Yep
I still havent reached 500 hours yet, plus my A40 was replaced, plus i travel alot for work so i dont get to use them consistently
-
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I did receive the Denon BD and AVR and the Apex combo is supposed to be here in another week and a half.
I had my 17yr old pair of Elipson Orphee speakers paired with ONIX-OA24/SOAP2. I moved to a part of the world where air conditioners are humming all the time in the background which 'somehow' ruins any decent sound system. After moving back I never reconnected the ONIX amps but connected the speakers directly to my Panasonic TH-50PHD8EK with sound coming from either media boxes, satellite receivers or TV cable boxes and I moved from CDs to electronic versions (mostly FLAC and then MP3s).
After hacking my Apple TV2, I finally started to re-build my music collection to FLAC again but as the Elipson were still run via the Panasonic TV, the sound was only marginally better than MP3s.
Granted, these aren't B&Ws but after hooking them up to the Denon AVR, the sound difference I am getting is huge. Once the APEX are here, I will hook these up to create a 7.1 configuration to see if it is worthwhile keeping them as resale value is peanuts. At least they are slim enough to not take over the living room.
Already a happy customer...but the wait continues for the Apex...
I had my 17yr old pair of Elipson Orphee speakers paired with ONIX-OA24/SOAP2. I moved to a part of the world where air conditioners are humming all the time in the background which 'somehow' ruins any decent sound system. After moving back I never reconnected the ONIX amps but connected the speakers directly to my Panasonic TH-50PHD8EK with sound coming from either media boxes, satellite receivers or TV cable boxes and I moved from CDs to electronic versions (mostly FLAC and then MP3s).
After hacking my Apple TV2, I finally started to re-build my music collection to FLAC again but as the Elipson were still run via the Panasonic TV, the sound was only marginally better than MP3s.
Granted, these aren't B&Ws but after hooking them up to the Denon AVR, the sound difference I am getting is huge. Once the APEX are here, I will hook these up to create a 7.1 configuration to see if it is worthwhile keeping them as resale value is peanuts. At least they are slim enough to not take over the living room.
Already a happy customer...but the wait continues for the Apex...
gosalh said:YepI still havent reached 500 hours yet, plus my A40 was replaced, plus i travel alot for work so i dont get to use them consistently
Gotcha! Atleast I know you having plenty fun while running them in!
I played my Apex samples quite consistently during the first 2 months so they mellowed fairly quickly. And indeed I noticed their soundcharacter fully settle in, as you know.
Hi all, Can anyone recommend (or not) the use of monitor audio FX speakers for chanel 6+7 in an apex 5.1 setup.
Is it right that they are only really 'effect' channels, so tonal match is not as important as the rest of the 5 speakers.
Thanks for any advice.
Is it right that they are only really 'effect' channels, so tonal match is not as important as the rest of the 5 speakers.
Thanks for any advice.
theclam2008 said:
Have never listened to that model, though I know of it, but would personally strongly advice against mixing models (even of the same brand). I've had that myself on several occations in my early home-entertainment years, but my last few speakerssystems (incl Apex) clearly show that using identical speakers all-round is absolutely, without question, the best solution. Uniformity is perfected, and that's often what you wanna achieve in a multi-channel set-up, and when going for a satellite speakersystem this becomes a bit more easy to solve. Its one of the advantages of packages such as these so why break it up? Obviously the FX-model can give a more 'diffuse' soundfield, but that may not always be ideal, depending on your taste. So I say go for another pair of A10's or A40's (whichever you will use in the rest of the system) and be amazed by the coherent soundfield.
Hi All
I am really interested in buying the Apex Speakers but I just dont have the floor space available for the Apex Sub. I was wondering if anyone has either experience of or suggestions of an alternative subwoofer that integrates well with the Apex but is smaller. E.g Rel 218. Also aesthetics are important to me. (I accept I may lose a little in performance due to a smaller sub.)
