The Apex Club

[Anonymous]

Hi All

I had a demo on Monday of these wonderful small stylish gems. As you can tell I was very impressed by them and will be placing a order come April, but I'm still not sure which amp to go for Pioneer LX75 or Onkyo 809?

As for the crossover values, should it not be set to 60hz as the A10 can go as low as 60hz?

 

[Anonymous]

Doh!

 

[RickyDeg]

As for the crossover values, should it not be set to 60hz as the A10 can go as low as 60hz?

As always the prefered cut-off will depend more on how the speaker in question performs in your particular room, how you've placed them and what your ears tell you rather than what the manufacturer has specified them at. It is often recommended not to set cut-off lower than what the specification is, but that may not always be the case in every situation. Your room and what your speakers make of it is a far bigger factor. In some rooms a low cut-off might make the sound come off as 'boomy' or 'thick', while in other rooms a higher cut-off will make it sound 'thin' or 'lightweight'.

The key is to find balance and a smooth transition between satellites and subwoofer and not to "overload" your satellites with low-frequencies they cannot handle/reproduce well in your room. As stated earlier most people use the 80Hz frequency cut-off as a startingpoint. It's not without reason THX recommend that setting for all kinds of speakers (naturally their own certified speakers first and foremost). Not that THX has the last word. Experiment to find your prefered balance!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Ricky

Thank you for explaining.

Can you advise me with what amp I should consider getting and if you have any thoughts on the pioneer LX75.

 

[RickyDeg]

Can you advise me with what amp I should consider getting and if you have any thoughts on the pioneer LX75.

Oh, I dare not go down the road of amp/receiver recommendation

It's such an extremely personal preference, as everything else. All I can say is I've tested a bunch of A/V amps the last 8 months (Pioneer SC-LX83, Anthem MRX700 and Primare SPA22 HD), all of which I've reviewed in this very thread. Sadly none of them gave me better performance with Apex than my soon 4-year old Denon AVR-3808, funny enough. I put this down to the 'warm' amp character and the inclusion of Audyssey MultEQ with its potent Dynamic EQ. I've found it hard to manage without those, for sure, but only because they suit my personal taste. Others dont like it. My tip is simply; try find a dealer who will let you test samples for home-trial, with a right-to-return/exchange agreement. I've been lucky with that myself, and its been great. Sadly for him I didn't keep any of them. My Denon will stay with me at least a little bit longer.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi All

I had a demo on Monday of these wonderful small stylish gems. As you can tell I was very impressed by them and will be placing a order come April, but I'm still not sure which amp to go for Pioneer LX75 or Onkyo 809?

As for the crossover values, should it not be set to 60hz as the A10 can go as low as 60hz?

Hi SLICKMOTION

Nice one :clap:

I'll recommend that you should also consider Yamaha's Aventage RX-A2010. The RX-A2010's quantity and importantly quality of power, performance and its tonal balance help the RX-A2010 to match Apex speakers just nicely

Btw, experiment with the crossover points between 60Hz - 120Hz. If it helps all the Apex A10's and A40's which i've used/set up in various rooms have all been at 80hz and some of my other clients tell me they have set crosover points from 80Hz to no more then 100Hz.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Amadeus1756]

Can you advise me with what amp I should consider getting and if you have any thoughts on the pioneer LX75.

I think I'm in the same boat as you (tho the Apex speakers are a little bigger than I was hoping for). It seems that the Pioneer isn't genercally considered a good match for the Apex, but I've not found any recommendations as to style speakers (i.e. small) that it *does* match so I'm not sure where to go from here. The Pioneer has all the functionality I want, the Yamaha doesn't. :?

 

[michael hoy]

Can you advise me with what amp I should consider getting and if you have any thoughts on the pioneer LX75.

I think I'm in the same boat as you (tho the Apex speakers are a little bigger than I was hoping for). It seems that the Pioneer isn't genercally considered a good match for the Apex, but I've not found any recommendations as to style speakers (i.e. small) that it *does* match so I'm not sure where to go from here. The Pioneer has all the functionality I want, the Yamaha doesn't. :?

I have the Pioneer SC-LX85 with these speakers and I can say without any doubt that the Pioneer amps do match very well with the Apex speakers.

I previously had a LX72 and had no issues with that either.

Pioneer amps are not bright sounding as some would let you believe.

