The 10% cable spend

[podknocker]

For the cost of some of these "boutique" cables you could buy a set of top quality ATC Actives, that would, produce a sound close to perfection in 99% of forum members listening rooms...

I would opt for the KEF LS60 wireless, if I had the space and funds. A few cables, but very elegant and minimalist.

 

[Noddy]

Oddly enough I splashed out a small fortune on some new cable earlier in the week, and fitted it yesterday. I chose 2.5 mm wide Cu core to replace 1.3 mm Cu core. The old cable was in unequal lengths, which is not advisable even though it probably makes zero real difference.

Did it change the sound? Of course not. But I did not expect the placebo effect to be so strong, no wonder some people delude themselves into hearing changes.

It cost £1.50 a meter from KabelDirek, so £15 for ten meters, it’s a it of a luxury but you only live once. The system cost £1,600, so less than 1% spend on speaker cable. The streamer is fed by wifi, so no cables, and I didn’t consider filling the sitting room with audiophile grade air to improve the audio over wifi connection. Not yet anyway.

It’s hardly surprising shops love audiophile cables, they can have huge profit margins. I despair when I see systems with huge snake like cables. I also despair at other audiophile obsessions such as over engineered hifi racks. I used to run, and I wore cheap clothes and didn’t need any water. Now I see people in expensive running gear, carrying a water bottle, cos the shops and magazines promote the stuff.

I suppose it’s all harmless, it stimulates the economy, a voluntary tax for the rich.

 

[nopiano]

I would opt for the KEF LS60 wireless, if I had the space and funds. A few cables, but very elegant and minimalist.

I’m looking forward to hearing those, as I unfortunately missed the Bristol Show.

 

[WayneKerr]

I’m looking forward to hearing those, as I unfortunately missed the Bristol Show.

I've never heard them but did see them in Sevenoaks window, quite appealing, but also strange skinny things at the same time. Definitely got the look of a lifestyle product to me.

 

[AJM1981]

Physics cannot explain why some people think they can hear posh cables. I'm on the side of physics.

I believe people think they can hear the difference, but these believers are never testing blind, under controlled conditions.

Anyone can say it sounds better, but surely you should be required to prove it and explain why.

If someone was under test conditions and could hear the difference between a £5 and £5000 cable, every single time, then I would change my opinion and be in awe of their magical hearing.

Nobody has ever come forward, on this forum and presented proof that expensive, snake oil cables make a difference.

Indeed

A cable connects or doesn't connect (leaving polarity issues or reversed stereo aside). Simply put: Audio or no audio. There is no in between.

And that is what all cables do 100% well and when I connect it I leave it.

Sound is not a thing but there are Pro's to the thicker expensive cables.
- aesthetics
- sturdy plugs which are great for quick switches of systems
- less chance of getting entangled
- The bananaplugs are most likely not heavier than the cable it serves, so the chance of them loosening and eventually disconnecting after an above average frequency of replugging is extremely low.

I would definitely get £5000 cables if I had to demo various speakers for a brand presentation and those cables would come out the best in stress testing.

 

[podknocker]

I can't imagine why a cable would need to cost £5000 unless it was made from rare metals, but that wouldn't be necessary.

The only stress testing I could think of, would be sending 20 amps down the cable, to see if it could withstand powerful amplifiers and speakers with crazy impedance figures.

I bought expensive TQ Ultra Blue speaker cables, as they are easy to route and don't get tangled up.

 

[AJM1981]

I can't imagine why a cable would need to cost £5000 unless it was made from rare metals, but that wouldn't be necessary.

The only stress testing I could think of, would be sending 20 amps down the cable, to see if it could withstand powerful amplifiers and speakers with crazy impedance figures.

I bought expensive TQ Ultra Blue speaker cables, as they are easy to route and don't get tangled up.

This was a specific "if" situation. These kind of sturdy cables in which the mantle outweighs the bananaplugs are there for much less than that price. Under a 100 is reasonable and can be made fot much less even.

 

[Noddy]

I can't imagine why a cable would need to cost £5000 unless it was made from rare metals, but that wouldn't be necessary.

Continual upgrading due to hedonic adaptation (yes, I had to look that phrase up too) with a side order of neuroticism.