Thanks
I am really interested in buying the Apex Speakers but I just dont have the floor space available for the Apex Sub. I was wondering if anyone has either experience of or suggestions of an alternative subwoofer that integrates well with the Apex but is smaller. E.g Rel 218. Also aesthetics are important to me. (I accept I may lose a little in performance due to a smaller sub.)
Thanks
My set-up finally arrived today and I managed to install it. I have to say, having bought these sight-unseen, I was a bit taken aback by the size of the A10s as they are somewhat larger than I expected. Ah well, they do look gorgeous 
I have just run the Audyssey setup and I think I probably will have to play with it some more. I am also not quite sure how to set up the subwoofer properly so I guess that will be part of the fun.
From what you all are saying, these will sound better over time but already they are quite awesome.
Too bad I have to go back to work tomorrow, would be nice to play with them for a day and try to improve the sound setup (or just enjoy them more likely).
I do have 3 questions that I hope someone can help me with:
1) Subwoofer
After having run the Auddyssey setup, it shows the distance for Front L and R to be 3.96m and 3.75m, Center 3.60m and Subwoofer at 6.72m. But the SW is actually currently located closer, more like 3m.
My AW-12 is set to:
Frequency: 80Hz
Low Pass Filter: On
Phase: 0°
Power Mode: Auto
and on the top: EQ1 and volume to around 40%
2) Rear units
The Surround L and R are set to 1.80m and 0.93m even though I had placed the mic right in the center. I did sit beside the speaker when I ran the set-up so I am wondering whether that could be the reason or is there somethins else I need to check on ?
3) Rear units placement
So far my rear units are positioned so that they 'stare' straight ahead, towards the TV. On all images (manual and online set-up) it shows these units to be placed pointing towards the seating position instead. Is this imperative or is my own placement suficient ?
I have all 4 A10s on stands. As these stands have a decent size footprint, it would require me to move my sofa quite far away from the wall if I were to move sideways that is why I haven't done so yet.
Thank you in advance
Mya
I have just run the Audyssey setup and I think I probably will have to play with it some more. I am also not quite sure how to set up the subwoofer properly so I guess that will be part of the fun.
From what you all are saying, these will sound better over time but already they are quite awesome.
Too bad I have to go back to work tomorrow, would be nice to play with them for a day and try to improve the sound setup (or just enjoy them more likely).
I do have 3 questions that I hope someone can help me with:
1) Subwoofer
After having run the Auddyssey setup, it shows the distance for Front L and R to be 3.96m and 3.75m, Center 3.60m and Subwoofer at 6.72m. But the SW is actually currently located closer, more like 3m.
My AW-12 is set to:
Frequency: 80Hz
Low Pass Filter: On
Phase: 0°
Power Mode: Auto
and on the top: EQ1 and volume to around 40%
2) Rear units
The Surround L and R are set to 1.80m and 0.93m even though I had placed the mic right in the center. I did sit beside the speaker when I ran the set-up so I am wondering whether that could be the reason or is there somethins else I need to check on ?
3) Rear units placement
So far my rear units are positioned so that they 'stare' straight ahead, towards the TV. On all images (manual and online set-up) it shows these units to be placed pointing towards the seating position instead. Is this imperative or is my own placement suficient ?
I have all 4 A10s on stands. As these stands have a decent size footprint, it would require me to move my sofa quite far away from the wall if I were to move sideways that is why I haven't done so yet.
Thank you in advance
Mya
Hey Mya :wave: I'm glad to see you've gotten things home and up and running! Lets see if I can help shed some light on a few subjects, and maybe offer a few tips along the way.
Firstly, I would strongly suggest that you actually read through the user manual and suggested settings very carefully (boring, I know). Your new Denon AVR-4311 is an advanced piece of kit, and most importantly the calibration function Audyssey MultEQ XT32 demand extra attention. Visit Audyssey's website where you will be able to read lots of tips and guidelines that can be extremely helpful. Here is a direct-link just to get you started (you can also submit your own questions):
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/how-to
To ideally place speakers in a listeningarea is no easy task. Like many of us you might find that over time you'll keep on experimenting with placement to obtain improved results. And as with most speakers Apex will reward you with carefull placement. Also remember to run Audyssey calibration several times to learn how it works. Something I strongly suggest doing. Especially after the Apex have been fully run-in and/or whenever you change things around in your room. Most changes will affect the sound, and Audyssey will take those changes into account when calculating the results.