Audition and make your own mind up.

 

[Amadeus1756]

I have the Pioneer SC-LX85 with these speakers and I can say without any doubt that the Pioneer amps do match very well with the Apex speakers.

Hi Michael,

I was aware that you considered it a good match, but I think *generally* a lot of people think they're not.

Having said that, if you like it, there is certainly a possibility that I will like it, so I am looking to get a proper demo but I really want to have a number of speakers to audition so I have something to compare and contrast and I don't just want something to make up the numbers.

I'll certainly let you know what I find when I've had an audition tho.

Appreciate your input.

rgds

 

[Ian986]

Well if you have made your mind up on the apex speakers then should be easy to have a demo on a few recievers I went for the Onkyo which did seem to sound better than pioneer, but was in different shops so set up might have not been the same

Just make sure they run set with mic on both amps you are trying , let us know how you get on !

 

[RickyDeg]

I have the Pioneer SC-LX85 with these speakers and I can say without any doubt that the Pioneer amps do match very well with the Apex speakers.

I previously had a LX72 and had no issues with that either.

Pioneer amps are not bright sounding as some would let you believe.

Audition and make your own mind up.

Michael, how would you describe the different amp section in this new model, and in particular what it brings to the table with Apex? I've heard from reviewers that Pioneers new amp section it's slightly 'warmer' with more 'weight' and 'ooomph' than the ICEPower one they utilized before. As you may remember I had no great personal experience trying the SC-LX83 with Apex last summer. A local magazine I trust recently reviewed the Apex with the SC-LX85 and highly praised the combo.

 

[michael hoy]

I have the Pioneer SC-LX85 with these speakers and I can say without any doubt that the Pioneer amps do match very well with the Apex speakers.

I previously had a LX72 and had no issues with that either.

Pioneer amps are not bright sounding as some would let you believe.

Audition and make your own mind up.

Michael, how would you describe the different amp section in this new model, and in particular what it brings to the table with Apex? I've heard from reviewers that Pioneers new amp section it's slightly 'warmer' with more 'weight' and 'ooomph' than the ICEPower one they utilized before. As you may remember I had no great personal experience trying the SC-LX83 with Apex last summer. A local magazine I trust recently reviewed the Apex with the SC-LX85 and highly praised the combo.

Hi Ricky,

I also think the 85 does sound warmer than the 72 I had, it also brought a more direct sound.

Listening to a Sting Live Blu Ray that I had previously listened to on the 72 the voices and placement of the voices were clear and pinpoint in their placement.

It is hard to judge whether it is the change from ICE Power to DirectFet that has made this difference or whether it is the higher spec model over the older 72.

The 85 certainly does have a tight grip on the sound and the bass is very controlled.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello all.

I am new poster here (but have been very busy reading a lot) and after reading tons of reviews and user comments I have finally decided to buy the APEX system, sight unseen and unheard. Unfortunately, I am unable to find a dealer to audition even halfway close by so I am going by the rave reviews and am hoping for the best (but from what I have read, I should not worry about that).

I will also add the Denon AVR4311. It is somewhat hard to decide on all of this unheard but from what I have read so far, I will be more than happy (considering I am still living with an old pair of Elipson Orphee speakers from 1995).

So here is my question that I hope someone can help me with...

I do not have space for a 7.1 or 7.2 set up so I will settle for the traditional 5.x. The only question is whether I should go for a 5.1 or a 5.2 setup. I am planning on the white version (5.1) but the dealer has a black AW12 subwoofer display model and it is marked down with a 25% off the new price so I was wondering if I should go and get that as well. The black colour doesn't bother me as it would be placed on a side where it will not be prominent.

Does the 2nd subwoofer make sense in a 5.x set-up ? Or should I rather think about using that money and not buy the AW12 but instead another subwoofer? Or save money instead and just be happy with 5.1 ?

Thank you for any input

 

[Anonymous]

..sorry... double post

 

[RickyDeg]

Hello all.

I am new poster here (but have been very busy reading a lot) and after reading tons of reviews and user comments I have finally decided to buy the APEX system, sight unseen and unheard. Unfortunately, I am unable to find a dealer to audition even halfway close by so I am going by the rave reviews and am hoping for the best (but from what I have read, I should not worry about that).

