Are you interested in technical measurements/performance graphs when reading equipment reviews? Useful or Useless?
technical measurements/graphs
- Thread starter drummerman
- Start date
[quote user="drummerman"]
Are you interested in technical measurements/performance graphs when reading equipment reviews? Useful or Useless?
[/quote]
No
Are you interested in technical measurements/performance graphs when reading equipment reviews? Useful or Useless?
[/quote]
No
I do when occasionally I read reviews or want to buy something. Its not a deciding factor but I get sick pleasure out of knowing what power I can expect into a 2ohm load or whether distortion has 3 or 7 zero's after the dot. There's not always a correlation between good sound and good measurements but it can give hints on why a product sounds the way it does. Its also interesting to see how independent lab test results compare with manufacturers figures. Especially when it comes to speaker sensitivity ...
Very interested in both spec and listening tests.Would you want to be palmed off with a 50 watt amp when you paid for a 100 watt one? There is little audible difference.
to a certain extent, power out put and frequency response, but some of the graphs you get in e.g. stereophile just confuse me and don't really mean anything.
[quote user="fast eddie"]to a certain extent, power out put and frequency response, but some of the graphs you get in e.g. stereophile just confuse me and don't really mean anything.[/quote]
Do you mean you don't understand them so even those that do understand shouldn't have them?
Do you mean you don't understand them so even those that do understand shouldn't have them?
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
I agree - frequency response graphs (whilst not telling you how a speaker will ultimately sound) can give a good idea of whether the item of equipment is likely to be bright, warm, boxy-sounding etc...
Definitely useful.
Will make partnering easier. One speaker might have a bright spot at 15Khz. You might have two amps, one with a dull spot at 15Khz, the other at 12Khz. You want the second amp, but both are listed as 'good with bright speakers'. yanno.
Also, when you look at the impedance curve, you can see how difficult they might be to drive. If the impedance of an 8 ohm nominal speaker (measured at 1Khz) drops down to like 2 ohms at 40hz then you know the bass is gonna need a lot of power out of the amplifier. On the other hand, if it goes really high, like 16 ohms then you know that it will be easy to drive but perhaps lacking a little in clarity - relying more on the cabinet resonance to maintain the low end response than the driver motion. In actual fact, they all drop as you go down in frequency, pretty much, until you reach the speakers rolloff point.
Will make partnering easier. One speaker might have a bright spot at 15Khz. You might have two amps, one with a dull spot at 15Khz, the other at 12Khz. You want the second amp, but both are listed as 'good with bright speakers'. yanno.
Also, when you look at the impedance curve, you can see how difficult they might be to drive. If the impedance of an 8 ohm nominal speaker (measured at 1Khz) drops down to like 2 ohms at 40hz then you know the bass is gonna need a lot of power out of the amplifier. On the other hand, if it goes really high, like 16 ohms then you know that it will be easy to drive but perhaps lacking a little in clarity - relying more on the cabinet resonance to maintain the low end response than the driver motion. In actual fact, they all drop as you go down in frequency, pretty much, until you reach the speakers rolloff point.
[quote user="fr0g"]I am very interested. In the end if it can't be measured, it can't be heard... 
[/quote]
I mostly agree.
I do however believe that we do not have the complete suite of measurements that fully describe the sonic parameters we hear.
An example (for those old enough to remember). In the late 70's-early 80's, the Japanese brought out a large number of amplifiers with all sorts exotic negative feedback circuits. These gave distortion figures 0.000000001% or something like that. But when auditioned, they sounded terrible! (I don't mean just bad).
Also take the case of valve amps. These have relatively high distortion figures but most people who hear these amps love them.
In the case of cable, IMO I think that there is more to it then Capacitance, Inductance and Resistance or at least the simplistic mathematical models using these physical properties.
While its all well and good to simply trust to your ears, it must be remembered that the designers of the various bits of equipment rely very strongly on these measurement/graphs to develop their equipment.
From a user perspective, I think the measurements should be there. If you are not interested in them simply don't look at them.
[/quote]I mostly agree.
I do however believe that we do not have the complete suite of measurements that fully describe the sonic parameters we hear.
An example (for those old enough to remember). In the late 70's-early 80's, the Japanese brought out a large number of amplifiers with all sorts exotic negative feedback circuits. These gave distortion figures 0.000000001% or something like that. But when auditioned, they sounded terrible! (I don't mean just bad).
Also take the case of valve amps. These have relatively high distortion figures but most people who hear these amps love them.
In the case of cable, IMO I think that there is more to it then Capacitance, Inductance and Resistance or at least the simplistic mathematical models using these physical properties.
While its all well and good to simply trust to your ears, it must be remembered that the designers of the various bits of equipment rely very strongly on these measurement/graphs to develop their equipment.
From a user perspective, I think the measurements should be there. If you are not interested in them simply don't look at them.
Just to add what I said before I think this is completely barking up the wrong tree.
When WHF tested the New Naim 5i amp they played Moonlight Sonata and the testers were shocked as to how much it sounded like they were in a room with a piano. Now how can that be shown in a graph?jules.
When WHF tested the New Naim 5i amp they played Moonlight Sonata and the testers were shocked as to how much it sounded like they were in a room with a piano. Now how can that be shown in a graph?jules.
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
It probably can't. But bear in mind that they thought the 5i was nigh-on perfect. The graphs help a reader decide what to audition (NB, not decide what to buy) in more marginal situations...
[quote user="Eddy Current"]
........Would you want to be palmed off with a 50 watt amp when you paid for a 100 watt one? There is little audible difference.
[/quote]
Really? Surely that depends on the size of your room and the volume you listen at?
........Would you want to be palmed off with a 50 watt amp when you paid for a 100 watt one? There is little audible difference.
[/quote]
Really? Surely that depends on the size of your room and the volume you listen at?
[quote user="Eddy Current"]
[quote user="fast eddie"]to a certain extent, power out put and frequency response, but some of the graphs you get in e.g. stereophile just confuse me and don't really mean anything.[/quote]
Do you mean you don't understand them so even those that do understand shouldn't have them?
[/quote] Yes I meant I don't understand them - which isn't 100% true, I know what they are showing but putting that into a practical situation of 'what does that means it will sound like' is beyond me. I don't think I said (or implied) that those that understand/interpret them shouldn't have them...
Being that the question was
[quote user="fast eddie"]to a certain extent, power out put and frequency response, but some of the graphs you get in e.g. stereophile just confuse me and don't really mean anything.[/quote]
Do you mean you don't understand them so even those that do understand shouldn't have them?
[/quote] Yes I meant I don't understand them - which isn't 100% true, I know what they are showing but putting that into a practical situation of 'what does that means it will sound like' is beyond me. I don't think I said (or implied) that those that understand/interpret them shouldn't have them...
Being that the question was
one can only speak from their own perspective, not giving a sweeping statement for everyone.
I do find it very usefull, HiFi Choice for instance conducts tests and tells how the impendance dips of a speaker for instance, and measures it ease of drivability, and compares it to the specs the manufacturer provided.
German magazine Audio always shows how a speaker can be placed, i.e. near a wall, in a corner and in what kind of room (size nd lay-out). And imho, this kind of info is very, very usefull.
German magazine Audio always shows how a speaker can be placed, i.e. near a wall, in a corner and in what kind of room (size nd lay-out). And imho, this kind of info is very, very usefull.
[quote user="Jan Hibma"]HiFi Choice for instance[/quote]
We're quite strict on swearing on this forum
We're quite strict on swearing on this forum
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