I wonder how many wonder cable buyers were Russian oligarchs?

 

[Gray]

I can't imagine why a cable would need to cost £5000

Of course it doesn't.
Such ludicrous items serve only one purpose - that of making other things seem like bargains,

Earlier, I read the full details of Audiolab's 7000A which, before any discount, is £1,100.
We all know non-hifi people that would think it ridiculous to spend even that much on an amp.
But, with a bit of knowledge, look at what you're actually getting with that amp.

Now compare the likely benefit it could bring, with a cable costing four and a half times as much money.
See....these things designed for people with more money than sense, they do serve some purpose.

...although I can hear my non hifi brother telling me that "two wrongs don't make a right" 🤨

 

[AJM1981]

I bet that when one of us would start a youtube channel, converting to a 'fancy cable recommender' is one of the painful rabbit holes to dive into in order to keep all followers aboard. I can imagine the amount of resistance the average serious hi-fi enthoustic influencer gets.

 

[Symples]

Having a lot of pictures in digital format. I have decided to produce hard copies of them.
Rather than use me usual inkjet. I decided to purchase a new printer.

Canon Pixma Pro 200

It is a monster of a printer and produces excellent results.
I know..... you're wondering what this has to do with cables?

Well I decided to purchase a high quality cable.
AudioQuest Coffee USB A-B Cable Black 1.5 M

I thought the printer produced excellent results before with a standard USB cable, but with the new cable it is on another level.
Blacks are deeper, colours are richer. There tends to be more warmth to the picture. There is more excitement and the detail is incredible. Minute details which I| had not noticed before, become apparent. There is a 3D depth to the pictures. You feel that you could almost reach in and grab things.
Things only improved after I had run the cable in for about 20 plus hours. The pictures simply leapt out at me.

I'm talking bollox... I paid £7.99 for a 2 meter USB A-B and it works perfectly well
Though I have bought the printer and I simply love it..


PS.... wait until I buy a new mains cable. Then we'll see quality

 

[bigfish786]

Now I’ve upgraded a few components my rough total value of the hifi is around 18k. I would think it totally unnecessary to spend £1800 on cables. I spent £75 on some Black Rhodium XLR interconnects, and I think that’s enough. The chord co speaker cables were £50 second hand. To me they both sound fantastic.
I still have some chord Clearway rca that are still connected but never used, so I could sell those to cover the cost of the XLR if I wanted.

 

[Noddy]

Now I’ve upgraded a few components my rough total value of the hifi is around 18k. I would think it totally unnecessary to spend £1800 on cables. I spent £75 on some Black Rhodium XLR interconnects, and I think that’s enough. The chord co speaker cables were £50 second hand. To me they both sound fantastic.
I still have some chord Clearway rca that are still connected but never used, so I could sell those to cover the cost of the XLR if I wanted.

Noone actually buys £1800 cables, the manufacturer markets them in order to convince us that £100 speaker cables are a bargain, when in reality £10 will buy you some very spiffy speaker cable, albeit not resembling a blue intestinal worm. Marketing psychology, it’s fiendish.

 

[gasolin]

I bough a cheap preamp and needed a mono sub cable, guess what, i payed more for the cable than the preamp ( shipping was extra), still not to horrible,expensive.

The point is, as long as you buy quality you don't need to go expensive but i personally almost never buy super cheap cables since i want a little extra in durability- It won't brake the bank to get something above stock quality that will last a long time (i have to many cables)

 

[gasolin]

Noone actually buys £1800 cables, the manufacturer markets them in order to convince us that £100 speaker cables are a bargain, when in reality £10 will buy you some very spiffy speaker cable, albeit not resembling a blue intestinal worm. Marketing psychology, it’s fiendish.

Once bought Qed Silver Anniversary XT for less than 5 euros as well as qed xt 25 aorund 5 euros pr meter, you don't have to pay a fortune to get " reference cables", cables above stock quality

 

[hifi]

A cheap plug with a bad connection and interference and bad wiring makes a big diffrence .

 

[Horowitz]

Over the years I have found this can only be achieved by spending cash on kit, not cables.