Now on to your specific questions:
1) automated distance measurement of subwoofers can often times turn out incorrect (the issue is addressed in your Denon manual, and on Audysseys website). This can be caused by the layout of your room and how low-frequencies are picked-up by the microphone. Simply change the distance of the subwoofer manually in the menus on the Denon to its correct distance (after the automated calibration procedure). Alternatively, you may actually want to play around a bit with the distance to determine by ear which sounds best to you. VERY IMPORTANT: turn 'Low Pass Filter' to OFF on the AW-12 subwoofer. Audyssey will set internal filters according to the calibration and so this task should only be handled by the receiver, not the subwoofer (otherwise you will use double filtering). The frequency knob on the subwoofer then becomes obsolete. When running the calibration the determined frequency cut-off will depend greatly on how the Apex satellites perform in your room. During playback if you happen to find the cut-off too high or too low simply change it manually to your own preferences (80Hz is always a good starting point). Volume, Phase and EQ1/2 are a matter of interplay with the satellites and personal taste, I'd say. Try find a smooth balance.
2) dont be present anywhere inside the listening area during the automated calibration! And definitely NOT beside the microphone, as this will disrupt measurements! Take great care when placing the microphone and definitely use a steady tripod when doing so, as suggested in the manual (improves measurement accuracy). Make sure you angle it toward the ceiling, placed at the same height as where your ears would be when normally seated. It is essential you run all 8 suggested measuring-points around the listening area as this will allow Audyssey to collect as much acoustic 'information' about your room as possible and the character of your speakers in order to accomplish maximum result (better sound). Follow Denon and Audysseys recommendations on microphone placement within the listening area and try your best not to stray from them.
3) again; placement is often key in creating a realistic envelopment of sound, but every room and situation have limitations so compromise is often difficult to avoid. My own pair of A10 rears are placed behind the listeningspot on each side of the sofa, about 1.5 meter away, angled slightly toward the listeningspot. This workes great in my room, and offer a more 'direct' surround. Your situation might be different though, so again: Experiment! (and then re-calibrate Audyssey!)
Yes, all of the above may sound time-consuming. But its fun and rewarding, believe me! So enjoy the Apex and the thrill-ride they are capable of. You only just scratched the surface. Good luck!
Firstly, I would strongly suggest that you actually read through the user manual and suggested settings very carefully (boring, I know). Your new Denon AVR-4311 is an advanced piece of kit, and most importantly the calibration function Audyssey MultEQ XT32 demand extra attention. Visit Audyssey's website where you will be able to read lots of tips and guidelines that can be extremely helpful. Here is a direct-link just to get you started (you can also submit your own questions):
http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/how-to
To ideally place speakers in a listeningarea is no easy task. Like many of us you might find that over time you'll keep on experimenting with placement to obtain improved results. And as with most speakers Apex will reward you with carefull placement. Also remember to run Audyssey calibration several times to learn how it works. Something I strongly suggest doing. Especially after the Apex have been fully run-in and/or whenever you change things around in your room. Most changes will affect the sound, and Audyssey will take those changes into account when calculating the results.
Now on to your specific questions:
1) automated distance measurement of subwoofers can often times turn out incorrect (the issue is addressed in your Denon manual, and on Audysseys website). This can be caused by the layout of your room and how low-frequencies are picked-up by the microphone. Simply change the distance of the subwoofer manually in the menus on the Denon to its correct distance (after the automated calibration procedure). Alternatively, you may actually want to play around a bit with the distance to determine by ear which sounds best to you. VERY IMPORTANT: turn 'Low Pass Filter' to OFF on the AW-12 subwoofer. Audyssey will set internal filters according to the calibration and so this task should only be handled by the receiver, not the subwoofer (otherwise you will use double filtering). The frequency knob on the subwoofer then becomes obsolete. When running the calibration the determined frequency cut-off will depend greatly on how the Apex satellites perform in your room. During playback if you happen to find the cut-off too high or too low simply change it manually to your own preferences (80Hz is always a good starting point). Volume, Phase and EQ1/2 are a matter of interplay with the satellites and personal taste, I'd say. Try find a smooth balance.
