System advice would be greatly appreciated

[hybridauth_Facebook_592188533]

Hi there,
I was wondering if you could offer some advice with regards to my sytem.
I am running the following:Arcam A85 amp, Arcam P85 amp, B&W Nautilus 805 speakers, Arcam Diva CD192 Chord chameleon interconnects, VDH teatrack speaker cable.The A85 is running the top frequency and the power amp is connected to the bass frequency (bi-amped and bi-wired).
The system is lacking in bass weight after rearranging the room, and moving the speakers away from the walls. Obviously, moving the speakers back near the wall will simply mean I lose the gains from having them in the right placement (with regards to listening position). Would it be best to get more power or add a subwoofer? Or would a subwoofer give me more bass extension? I'm thinking a maximum budget of £1500 if the amps have to go, possibly a bit more if the speakers have to go. I am happy to utilise second-user as the system has been built from second-user components, so that budget should allow a little more flexibility than if I was buying retail! Many thanks for any help,

 

[richardw42]

I'd give yourself a few weeks, maybe a month to maybe adapt to the new sound.

You may have got used to booming bass brought about by the room and speaker placement, and will start to appreciate a more accurate sound.

 

[dim_span]

There is a formula that I use when setting up speakers....

measure the room width (the wall against where the speakers will be placed)

the speakers must be placed 0.246 x room width to the centre of the speakers (from the edge walls)

the speakers must be placed 0.447 x room width (from the back of the walls to the front of the speakers)

don't toe them in yet, and sit in your listening spot and play a good recorded cd .... let someone slowly toe them in until you get the 'sweet spot'

try that .... you may be amazed

 

[BigH]

There is a formula that I use when setting up speakers....

measure the room width (the wall against where the speakers will be placed)

the speakers must be placed 0.246 x room width to the centre of the speakers (from the edge walls)

the speakers must be placed 0.447 x room width (from the back of the walls to the front of the speakers)

don't toe them in yet, and sit in your listening spot and play a good recorded cd .... let someone slowly toe them in until you get the 'sweet spot'

try that .... you may be amazed

Actually most people would not want their speakers almost in the centre of the living room. Also it depends on the shape of your room if that will work? I find if speakers too far apart you get gaps and mono sounds its from 2 speakers not in centre.

Also putting speakers along the width does not work in many rooms because of lay out or doors or stairs etc., they have to be along the length. Some speakers need space around them and some need to be closer to a wall I dont think you can generalise about positioning. Some say equilateral triangle, ie speakers 8 feet apart and listening position 8 feet away, I generally prefer a more isosceles triangle say speakers 7 feet apart and listening position 9 feet away but it depends on room and speakers. Same goes for toeing-in or straight ahead.

 

[dim_span]

There is a formula that I use when setting up speakers....

measure the room width (the wall against where the speakers will be placed)

the speakers must be placed 0.246 x room width to the centre of the speakers (from the edge walls)

the speakers must be placed 0.447 x room width (from the back of the walls to the front of the speakers)

don't toe them in yet, and sit in your listening spot and play a good recorded cd .... let someone slowly toe them in until you get the 'sweet spot'

try that .... you may be amazed

Actually most people would not want their speakers almost in the centre of the living room. Also it depends on the shape of your room if that will work? I find if speakers too far apart you get gaps and mono sounds its from 2 speakers not in centre.

Also putting speakers along the width does not work in many rooms because of lay out or doors or stairs etc., they have to be along the length. Some speakers need space around them and some need to be closer to a wall I dont think you can generalise about positioning. Some say equilateral triangle, ie speakers 8 feet apart and listening position 8 feet away, I generally prefer a more isosceles triangle say speakers 7 feet apart and listening position 9 feet away but it depends on room and speakers. Same goes for toeing-in or straight ahead.

The formula is for 'optimum speaker placement' ....

obviously, if you are cramming your speakers into your cluttered living room, the formula is irrelevant ...

or if you cannot place the speakers far from the rear wall, it's irrelevant

but do yourself a favour over the weekend ... re-arrange your furniture, try the formula and come back here and tell us your opinion... you may have a different opinion on your speakers

 

[dim_span]

oh ... and the formula works for the width of the room aswell ...

