The Apex Club

[greedy]

Hey Tots79,welcome NAD is amazing, but i never heard it with Apex.I think, very important thing is room calibration system, which receiver uses..If you want to sqeeze all juice from Apex, you must look at the receivers with Audyssey Multeq XT32..This eq is better ,than Nad uses..Second thing- why not to go for AW-12 subwoofer?they integrate super with Apex and look beautifull together

 

[Anonymous]

Prices on all apex'es just went up around 15% today (both dealers, we have 2) in Denmark, anywhere else?

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey guys, first time poster about to dive in and join the Apex club. I have to say I've read all the 830 replies and this thread is amazing! Kudos to all of you, it's better than a 10 year subscription to What Hifi!

I'm going to get my first system here downunder in Melbourne, and these are the components I'm thinking of. I've previously had hifi separates (Mark Levinsons and Thiels) so music is the priority (60/40) I would say. Have heard the whole range of sats (Paradigm MilenniaOnes, B&W MT60s, Minx and Cabasse) and the top 2 clearly are the Paradigms and the Apexes. The Apex just shades it for music I think, where the Paradigms can sound abit vanilla. However, for movies, its almost an even fight.

Here are my thoughts for the system, let me know what you think / alternatives:

AVR: NAD T757 (It's between this and the Yamaha A3020, NAD just seems better at music, and a more meaty, warm amp that can tame the potential brightness of the Apex)

Source: Oppo BDP-95

Speakers: 4 x A10 (Fronts and rears), 1 x A40 as centre

Subwoofer: SVS SB13-Plus

Realise that some of my componentry might be slightly more esoteric (NAD & SVS), but if anybody has any thoughts, I would definitely welcome them, especially those in the industry. Otherwise, it might just make for an interesting review later

Thanks, guys, the info sharing and camaraderie is awesome!

Hey TOts79 and welcome to the club! Congrats on your excellent choice of speakers!

The better electronics you feed them, the more they will deliver. Since you've read this entire thread (!) you've probably seen my on-going hunt for an a/v amp or receiver and that I've yet to find anything. What I did notice very clearly with each machine though was how easily Apex will show differences in sound reproduction. I've also looked at NAD, but I have ditched that idea due to the fact that not even their newer models employ the more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32, and I think if one is going to go for a machine with Audyssey that is the system to strive for! Unless you wanna go all-out for Audyssey Pro, of course, then those bigger models from NAD might be interesting.

A word on the potential 'brightness' of the Apex that you mention; I've never once (at home or in demos) thought of these speakers as 'bright' at all. I'd say they are balanced, but most importantly they are transparent. Just that they are very detailed and reach high frequencies and sometimes people tend to think of that as 'bright'.

Just like greedy pointed out you should most definitely consider getting the matching AW-12 subwoofer since the very essence of this system lay in the integration satellite-subwoofer! I could not stress that enough! That's not to say you can't match it with the SVS, but I canno't imagine you not getting an even better result with the "appropriate" subwoofer!

Looking forward to hearing your findings! (and seeing some photos of your set-up!)

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the kind replies and advice guys. What I'm going to do as next steps are to audition the Denon 3312 and 4311 and the NAD T757 this weekend and make a final decision. Regarding the sub, I'm getting the SVS at a really good price and it's a better sub in terms of value wise compared to the Monitor Audio, which is really expensive here in Melbourne. Also, need a bigger sub to fill my living room space (6m x 9m x 9m).

Will update you guys on my decision, really excited!

 

[greedy]

Tots79, if not AW-12, how about Velodyne subwoofer?If your room is big, maybe better use 2 subwoofers?

 

[ric71]

SVS PB13 Plus is a fantastic sub that will play really deep

 

[gosalh]

Guys you should checkout War Horse on bluray. Overall good movie with excellent sound. The German artillery scene was amazing!! My AW12 shook the entire room with its deep bass. Also the scene shot in no mans land sounded awesome too! RickyDeg you should try and get a copy if you haven't already, it'll be a real treat for your twin AW12s!

 

[RickyDeg]

Guys you should checkout War Horse on bluray. Overall good movie with excellent sound. The German artillery scene was amazing!! My AW12 shook the entire room with its deep bass. Also the scene shot in no mans land sounded awesome too! RickyDeg you should try and get a copy if you haven't already, it'll be a real treat for your twin AW12s!

Good tip gosalh! Heard lots of positive things about that soundtrack.

Hope things work out well with your current installation of the A10 heights! I'm envious!

 

[Anonymous]

SVS PB13 Plus is a fantastic sub that will play really deep

Thanks, ric71. Mine's the SB though which is sealed rather than ported as I wanted something musical and accurate.

Just an update guys, I've finally auditioned the following amps in combination with the Apexes:

- NAD T757

- NAD T777

- Denon 3312

- Denon 4311

Firstly, let me say this, I know that there are big Denon fans here in the forum, but the NADs well and truly did it for me. I ended up getting the T757s as I couldn't justify the double up in costs over the T777. Some of the major differences I heard:

- Expansive, immersive soundstage, you felt like you were in the crowd (Tried a few Eagles & John Mayer concerts) with the NADs, compared to watching a crowd in front of you with the Denons.