My experience too, in general WK (!)... but with one major exception.
Against my better judgement, a mate at Superfi persuaded me to buy 4 speaker 'jumper' cables a few years ago. I said 'only if I can return them for a refund if I hear no significant improvement'. Remarkably this was agreed, and I handed over c. £75 for these 4" bits of wire (the Boss thought I was bonkers until I explained the 'deal'). Back home, a few hours later, jumpers fitted... and all thoughts of snake oil had totally evaporated. Not just for me, but for the Queen of Sceptics, too! The difference was astonishing and I reluctantly decided that they had to stay.
I suppose it's possible that spending daft money on speaker cable improvements might have a similar dramatic result, but I've never been flush enough to risk it (there IS a limit to my occasional rash spending on hi-fi)!! ATM I'm still perfectly happy with my (relatively) cheap Van Damme blue speaker cable

 

[plastic penguin]

I don't really think you can calculate 10% of the cost of your system. By that I mean if there's a particular cable that sounds the biz, assuming it's inside your allotted budget, you tend to buy it.

The collective costs of all my cables I guess goes well over the 10% of my system (or certainly did before the Dalis), which makes a mockery of the 10%ers

 

[abacus]

My experience too, in general WK (!)... but with one major exception.
Against my better judgement, a mate at Superfi persuaded me to buy 4 speaker 'jumper' cables a few years ago. I said 'only if I can return them for a refund if I hear no significant improvement'. Remarkably this was agreed, and I handed over c. £75 for these 4" bits of wire (the Boss thought I was bonkers until I explained the 'deal'). Back home, a few hours later, jumpers fitted... and all thoughts of snake oil had totally evaporated. Not just for me, but for the Queen of Sceptics, too! The difference was astonishing and I reluctantly decided that they had to stay.
I suppose it's possible that spending daft money on speaker cable improvements might have a similar dramatic result, but I've never been flush enough to risk it (there IS a limit to my occasional rash spending on hi-fi)!! ATM I'm still perfectly happy with my (relatively) cheap Van Damme blue speaker cable

I presume you used a level matched double blind test to eliminate the placebo effect.

Bill

 

[12th Monkey]

I doubt that you do make such a presumption.

 

[Al ears]

I presume you used a level matched double blind test to eliminate the placebo effect.

Bill

Obviously the wife /partner was the double blind bit....
I once got given some very nice, and expensive, Chord biwire jumper leads and didn't have the heart to tell the provider that I had promptly sold them on eBay because they made no discernable difference whatsoever.
Still, they did help fund my new cartridge so happy days!

 

[robdmarsh]

My comment wasn't a statement in black and white, and neither being an endorsement, but I'll give you a concrete example:

It's a known fact that Naim seperates sounded better with their own interconnects, speaker cables and optional power cables.

The corollary of what you say is also true, for those who do hear differences:

1. They're snobs
2. They have expectation bias.
3. Their ears are deceiving them (we should hear with our brains, not ears)
4. We're experiencing the placebo effect
5. We haven't done adequate a/b testing.

To put it more succinctly - the usual damn BS when any side tries to shove their view on the other at all costs, not allowing for any light or shade.

Here, here well-said! And in my experience it's the "objectivists" who are more dogmatic and ready to the shoving...

 

[JDL]

I’ve seen this many times on whf about spending 10%+ of your budget on cables.
that would give me around £800 to spend on speaker cable and an interconnect.
I think I did it for under 1% of total outlay.
thrifty old me 🤣
Has anyone ever done the 10% thing? Or more?
I honestly don’t think I ever will.

I have Silver Anniversary bi wired to B&W 602 S3, running from my Marantz PM7200. It cost me £120 in 2006. Not quite 10%, but not far off. Love my sound though, no complaints.

 

[Gray]

I doubt that you do make such a presumption.

I don't presume anything.
I know, that you know that he knows that no blind testing was involved.

Which is a shame, as there are people willing to pay good money to witness such a seemingly impossible phenomenon.

 

[Gray]

The difference was astonishing

Really?
The difference in sound between the jumper plates and wire was 'astonishing'?
That must (surely) mean that you could easily and consistently, tell by ear alone whether plates or wires were doing the jumping?

It takes a lot to astonish me, but if you could do that, I would seriously, honestly be beyond astonished.