 

[BigH]

oh ... and the formula works for the width of the room aswell ...

Does it? If I did that I would be sitting in between them. room 9m x 3.5, 0.447 x 9 = 4m

No the speakers would be in garage or at least in the wall behind me. And I would have to sit in the cupboard under the stairs, hmmm I dont think so.

The room is not cluttered its long and thin, with stairs about 60% along one wall, patio doors at one end, door and window at other end.

There are lots of formulas, best one is probably the one that draws a line diagonally between the 2 corners and places the speakers about 1/3 along, then you sit about 1/3 along from the opposite wall, but of course not possible in most living rooms.

Actually with my speakers positioning makes little difference.

 

[dim_span]

oh ... and the formula works for the width of the room aswell ...

Does it? If I did that I would be sitting in between them. room 9m x 3.5, 0.447 x 9 = 4m

No the speakers would be in garage or at least in the wall behind me. And I would have to sit in the cupboard under the stairs, hmmm I dont think so.

The room is not cluttered its long and thin, with stairs about 60% along one wall, patio doors at one end, door and window at other end.

Actually with my speakers positioning makes little difference.

A 9meter room by 3.5 meters is an odd sized listening room (it sounds like a converted garage or barn?)....

if the speakers are placed against the 3.5 meter wall, they would need to be 1.5 meters away from the wall .... thats where you start to hear the 'best result' ...

obviously, this applies to normal speakers (not bookshelf or those designed to go close to a wall) ....

thats the starting point .... then you try and position the speakers to suit the environment.

if you have your speakers against the wall, and on the 9.5 meter length, my suggestion is that you may be better off with a good set of headphones and a good headphone amp

BTW, it's not my own formula .... this was posted on a forum 10 years ago.... the guy who posted it was an engineer who designed speakers.

The OP of this thread has very good equipment ... perhaps the speakers need to be re-positioned..... thats why I responded

but I'm glad that you are happy with your setup

 

[BigH]

oh ... and the formula works for the width of the room aswell ...

Does it? If I did that I would be sitting in between them. room 9m x 3.5, 0.447 x 9 = 4m

No the speakers would be in garage or at least in the wall behind me. And I would have to sit in the cupboard under the stairs, hmmm I dont think so.

The room is not cluttered its long and thin, with stairs about 60% along one wall, patio doors at one end, door and window at other end.

Actually with my speakers positioning makes little difference.

A 9meter room by 3.5 meters is an odd sized listening room (it sounds like a converted garage or barn?)....

if the speakers are placed against the 3.5 meter wall, they would need to be 1.5 meters away from the wall .... thats where you start to hear the 'best result' ...

obviously, this applies to normal speakers (not bookshelf or those designed to go close to a wall) ....

thats the starting point .... then you try and position the speakers to suit the environment.

if you have your speakers against the wall, and on the 9.5 meter length, my suggestion is that you may be better off with a good set of headphones and a good headphone amp

BTW, it's not my own formula .... this was posted on a forum 10 years ago.... the guy who posted it was an engineer who designed speakers.

The OP of this thread has very good equipment ... perhaps the speakers need to be re-positioned..... thats why I responded

but I'm glad that you are happy with your setup

No its not converted anything, its fairly standard living room where you have living area and then dining area at one end. Yes I misunderstood your formula, as said placing speakers on shorter wall would not work. on longer wall the speakers would be about 1.5m into room which again is not practible. Your formula is at odds with most others Ive seen. http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_golden_cuboid.php

Most speakers I think you will find are "bookshelf" speakers?

 

[BigH]

Actually had a look at your formula and it is the same as the Cardas one but what you failed to mention is you sit the same distance from centre of speakers as the centre of speakers are apart. So basicily you sit about in centre of room with an equilateral triangle with your speakers.

 

[dim_span]

oh ... and the formula works for the width of the room aswell ...

Does it? If I did that I would be sitting in between them. room 9m x 3.5, 0.447 x 9 = 4m

No the speakers would be in garage or at least in the wall behind me. And I would have to sit in the cupboard under the stairs, hmmm I dont think so.

The room is not cluttered its long and thin, with stairs about 60% along one wall, patio doors at one end, door and window at other end.