- Just the more natural sound of instruments and voices, the little nuances that you easily miss with the Denon's (Extended decay of drums and cymbals, the inhaling and exhaling of voices, the screech and squeaks of fingers on guitar strings). Everything is just more lifelike! To tell you the truth, I listed to the 3312 first then the NAD T757, and the difference was night and day!

I have to say, even the T757 gave the lauded 4311's a good run for their money, despite being half the price. The Denon's were much more neutral tonally, whereas NAD had that trademark NAD sound signature - slight bloom in the midrange and a strong forward driving tempo - I would describe it as really MEATY. This I thought was a good match with the Apexes.

The owner of the shop I auditioned them told me the top of the range T787's were his current favourite surround amp, even beating out the top of the line Denon A1's at half the price. I shied away from testing that at the risk of getting further poisoned into spending more money. Anyway, you'd definitely need full size floorstanders to take full advantage of these amazing amps. Future upgrade perhaps.

As always, this is my opinion only, I will further update my views once I get it setup in my new place early next month! Thanks again guys!

 

[RickyDeg]

Great feedback TOts79! Thanks!

I'm even more curious about the NAD's now, in particular the bigger T787 (Apex LOVE power!). I've heard good things about them from others aswell. Can't comment on their performance myself yet of course as I've never demoed anything from that brand. I can see their performance level possibly being better (in theory) since they concentrate all efforts on sound rather than features.

You probably already read this excellent review of the T787?

http://www.hometheater.com/content/nad-t-787-av-receiver

Still a pity though their newer models don't include the more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and I'm honestly puzzled as to why NAD didn't upgrade their top-of-the-line models. Perhaps one should opt for an Audyssey Pro calibration when choosing a NAD? Have you considered doing so?

 

[greedy]

I think Nad T777 or T787 is a very good receivers and will match the Apex just perfect What i like in Nad's, that they have really massive one or two BIG (787) torroidal tranformers power supply, very low distortion, MDC modules ( i think they are pricey, but its cheaper change than all receiver, i think NAD will make MDC with audyssey multeqxt32).From all NAD's range i heard only T777, but acoustics was Dali, not Apex.NAD's have very good quality construction and sound i think..GO FOR it >)

 

[RickyDeg]

I think Nad T777 or T787 is a very good receivers and will match the Apex just perfect What i like in Nad's, that they have really massive one or two BIG (787) torroidal tranformers power supply, very low distortion, MDC modules ( i think they are pricey, but its cheaper change than all receiver, i think NAD will make MDC with audyssey multeqxt32).From all NAD's range i heard only T777, but acoustics was Dali, not Apex.NAD's have very good quality construction and sound i think..GO FOR it >)

Without having heard any NAD's yet, I think you have a few good points there greedy! Pity about the less advanced Audyssey though but I just heard from my reliable dealer that NAD is currently working on a new MDC module that will feature Audyssey MultEQ XT32. That might be of interest to you aswell TOts79[/b] for a future upgrade of your model. I'm confident your Apex-system would benifit from that. This makes me even more interested in testing the T787. By the way greedy, when is your Denon arrving? Can't wait to hear what you think of it with your Apex-system!

 

[greedy]

RickyDeg>Eagle is landing next week i'll write my impressions about it..Let's start saving for TX-P50GT50.I think NAD must make not just upgrade module with Multeqxt32, but NAD must put Multeqxt32 into all receivers which are manufacturing today.Because nobody wants to buy new receiver with old eq..NAD are you reading?? oke:

 

[RickyDeg]

RickyDeg>Eagle is landing next week i'll write my impressions about it..Let's start saving for TX-P50GT50.I think NAD must make not just upgrade module with Multeqxt32, but NAD must put Multeqxt32 into all receivers which are manufacturing today.Because nobody wants to buy new receiver with old eq..NAD are you reading?? oke:

Absolutely agree! If I were to purchase the T787 today I'd have to pay extra for the MultEQ XT32 hardware module. Hope I can test one soon regardless. Apex might possibly love the powerful delivery, and what TOts79 [/b]wrote above is interesting.

Panasonic TX-P50GT50 seems nice. I been keeping an eye on TX-P55VT50 myself

 

[greedy]

Yesterday i saw Panasonic viera plasma 65 inch in action..i was killed by that tv 8)

RickyDeg>which is the main reason you looking for plasma?

 

[Anonymous]

RickyDeg>Eagle is landing next week i'll write my impressions about it..Let's start saving for TX-P50GT50.I think NAD must make not just upgrade module with Multeqxt32, but NAD must put Multeqxt32 into all receivers which are manufacturing today.Because nobody wants to buy new receiver with old eq..NAD are you reading?? oke:

Hey man, I've got the Pana 60''ST50A myself. Got it for a bargain price of AUD$1,780 (approx. GBP1,180) when it first came out. Just waiting for it to be delivered with the new system to my new place. Aaaarrgh can't wait. Heard it's as good as the legendary Pioneer Kuro's.