I will also add the Denon AVR4311. It is somewhat hard to decide on all of this unheard but from what I have read so far, I will be more than happy (considering I am still living with an old pair of Elipson Orphee speakers from 1995).

So here is my question that I hope someone can help me with...

I do not have space for a 7.1 or 7.2 set up so I will settle for the traditional 5.x. The only question is whether I should go for a 5.1 or a 5.2 setup. I am planning on the white version (5.1) but the dealer has a black AW12 subwoofer display model and it is marked down with a 25% off the new price so I was wondering if I should go and get that as well. The black colour doesn't bother me as it would be placed on a side where it will not be prominent.

Does the 2nd subwoofer make sense in a 5.x set-up ? Or should I rather think about using that money and not buy the AW12 but instead another subwoofer? Or save money instead and just be happy with 5.1 ?

Thank you for any input

Congrats to an excellent choice, moi_Mya! We'll all be happy to welcome you to the club!

Any purchase without a demo is a bit of a dare, and especially speakers I'd say since they influence the sound of your system more than anything else in the chain. But as a very happy Apex owner myself I'm sure you will find plenty to admire here! In terms of getting that 2nd AW-12 subwoofer I'll simply say this: start off with just one (5.1) and see how you get on with that first and how the bass is reproduced in your room after lots of tweeking. If you feel your room needs a better blend and 'dispersion' of low frequencies a 2nd subwoofer can help. You wont get more bass, per se, but the perception of bass can be greatly improved upon with additional subwoofers. However, placement is as always essential. Some say subwoofers are not sensitive to placement, but I say it depends on the character of the room and how the sub interacts with it more than anything.

I started off with an Apex 5.1 configuration, then added 2 more A10 satellies then finally a 2nd AW-12 subwoofer. It did work great in my room, and low frequencies are now harder to localize and dispersion of the bass is terrific. It feels as though all bass is coming from the small satellite speakers and not two dedicated enclosures. Surely, Denon and its Audyssey with Dynamic EQ help out greatly here, without doubt! I did have to play around a bit with individual placement though.

Good luck with your purchase & keep us informed!

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you RickyDeg

I fully understand the need to listen in first but I am a bit 'challenged' when it comes to finding a location to audition them so I am going with my gut here. I have decided to leave the 2nd subwoofer out for now. The money might come in handy otherwise.

I am using my PS3 as a BluRay player but am wondering if I should consider 'upgrading' to a Denon DBP2012UD instead. I am not in need of lots of options on the player so I am curious as to whether it is worth upgrading or not as I am only looking for better sound and image. Alternatively I might use the money to buy more BluRay discs...

Thanks again

 

[RickyDeg]

Thank you RickyDeg

I fully understand the need to listen in first but I am a bit 'challenged' when it comes to finding a location to audition them so I am going with my gut here. I have decided to leave the 2nd subwoofer out for now. The money might come in handy otherwise.

I am using my PS3 as a BluRay player but am wondering if I should consider 'upgrading' to a Denon DBP2012UD instead. I am not in need of lots of options on the player so I am curious as to whether it is worth upgrading or not as I am only looking for better sound and image. Alternatively I might use the money to buy more BluRay discs...

Thanks again

I would definitely partner your new Denon receiver with a new Blu-ray player, and another Denon to match would be cool. I use to own one of Denons first Blu-ray players, the DVD-2500BT, which was built like a tank and wonderful (but slow). I recently switched to an Oppo, but I miss the Denons brilliant build-quality and the sound was a tad bit sweeter as well if I remember correctly. You will definitely notice an improvement switching from PS3 to the Denon DBP2012UD, there's not doubt whatsoever about that in my opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

I did it...

I just placed my order with 2 different companies. 5.1 Apex 'kit' (black), 4 stands for the A10s - roughly 3 weeks delivery time.

Denon DBP2012-UD (black) and Denon AVR4311 (black) will be arriving during next week.

The Apex speakers and stands will be sent to me from France. Cheaper prices, great EUR exchange rate and VAT return means these will come in around 40% cheaper than prices in Switzerland (after discount). So that should make waiting 20 days worth it.

The Denon DBP and AVR are price-wise close enough to Euroland so I decided to buy them in Switzerland which will make it a bit easier should I ever have to send them in for warranty.

I am an instant-gratification persion so "the great wait" has never been a strength of mine, but I am planning to keep telling myself that it will be well worth it.