Actually with my speakers positioning makes little difference.

A 9meter room by 3.5 meters is an odd sized listening room (it sounds like a converted garage or barn?)....

if the speakers are placed against the 3.5 meter wall, they would need to be 1.5 meters away from the wall .... thats where you start to hear the 'best result' ...

obviously, this applies to normal speakers (not bookshelf or those designed to go close to a wall) ....

thats the starting point .... then you try and position the speakers to suit the environment.

if you have your speakers against the wall, and on the 9.5 meter length, my suggestion is that you may be better off with a good set of headphones and a good headphone amp

BTW, it's not my own formula .... this was posted on a forum 10 years ago.... the guy who posted it was an engineer who designed speakers.

The OP of this thread has very good equipment ... perhaps the speakers need to be re-positioned..... thats why I responded

but I'm glad that you are happy with your setup

Most speakers I think you will find are "bookshelf" speakers?

I do find your suggestion about headphones very strange and I don't like headphones anyway. Im happy with my set up, I have tried in all sorts of odd positions does not make much difference.

dunno .... my speakers are floorstanders ....

like I said, if your speakers are against the 9.5m wall, and against the wall, my gut feel is that you are not hearing the full potential of your speakers and system, due to the odd shape of your listening room...

try headphones, you may be well pleased ...

many people read reviews on forums, then audition speakers in a listening room in a hifi shop, then they are dissapointed when they buy them and they sound carp in their homes ...

optimum speaker placement is one aspect, the next step is acoustics of the romm etc etc

depends how 'audiophile' you are.... i.e if you want to hear the piano pedal being depressed on the tack, or if you just enjoy good decent music with a few beers on a saturday night and are happy with spotify and a cheap pair of wharefdale speakers connected to your pc

 

[BigH]

oh ... and the formula works for the width of the room aswell ...

Does it? If I did that I would be sitting in between them. room 9m x 3.5, 0.447 x 9 = 4m

No the speakers would be in garage or at least in the wall behind me. And I would have to sit in the cupboard under the stairs, hmmm I dont think so.

The room is not cluttered its long and thin, with stairs about 60% along one wall, patio doors at one end, door and window at other end.

Actually with my speakers positioning makes little difference.

A 9meter room by 3.5 meters is an odd sized listening room (it sounds like a converted garage or barn?)....

if the speakers are placed against the 3.5 meter wall, they would need to be 1.5 meters away from the wall .... thats where you start to hear the 'best result' ...

obviously, this applies to normal speakers (not bookshelf or those designed to go close to a wall) ....

thats the starting point .... then you try and position the speakers to suit the environment.

if you have your speakers against the wall, and on the 9.5 meter length, my suggestion is that you may be better off with a good set of headphones and a good headphone amp

BTW, it's not my own formula .... this was posted on a forum 10 years ago.... the guy who posted it was an engineer who designed speakers.

The OP of this thread has very good equipment ... perhaps the speakers need to be re-positioned..... thats why I responded

but I'm glad that you are happy with your setup

Most speakers I think you will find are "bookshelf" speakers?

I do find your suggestion about headphones very strange and I don't like headphones anyway. Im happy with my set up, I have tried in all sorts of odd positions does not make much difference.

dunno .... my speakers are floorstanders ....

like I said, if your speakers are against the 9.5m wall, and against the wall, my gut feel is that you are not hearing the full potential of your speakers and system, due to the odd shape of your listening room...

try headphones, you may be well pleased ...

many people read reviews on forums, then audition speakers in a listening room in a hifi shop, then they are dissapointed when they buy them and they sound carp in their homes ...

optimum speaker placement is one aspect, the next step is acoustics of the romm etc etc

depends how 'audiophile' you are.... i.e if you want to hear the piano pedal being depressed on the tack, or if you just enjoy good decent music with a few beers on a saturday night and are happy with spotify and a cheap pair of wharefdale speakers connected to your pc

I have headphones I don't really like them, in fact I bought last year WHF best headphones, did not get on with them, thought my old audio technicas were better, so I sold them. Now I have a detached house dont need to use them anymore. I don't have a problem with my speakers and they are not cr8ppy wharfedales. Im not an audiophile, I just enjoy listening to music.