 

[RickyDeg]

Yesterday i saw Panasonic viera plasma 65 inch in action..i was killed by that tv 8)

RickyDeg>which is the main reason you looking for plasma?

65" would be cool, but too large for my smallish livingroom. 55" would be perfect though, which is why the TX-P55VT50 is interesting, plus the picture quality on that Panasonic is gorgeous. I use to own plasma prior to my current 52" Samsung LCD, which is a great set (very clean, vibrant images), but the new Panasonic is better. What worries me about plasma however is image retention and panel buzzing, both of which I really don't like.

 

[michael hoy]

Yesterday i saw Panasonic viera plasma 65 inch in action..i was killed by that tv 8)

RickyDeg>which is the main reason you looking for plasma?

65" would be cool, but too large for my smallish livingroom. 55" would be perfect though, which is why the TX-P55VT50 is interesting, plus the picture quality on that Panasonic is gorgeous. I use to own plasma prior to my current 52" Samsung LCD, which is a great set (very clean, vibrant images), but the new Panasonic is better. What worries me about plasma however is image retention and panel buzzing, both of which I really don't like.

Ricky,

I can say that on my VT30, I have had no buzzing or image retention issues.

I was told the 50VT50 does not have a cooling fan so should be quite.

 

[RickyDeg]

Yesterday i saw Panasonic viera plasma 65 inch in action..i was killed by that tv 8)

RickyDeg>which is the main reason you looking for plasma?

65" would be cool, but too large for my smallish livingroom. 55" would be perfect though, which is why the TX-P55VT50 is interesting, plus the picture quality on that Panasonic is gorgeous. I use to own plasma prior to my current 52" Samsung LCD, which is a great set (very clean, vibrant images), but the new Panasonic is better. What worries me about plasma however is image retention and panel buzzing, both of which I really don't like.

Ricky,

I can say that on my VT30, I have had no buzzing or image retention issues.

I was told the 50VT50 does not have a cooling fan so should be quite.

Really? I just checked and got the opposite reply - the fans in VT50 are on constantly :O aargh

But perhaps this issue is best reserved for another thread...? :rofl:

 

[greedy]

Maybe someone uses Chord Odyssey2 speaker cables?Planing to buy for my system..At the moment my cable is Chord Campana..

 

[gosalh]

Hi guys

Just a quick update, ive setup my new A10s as heights and i have to say WOW!! The soundstage has really opened up and has added a new dimension to my setup. Im impressed with dsx although it does on rare occasions get carried away. Pro logic iiz is a little more subtle but its configurable, but dsx is the real championn here. Honestly speaking I dont think i can go back to normal 5.1 now. Tested various bluray movies, good test was using movies like pearl harbor (crap movie i know), as the japanese fighter planes pass on the screen heading to attack you can hear the sound from the heights which left me amazed with the immersive sound. Still need to test music so more feedback to follow. But movies sound as if im at the cinema.

Glad to say its money well spent.

Trunking worked out ok, although it took me almost a day to put them up neatly as possible. Photos coming soon.

 

[RickyDeg]

Awesome to hear that gosahl Apex get better and better the more of them you add

Will be fun to see some photos later. Bet the trunking must have been a challenge, can't even imagine. Now I'm envious of your 7.1 set-up. Next you'll fire up a second AW-12. WOOFF! ENJOY!

 

[gosalh]

Hi ricky

Yeah the two heights make a difference. Try and get your ones up there, they'll open up the soundstage to a new level!!

trunking was a real challenge! This is what took me ages, but ive done my best and it looks ok. I used qed xt evolution cable which isnt the most flexible.

Yes aw12, hopefully the wife will allow me to buy one at christmas. That would be the last thing i add, otherwise i'll run out of space lol.

Seriously get your height speakers up there, you will not be disappointed.

Cheers

 

[RickyDeg]

Believe it or not gosahl but I sold my extra pair of A10's once I realised I wouldn't be able to install them nicely. I'm personally allergic to seeing trunking/cable strips on my wall (can't integrate cables into the wall either, sadly). Perhaps I'll come up with a solution, perhaps not.

I've listened to DTS Neo:X with heights at my dealer and a friends house (he's got the Onkyo TX-NR3009) and of the three that is the most impressive soundfield system in my opinion. It's perhaps somewhere inbetween DSX and Dolby IIz in that it's very effective yet doesn't draw distracting attention to itself or go over-the-top. Don't ask me how they do it. Each time I've heard it it's been realistic and immersive. Recently watched 'Sunshine' at his house (brilliant soundtrack, one of my favs!) and it was striking! Just like you say heights do open up the soundstage.

Glad you've now gotten even more use of Apex and the beautiful Denon!

BTW, I may be getting the NAD T787 for testing. Will be interesting to hear what it makes of the Apex. Keeping fingers crossed! (no, it doesn't have any height processing, or XT32, but still...)

 

[greedy]

NAD787 doesnt have xt32, but NAD is a bad boy :twisted:with its big transformers, low distortion and build like M1A2 Abrams..