The Apex Club

[michael hoy]

I found that new Denon will be avr-4520 http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/1220/avr4520/avr-4520.asp

Hi Greedy,

That must have been where I saw it as well, just could not remember which site.

Might even make me swap my Pioneer

 

[ric71]

Nice review Ricky.

I think you will only be happy with the new Denon. You def like what Denon does and with XT32.

Can I ask why you want to upgrade as you seem more than happy with your present Denon?

What about invrsting the money into a screen and projector?

 

[RickyDeg]

Nice review Ricky.

I think you will only be happy with the new Denon. You def like what Denon does and with XT32.

Can I ask why you want to upgrade as you seem more than happy with your present Denon?

What about invrsting the money into a screen and projector?

Hey ric! Thanks a great deal for reading! Actually, the thought of me being a Denon fanboy crossed my mind a while ago, hehe, but since I know what Apex are capable of I've simply been interesed to see (hear) what else I can squeeze out of them from other brands/models. Despite disappointments I'm having fun too. Some of us constantly get bitten by the "upgrade-bug" though it seems. If I am to invest in anything else other than a new receiver/amplification it will probably be fine-tuning equipment and accessories. I don't have room/desire for a screen and projector.

Wouldn't mind a 60" tv though :rockout: And YOU with your Anthem Statement multichannel amplifier coming up! Gosh! I dare not imagine what it will accomplish with Apex.

 

[ric71]

Hey Ricky,

I find your reviews very enjoyable and interesting to read. Nothing wrong with being a Denon fanboy.

Yeah I'm saving hard for the Statement.The Apex do thrive on quality amplification. I am aware that many people would say a Statement A5 would be overkill for the Apex but as you know these little babies sing with quality power feeding them.

They are sounding fantastic with the Paradigm sub, really pleased.

Looking forward to your next receiver/pre/pro/power amp review.

 

[Anonymous]

Great review RickyDeg! :clap: Thank you for writing it, they are always a good read! I wouldn't mind having that Onkyo for our Apex but sadly its too big for our small cabinet lol

 

[gosalh]

Excellent review RickDeg!! I found it very interesting. So looks like the Denon option could be a potential? As greedy pointed out the Denon AVR-4520 looks like a beast and it is a beautiful looking machine. So maybe get a demo of this machine when its released. I too am going to try and get my hands on one of these to demo :dance:

 

[RickyDeg]

Excellent review RickDeg!! I found it very interesting. So looks like the Denon option could be a potential? As greedy pointed out the Denon AVR-4520 looks like a beast and it is a beautiful looking machine. So maybe get a demo of this machine when its released. I too am going to try and get my hands on one of these to demo :dance:

Awesome you read my little review gosahl And to think you'd consider getting a demo of the up-coming Denon beast when you have such a champ in your rack. Perhaps we can compare our findings if/when we both test that machine out? Would be interesting!

BTW, its a bit unfortunate I still can't use my additional pair of A10 for 'Front Height' duty (AVR-3808 doesn't have that capability, and since I've yet to switch to anything new I'm stuck). Still running 5.2 (which is good though, don't get me wrong). Apart from an additional AW-12 subwoofer have you considered 'Front Height' or 'Wide' with your Denon/Apex?

 

[gosalh]

Hey RickyDeg,

Definetly we can compare our findings. I will look out for a 4520 to demo once they're released. I want to see how different it sounds to my A100 (if it does).

You took the words right out of my mouth about the additional AW12 and the Front heights, I've been thinking of getting two additional A10s for Front Heights and using the Audyssey DSX mode. I had a read through some forums on DSX and some people were not too keen on the setup saying that it doesnt offer any advantage to a 5.1. So any advice or sources you have will be helpful. I'm defo on the additional AW12, i think it will make a difference to my setup.

I will upload pics of my system soon, i never seem to have the time during the working week but will try over the weekend.

Cheers

 

[ric71]

I used to run front heights with my Denon 3310/Apex. I used MA Radius 90HD's. For movie viewing it was an improvement IMO. It did create a much larger sound stage.

When I moved to the ARCAM it didn't have a front height option so I sold them. Thinking about another set of A10's myself again with the Anthem for front heights.

