set up correctly it sounds right.