2) dont be present anywhere inside the listening area during the automated calibration! And definitely NOT beside the microphone, as this will disrupt measurements! Take great care when placing the microphone and definitely use a steady tripod when doing so, as suggested in the manual (improves measurement accuracy). Make sure you angle it toward the ceiling, placed at the same height as where your ears would be when normally seated. It is essential you run all 8 suggested measuring-points around the listening area as this will allow Audyssey to collect as much acoustic 'information' about your room as possible and the character of your speakers in order to accomplish maximum result (better sound). Follow Denon and Audysseys recommendations on microphone placement within the listening area and try your best not to stray from them.
3) again; placement is often key in creating a realistic envelopment of sound, but every room and situation have limitations so compromise is often difficult to avoid. My own pair of A10 rears are placed behind the listeningspot on each side of the sofa, about 1.5 meter away, angled slightly toward the listeningspot. This workes great in my room, and offer a more 'direct' surround. Your situation might be different though, so again: Experiment! (and then re-calibrate Audyssey!)
Yes, all of the above may sound time-consuming. But its fun and rewarding, believe me! So enjoy the Apex and the thrill-ride they are capable of. You only just scratched the surface. Good luck!
Hi Moi_Mya,
Follow Ricky's suggestions. For the Audyssey XT32, the config is a little different and when the subwoofer is being setup you'll probably end up turning the volume level to very low on the subwoofer. During the automatic setup the subwoofer will make subtle noises. Ignore the Denon handbook where it says move the volume dial to 12 o'clock position. During the auto setup follow the calibration settings on the TV, the correct channel level for the subwoofer for XT32 will turn green on the screen.
After the setup, if you think you need to increase the channel level of the subwoofer (as i did), do NOT turn the subwoofer volume up from the subwoofer's volume dial. Do it from the Amp in the channel level settings. This is what Audyssey recommend when i contacted them directly. If you do it from the dial, the bass will get messy as i experienced. Doing it through your Denon i.e. turning it up to 0db, will increase the channel level and keep the bass tight and sound smooth. Have a play with the channel level for the subwoofer after the auto setup and see what sounds good to your ears.
Once the speakers have run in, you'll probably need to re-run the auto setup. The subwoofer is a little underwhelming when you first use it, but it gets better the more you use it. In addition to me i think RickyDeg also found the subwoofer the same when he initially purchased the AW12?
Have fun, you'll love the Apex package, especially with a Denon.
Follow Ricky's suggestions. For the Audyssey XT32, the config is a little different and when the subwoofer is being setup you'll probably end up turning the volume level to very low on the subwoofer. During the automatic setup the subwoofer will make subtle noises. Ignore the Denon handbook where it says move the volume dial to 12 o'clock position. During the auto setup follow the calibration settings on the TV, the correct channel level for the subwoofer for XT32 will turn green on the screen.
After the setup, if you think you need to increase the channel level of the subwoofer (as i did), do NOT turn the subwoofer volume up from the subwoofer's volume dial. Do it from the Amp in the channel level settings. This is what Audyssey recommend when i contacted them directly. If you do it from the dial, the bass will get messy as i experienced. Doing it through your Denon i.e. turning it up to 0db, will increase the channel level and keep the bass tight and sound smooth. Have a play with the channel level for the subwoofer after the auto setup and see what sounds good to your ears.
Once the speakers have run in, you'll probably need to re-run the auto setup. The subwoofer is a little underwhelming when you first use it, but it gets better the more you use it. In addition to me i think RickyDeg also found the subwoofer the same when he initially purchased the AW12?