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey RickyDeg,

Definetly we can compare our findings. I will look out for a 4520 to demo once they're released. I want to see how different it sounds to my A100 (if it does).

You took the words right out of my mouth about the additional AW12 and the Front heights, I've been thinking of getting two additional A10s for Front Heights and using the Audyssey DSX mode. I had a read through some forums on DSX and some people were not too keen on the setup saying that it doesnt offer any advantage to a 5.1. So any advice or sources you have will be helpful. I'm defo on the additional AW12, i think it will make a difference to my setup.

I will upload pics of my system soon, i never seem to have the time during the working week but will try over the weekend.

Cheers

The things I can say judging by the demos I've had the impact of 'Front Height' differ from soundtrack to soundtrack and which mode you use. DTS Neo:X and Dolby PL IIz are often times more "subtle" and can sound more "natural" while Audyssey DSX can come off as more "agressive" but sometimes perhaps a little"distracting". I guess it'd be personal as to which one you'd prefer. Also I believe each of these have different recommendations on where to actually place the height speakers in relation to the room and the normal front speakers. I'd still prefer to have the option of this enhancement regardless, but at the moment I can't.

I remember back in the 90's when I got my very first Yamaha DSP surround receiver with 'Front Presence' channels watching "Jurassic Park" on laserdisc - how the sound filled the room was intense! One new nothing of high-resolution audio or Blu-ray back then, that's for sure! haha

Definitely keep us posted on this! Considering how much we love our Apex in plain 5.1 (or 5.2) I dare not imagine adding even more of them into the mix. Oh, and looking forward to (hopefully) seeing some photos of your system! Especially how you've set up the speakers in your room.

 

[gosalh]

RickyDeg an ric71, you guys have now got me interested in front heights......now im really intrigued lol this is bad for my bank account.

So if im playing a 5.1 DTS-HD/TrueHD bluray disc, will the fronts still be used or just the other 5.1 speakers? Im guessing the DSX mode will manage the utilisation of the front heights?

Same goes for Dolby PL IIz?

Also how high should the front heights be above the standard front left and right speakers?

Cheers

 

[ric71]

Hi gosalh,

As Ricky said above. I placed my front heights about 1m above the main L&R. It did enhance movie and TV viewing but you also have to consider aesthetics too. It didn't look great in my room and this is the only thing holding me back oh and lack of £ as saving for the Anthem Statement.

 

[RickyDeg]

RickyDeg an ric71, you guys have now got me interested in front heights......now im really intrigued lol this is bad for my bank account.

So if im playing a 5.1 DTS-HD/TrueHD bluray disc, will the fronts still be used or just the other 5.1 speakers? Im guessing the DSX mode will manage the utilisation of the front heights?

Same goes for Dolby PL IIz?

Also how high should the front heights be above the standard front left and right speakers?

Cheers

Oh yes, our hobby is bad for our bank accounts, that much is for certain! HA! :rofl:

My understanding is that DSX Height and Dolby PL IIz extract information and specific cues from the soundtrack (normally from the front L/R channels) to create the enhanced effect. They don't add anything that isn't already there. Will work on all surround encoded sources as height channels are not encoded in the soundtracks, its simply DSP-trickery by the receiver. Expect varying results.

I read placement recommendations by Audyssey on DSX Height and they said the following: "mount the heights as close to the ceiling as possible and further apart than the front L/R to increase separation from them". Sadly I didn't manage to find Dolby's own recommendations (I'm sure DTS have their own aswell). Perhaps you can check the manual of your Denon AVR A-100 for some tips? Where you place them would have to be practical and look nice aswell so perhaps you'll have to compromise? Testing different locations might prove tricky with height speakers though. When I had my old Yamaha I placed the speakers for front presence ontop two bookshelfs that sat on either side of the A/V cabinet. Thus they ended up somewhere around 2 meters off the floor. It worked great.

 

[gosalh]

Thanks ric71, i'm very tempted now. I think i'll arrange a demo at my local AV store to see what impact it makes to have heights.

On a different note, its amazing that we have approx 797 posts in the Apex Club thread now! Amazing how much it has grown.

