Surely the humble CD is the limiting factor?

[matengawhat]

I keep reading all the discussions about the more you spend the better the quality ect but at what time does the humble cd actually become the limiting factor in everyones setup - i think its fair to say that most people generally use a CDP as their main source (please don't loads of ppl reply saying they don't - just a generalisation). I think everyone would agree that the cd now is not the super format that it was originally hyped as in terms of quality and hasn't moved on in 20 years.

I am really enjoying digital music and can't wait for downloads to start appering from original master recordings that are better than cd in quality/sound terms - surely we are not to far away from this now because surely the quality of the souce materiel is the most important factor in the chain?

 

[Anonymous]

Hasn't moved on? ever heard of SACD?

I am still amazed the music industry hasnt pushed SACD, you can't copy them!

 

[matengawhat]

yes but SACD could hardly be described as a successful widely adopted format - now sacd transferred as a download would be a really interesting prospect!

if they had pushed SACD someone would find a way to copy them they are just not mainstream enought for anyone to bother

 

[Anonymous]

Mr_Poletski:Hasn't moved on? ever heard of SACD?

I am still amazed the music industry hasnt pushed SACD, you can't copy them!

To quote:

Audibility of a CD-Standard A/D/A Loop Inserted into High-Resolution Audio Playback

E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran

Conventional wisdom asserts that the wider bandwidth and dynamic range
of SACD and DVD-A make them of audibly higher quality than the CD
format. A carefully controlled double-blind test with many experienced
listeners showed no ability to hear any differences between formats.
High-resolution audio discs were still judged to be of superior quality
because sound engineers have more freedom to make them that way. There
is no evidence that perceived quality has anything to do with
additional resolution or bandwidth.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Stumpy21:Mr_Poletski:Hasn't moved on? ever heard of SACD?

I am still amazed the music industry hasnt pushed SACD, you can't copy them!

To quote:

Audibility of a CD-Standard A/D/A Loop Inserted into High-Resolution Audio Playback

E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran

Conventional wisdom asserts that the wider bandwidth and dynamic range
of SACD and DVD-A make them of audibly higher quality than the CD
format. A carefully controlled double-blind test with many experienced
listeners showed no ability to hear any differences between formats.
High-resolution audio discs were still judged to be of superior quality
because sound engineers have more freedom to make them that way. There
is no evidence that perceived quality has anything to do with
additional resolution or bandwidth.

Blind tests have also shown that ALL amps above 200 quid sound the same!

Blind tests in hifi to me are about as much use as a hole in a lifeboat

 

[jaxwired]

aliEnRIK:

Blind tests have also shown that ALL amps above 200 quid sound the same!

Blind tests in hifi to me are about as much use as a hole in a lifeboat

Yes, I've found the best way is to test is with large price tags affixed to each component so those foolish listeners can darn well pick the right equipment!

If blind tests can't be trusted, then surely visible tests are even less accurate. Hey, I think I'm on to something...

 

[pete321]

Mr_Poletski:Hasn't moved on? ever heard of SACD?

I am still amazed the music industry hasnt pushed SACD, you can't copy them!

I loved SACD when I had some, but as you say there just weren't enough mainstream releases. Unfortuantely I think timing was all wrong for SACD. When it first came out the majority of people were compressing CD's 128kbps (not me I hasten to add). Not such an issue now with bigger hard drives not costing the earth, more people are using lossless. If you could rip SACD in it's highest quality to a lossless file, I'm sure they'd catch on with the masses.

P.S. I've said on a few threads lately, don't discount what can be done with CD until you listen to an XRCD developed by JVC.

 

[method man]

I may be something but surely a Blind Test. Is the only true test.

 

[John Duncan]

In my system, lossless files sound better than CDs, but that's just my system - in others I've heard CD sound absolutely bloody fantastic - better than 99.9% of people could possibly ever want in their lives. So is CD (or, more generally, 16 bit, 44.1k music on any format) a limiting factor to the vast majority of us? No.

 

[pete321]

pete321:If you could rip SACD in it's highest quality to a lossless file, I'm sure they'd catch on with the masses.

On the other hand how many of the masses consider this to be ultimate hifi!........

 

[Anonymous]

at the end off the day if the recording is bad
then the cd will sound bad as with any other format as well.
its all down to the recording being good or bad.

 

[Anonymous]

I think that for most people their amp(s) are the limiting factor. Not until you hear a very high power and controlled amp do you realise just what you're missing. As JD says, CD in an otherwise high end system can sound breathtaking.

 

[aliEnRIK]

method man:I may be something but surely a Blind Test. Is the only true test.

Id say its more down to HOW its tested and WHO its tested with

To be scientifically viable you should be able to repeat the experiment over and over and have the same results (More or less) using random people from anywhere in the world to prove its worth

If this cannot be achieved then its NOT scientifically viable (Its how they write down the effects of drugs when you buy them these days. eg 1 in 1000 will get hot flushes or whatever)

Because of the way the tests are done we struggle to get true answers because ~

1 ~ Theyre sometimes just very badly done (ie ~ not TRUE blind tests)

2 ~ Everyones hearing is different (So what one person can perceive as a difference 90% of the time then someone else might only perceive it 10% of the time if at all. Same with eyesight obviously

3 ~ A lot of blind tests are done by 'none believers' and so use very poor equipment anyways in the belief that if theres a change then youll tell no matter WHAT its played through (Main reason all amps sound the same I believe)

If I was to conduct a blind test id choose the top 1% of 5000 people say (The ones who can 'constantly' tell differences in whatevers being tested) and use state of the art hifi equipment (So any changes at all should be so very easy to percieve instead of being played on budget stuff with cheap cr*p cables etc) . I would also carefully choose the music not just choose it randomly (ie ~ something with a clear bass beat of which I can personally tell differences quite easily)

Of course by me setting the blind test up in this way (if indeed I could) its no longer scientifically viable ~ go figure...................

 

[chebby]

Picked up three LPs from the PDSA shop this afternoon for £3 each. Very clean (although I will get them Keith Monks'd tomorrow).

Just playing them through now and - as much as I like my CD player (it is the nearest to vinyl I have heard from CDs yet) - there is stuff going on that digital just cannot do.

I have a feeling that the Technics SL-1210 mk 2 with Origin Live armboard (£40) and Rega RB250, a decent mat, and an Ortofon 2M Black is going to slay my CD player and maybe even the Naim CD5X I heard recently.

I have a couple of 24bit 96khz downloads (classical) from Linn records. Good but nothing to tempt me to spend more. The Sensational Alex Harvey Band live album I downloaded from them in 16bit 44.1 khz was very good too but not because of the number of bits but because the source master recording was better quality than the CD version.

I will stick with 256kbps AAC+ for iTunes downloads and continue to enjoy CDs and, when I want a real treat, play vinyl.

 

[crusaderlord]

having tried cd's in a variety of systems from cheap to expensive i dont see them as a limiting factor at all. i think they are perfectly good enough to meet the requirements of a great system

more of the issue for me will be in the recording itself regardless of whether this is listened to on cd or other more portable files