Have fun, you'll love the Apex package, especially with a Denon.
Just want to say what an excellent service I have recieved from Mointor Audio. My dog broke one of my Apex A10 floor stand speakers. He squeeze down the back of the sofa and sent it crashing to the ground. It broke the L shaped bracket head in half and the speaker was hanging off.
I contacted Monitor Audio thinking I would be told that there was nothing they could do and I would need to buy a new set but Karen sent out a replacement part free of charge and everything is now back to normal.
I contacted Monitor Audio thinking I would be told that there was nothing they could do and I would need to buy a new set but Karen sent out a replacement part free of charge and everything is now back to normal.
magmax said:
Thats what I'd like to call brilliant customer care! Makes investing in Monitor Audio speakers all the more comforting. Great you got it solved.
Lets just hope your doggie learned himself a lesson 😉
I am about to join the APEX club, and still hesitant about which Amp to match it with.
I will use it 60% for home cinema and 40% for music, and was looking at the Pioneer LX85 vs the Onkyo TNR-3009.
unfortunately, I leave 800km from the nearest auditorium that would carry any of these, so I have to rely on posts and advices.
Any hint of which would be the best match for the APEX set ?
I will use it 60% for home cinema and 40% for music, and was looking at the Pioneer LX85 vs the Onkyo TNR-3009.
unfortunately, I leave 800km from the nearest auditorium that would carry any of these, so I have to rely on posts and advices.
Any hint of which would be the best match for the APEX set ?
michael hoy
Well-known member
- Oct 6, 2008
- 796
- 280
- 19,270
millot128 said:
As you may or may not have seen I've written a few personal views on a number of receivers and how I liked/disliked them with the Apex. I tried Pioneer SC-LX83, Anthem MRX700 and Primare SPA22, and none of them managed to win me over enough to make me replace my soon 4-year old Denon AVR-3808 (much thanks to the brilliant Audyssey + Dynamic EQ). Atleast consider having a peak at Denon AVR-4311 if you can. The topic of what is best to drive these speakers with (or ANY speaker for that matter) depends greatly on ones personal taste and preference, there's just no way around that. Those who claim amps or receivers dont sound as different to eachother as speakers do have not been very observant, lol. If at all possible ask for a home-trial period to make sure you get the most of your investment. Remember; the Apex bloom with quality gear to drive them. No question! Good luck on finding your 'perfect' match, and let us know what you chose!
Thank you all for your inputs.
I have finally settled on the Onkyo 3009, mainly for the XT32 calibration.
Best regards,
I have finally settled on the Onkyo 3009, mainly for the XT32 calibration.
Best regards,
Hi all. New joiner to he forums but been reading the mag for years. I am now also the proud owner of an invoice that say "4 sats, a centre, and a sub from the apex speaker range!'. Gets delivered wednesday so can't wait. 🙂
Quick query though. My room has QED micro speaker cable running under the hardwood floor from when we moved in for my current system but am concerned it might be too lightweight for these speakers. Unfortunately I can't replace as the floor is fully fixed, so option is to either use as is or look at 25m x2 or so of speaker cable to run round the whole room (have a doorway or a walkthrough arch to contend with!).
Any thoughts on whether I need to upgrade I will it be sufficient for now? Note this is no for the rears.
Thanks in advance (does it feel like Xmas to anyone else...??) 🙂
Quick query though. My room has QED micro speaker cable running under the hardwood floor from when we moved in for my current system but am concerned it might be too lightweight for these speakers. Unfortunately I can't replace as the floor is fully fixed, so option is to either use as is or look at 25m x2 or so of speaker cable to run round the whole room (have a doorway or a walkthrough arch to contend with!).
Any thoughts on whether I need to upgrade I will it be sufficient for now? Note this is no for the rears.