 

[RickyDeg]

I did it...

I just placed my order with 2 different companies. 5.1 Apex 'kit' (black), 4 stands for the A10s - roughly 3 weeks delivery time.

Denon DBP2012-UD (black) and Denon AVR4311 (black) will be arriving during next week.

The Apex speakers and stands will be sent to me from France. Cheaper prices, great EUR exchange rate and VAT return means these will come in around 40% cheaper than prices in Switzerland (after discount). So that should make waiting 20 days worth it.

The Denon DBP and AVR are price-wise close enough to Euroland so I decided to buy them in Switzerland which will make it a bit easier should I ever have to send them in for warranty.

I am an instant-gratification persion so "the great wait" has never been a strength of mine, but I am planning to keep telling myself that it will be well worth it.

Couldnt possibly imagine being let-down by the combination you've chosen, so congrats!

That receiver model of Denon and its Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Dynamic EQ will bring out great things from Apex. There are other owners who will varify this aswell. I have a similar combo myself, although with a slightly simpler version of Audyssey. Denon and Audyssey deliver a engrossing level of 'fullness' and 'liveliness' which has been hard to find elsewhere. Having tested Pioneer SC-LX83, Anthem MRX700 and Primare SPA22 HD with Apex over the last year I've found that none of them triumph over Denon. This is my personal preference though.

The long delivery-time aside, remember you'll have to play Apex for several hundred hours before they reach their full performance-level. So all-in-all I'd say you'd have to be a very patient person, hehe. Atleast you are likely to have great fun during the running in. Keep us posted.

 

[Ian986]

I just have to say I connected up the rears tonight what a difference they make, I read a few post on here, saying how it made it so much better on films. I really cant believe how much better it is and have not even re done the speaker setting.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Ian986

Nice one 8)

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[gosalh]

Hi moi_Mya

I have the Denon AVR-A100 which is very similar to the 4311, and i can confirm that it is a perfect match for the Apex. The Audyssey MultEQ XT32 made a big difference to my ears comparing it to the MultEQ XT.

As everyone has already stated, the more you use the Apex the better they will sound. I bought the Oppo 95 bluray player a couple of months ago which im still running in. But i find the soundstage improving and getting wider, richer with detail and depth as both the Oppo and the Apex are still running in. The AW-12 also packs a punch!!

 

[RickyDeg]

Hi moi_Mya

I have the Denon AVR-A100 which is very similar to the 4311, and i can confirm that it is a perfect match for the Apex. The Audyssey MultEQ XT32 made a big difference to my ears comparing it to the MultEQ XT.

As everyone has already stated, the more you use the Apex the better they will sound. I bought the Oppo 95 bluray player a couple of months ago which im still running in. But i find the soundstage improving and getting wider, richer with detail and depth as both the Oppo and the Apex are still running in. The AW-12 also packs a punch!!

gosalh, are your Apex sampels still being run-in after all this time? lol

Hmmm..... curious, hehe

 

[Anonymous]

Hi All

I need some help on speaker placement. Is it ok to ceiling mount front and rear speakers in the 4 corners of a room pointing down?

 

[RickyDeg]

Hi All

I need some help on speaker placement. Is it ok to ceiling mount front and rear speakers in the 4 corners of a room pointing down?

Speakerplacement is a tricky subject. But there are some general guidelines that often help to create a good "soundbubble". I've experimented alot with placement in my days. More often than not do placing speakers in a circular layout around your listeningspot seem benificial, and with each speaker more or less on a similar plane (height) and distance. All this depends greatly on how your room looks and what it allows, and how it is furnished of course.

However, I would stay away from mounting the front (A10) satellites too far off from the center (A40) both in terms of width-distance and height. To place the 3 front-trio of speakers in a more unified way (similar plane, similar height) closer to the screen is often ideal. This can give you a more coherent sound from around your screen and towards you. The rear can sometimes benifit by the added 'space' of greater distance and/or height, but it completely depends on the room and where you sit. As always - the best advice I can give is to experiment as much as you possibly can before you settle on a permanent placement. Allow it to take time and effort because it can often prove rewarding in the end. After all, you wanna get the most out of your investment, right? Remember, your room and how the speakers interact within it will effect the end-result just as much as the placement of the speakers themselves.

Good luck!!!