 

[ric71]

I was surprised by the number of posts too.
It just goes to show how good these Apex are.

 

[RickyDeg]

Thanks ric71, i'm very tempted now. I think i'll arrange a demo at my local AV store to see what impact it makes to have heights.

On a different note, its amazing that we have approx 797 posts in the Apex Club thread now! Amazing how much it has grown.

Indeed. Thanks to YOU, for starting it in the first place! :clap:

I'm sure Monitor Audio themselves appreciate this thread aswell, hehe, as we have seen a representative leave his own comments here in the past.

The comment left after this one will be number 800 :O

 

[michael hoy]

Well i'm more than happy with mine.

Thanks to my wife spotting them (for looks) and then auditioning them with me.

Well done MA

It is also nice to have a thread that is so positive.

 

[Julian_b]

Thanks to this thread I chose the MA Apex speakers and have never looked back - thanks for the inspiration from all who have been posting here. I watched/listened to Super 8 the other night - the train crash scene's sound was absolutely amazing - sounded like the Apex's were ripping my room apart! They are truly amazing speakers - such great sound matched with discrete great looks. Looking forward to the next 800 threads of everyone's experiences with these great speakers. :cheers:

 

[RickyDeg]

Have you guys read the updated review of the Apex package here on What Hifi?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/monitor-audio-apex

They sound perhaps lightly more critical about certain things than they were originally, overall still positive in comparison to current competition however. They do mention B&W's new PV1D as the better sub though. Interesting read.

 

[greedy]

PV1D is more hi-tech subwoofer than AW-12.i'm talking about construction and it has own eq.I never heard it in any system.Maybe someone does?I have AW-12 with Apex and i like it very much :bounce:would be interesting to know are whathifi team used their Denon AVC-A1HD again for Apex testing?If so, this demon(AVC-A1HD) dont have multeqxt32, and cant squeeze all juice from AW-12!!!

 

[Julian_b]

Interesting that WHF used the movie Super 8 and talk about the exact same scene I was referring too - what a coincidence!
In their comments about the AW12 sub now having some 'weakness' compared to the new PV1D - couldn't work out if they did a head to head or if it was from memory? Anyway I like the way the Apex sub and satellites work together seemlessly to deliver great integration so no plan to rush and change the sub....but what would happen with two

 

[greedy]

I read the review, WHF only said, that PV1D is faster sounding than AW-12..I never found AW-12 sounding sluggish..Integration with satelites is brilliant >)

 

[gosalh]

Hi RickyDeg

Thanks for the kind gesture. I had started the thread out of interest as i was so smitten (and still am) with the Apex. Its ultimately a group effort from everyone to keep it going and share their experiences/knowledge and I have to say that it has been one of the most interesting threads in the forum so far and still going strong.

As for the new WHF review, i just read that now and don't really agree with the AW12 being sluggish. Its totally AWESOME!! IMO...i need to get another one added to my 5.1.

Im also scheduled for a demo at Sevenoaks this coming Saturday to see how good height speakers sound in a 5.1 system so i'll let you guys know the outcome of the demo.

Cheers

 

[RickyDeg]

Well, I certainly agree with you guys. I don't think the AW-12 comes off as one bit "sluggish" either. In my room it's agile and linear. Then again I have not tested the B&W PV1D. That model is more advanced on paper though. Despite that I still wouldn't switch to the B&W no matter what (dislike the spherical design, plus all Apex-models work so beautifully together!).

And yes - adding a second AW-12 does indeed bring a rock-solid bass-foundation. Just ask me!

Have to say though I find it interesting (puzzling) the way What Hifi updated and changed the text of their original Apex review this way. It's one thing if they added a completely new and separate comparison test. Doesn't appear to be the case though.

And, gosahl - can't wait to hear your findings after your 'Height'-demo!

 

[gosalh]

rickydeg or ric71 quick check with you guys, with the a10 wall bracket does it have acces for cable so it can be trunked easily using cable trunking? rather than me chipping into my wall. im preparing for if i go for the dsx setup. i have the brackets up in the attic but its a hassle to get up there and see for myself lol.

cheers