Thanks in advance (does it feel like Xmas to anyone else...??) 🙂
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
- Mar 23, 2009
- 2,610
- 1,087
- 22,570
Hi Pmcclean18
Nice one 8)
I'll recommend using simple 500 multistrand OFC speaker cables as Apex speakers work a treat with these speaker cables. Fwiw, I also use these speaker cables with Platinum Series PL300AV & PL200AV speaker systems.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Nice one 8)
I'll recommend using simple 500 multistrand OFC speaker cables as Apex speakers work a treat with these speaker cables. Fwiw, I also use these speaker cables with Platinum Series PL300AV & PL200AV speaker systems.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Thanks Rick. Advice much appreciated.
Is this the sort of thing you mean? http://www.cabling4less.co.uk/category.php?cat_id=195&gclid=CODRpvjQqa8CFc0htAodK3qjXQ
Cheers
Pete
Is this the sort of thing you mean? http://www.cabling4less.co.uk/category.php?cat_id=195&gclid=CODRpvjQqa8CFc0htAodK3qjXQ
Cheers
Pete
Is anyone else running their AW-12 sub in 'EQ-2' mode? Having more or less neglected the EQ-setting since I got my Apex-sytem 10 months ago I've now played around with it for about a week and I must say I'm even more impressed by the subwoofer now. Overall presence when watching movies have increased. Bass-depth and 'slam' is enhanced, yet localizing the subs (I use two of them) is thankfully still a non-issue. I'm guessing the bass-boost by 'EQ-2' might sound boomy or over-the-top in certain rooms, but in mine it seems to work well (despite corner placement). It works with plain music aswell, which surprised me a bit.
Seems this handsome little gem have "hidden" talents up its sleeve and all I had to do was push a small button on top.
Can't wait to see what performance enhancement Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might bring, with its more advanced subwoofer-control and calibration. Just gotta pick a suitable machine to test.
Seems this handsome little gem have "hidden" talents up its sleeve and all I had to do was push a small button on top.
Can't wait to see what performance enhancement Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might bring, with its more advanced subwoofer-control and calibration. Just gotta pick a suitable machine to test.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
- Mar 23, 2009
- 2,610
- 1,087
- 22,570
RickyDeg said:Is anyone else running their AW-12 sub in 'EQ-2' mode? Having more or less neglected the EQ-setting since I got my Apex-sytem 10 months ago I've now played around with it for about a week and I must say I'm even more impressed by the subwoofer now. Overall presence when watching movies have increased. Bass-depth and 'slam' is enhanced, yet localizing the subs (I use two of them) is thankfully still a non-issue. I'm guessing the bass-boost by 'EQ-2' might sound boomy or over-the-top in certain rooms, but in mine it seems to work well (despite corner placement). It works with plain music aswell, which surprised me a bit.
Seems this handsome little gem have "hidden" talents up its sleeve and all I had to do was push a small button on top.
Can't wait to see what performance enhancement Audyssey MultEQ XT32 might bring, with its more advanced subwoofer-control and calibration. Just gotta pick a suitable machine to test.
Hi RickyDeg
Good to hear that you are even more pleased with the performance of you AW-12's using EQ2 🙂 I personally find the AW-12 with EQ1 offers a more linear output.
Anyway, you and your XT32
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
- Jun 27, 2008
- 567
- 1
- 18,890
millot128 said:
You'll not be disappointed millot128 - the XT32 will ensure you get the best out of your Apex system regardless of your room type or speaker placement 🙂
Hi all,
Thanks for the advice with regards to the speaker cable. In case you are interested I found this in eBay and bought some:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10m-Loud-Speaker-Cable-Oxygen-Free-OFC-4mm-532-Strand-/350187678868?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item5188cfec94#ht_2510wt_741
Will let you know how I get on - speakers get delivered today!!!!
Thanks for the advice with regards to the speaker cable. In case you are interested I found this in eBay and bought some:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10m-Loud-Speaker-Cable-Oxygen-Free-OFC-4mm-532-Strand-/350187678868?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item5188cfec94#ht_2510wt_741
Will let you know how I get on - speakers get delivered today!!!!
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