Suggested Hi-Fi system for a near-midlife crisis!

[megatombomb]

Should also consider different sources too as well and have found Leema Acoustics Antila IIS Eco ex demo at £2200 from £3200.

Also like the look of Unison Research Unico CDE Twin player. Maybe suit a valve amp like the Pathos better?!

So many choices and yet so difficult to hear them all!

 

[hoopsontoast]

If you are looking at ~£2.5k, then have a look at the ATC SCM20SL. I really liked the SCM19 and prefered it to the SCM40, on everything including bass extension. The SCM20SL looks to have a better tweeter over the one in the entry range.

Looking online cant find this speaker for less than £3800!

So the SCM19s bass driver manages to deliver more than the smaller assembly woofer unit in the twice size box!?

Add them to the list then at £1800 this is more to my sensibilities!

Google, 4th link down http://www.hifix.co.uk/bookshelf-speakers/atc/scm20-sl.html

Yes, I found the SCM19 to actually do better in the bass department than the SCM40, this may be down to the SL mid bass driver in the 19 over the non SL bass driver in the 40. I dont know, I just thought it was a lot better overall. The biggest downfall of the 'entry' range is the tweeter, which is why overall I prefer the older SCM10 to the SCM7/SCM11 as it has, in my eyes a smoother treble.

The SCM20SL has a nicer Seas Tweeter, as I say, I have not heard it but for similar money to the SCM40 It would be on my audition list.

 

[megatombomb]

Did you own a pair of SCM40s as well as the 19's then?

I am hoping then transparancy of the ATCSCM40 would work well with a Pathos Logos one mk3 as it is supposed to have a slightly warm balance but still plenty of bite without harshness. Mate that to a warm rich sounding CD player and i guess it'll come together in way i like.

Read some user reviews about the Shanling CDT2000 and theres alot of negativity but i shall still consider it against its rivals. Perhaps look at the Roksan M2cdp and also the Unison Research Unico CDE Twin.
http://www.whathifi.com/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE-Twin-CD-Player/product_4687Unison Research Unico CDE Twin http://www.whathifi.com/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE-Twin-CD-Player/product_4687Unison Research Unico CDE Twin
I read latest hifi news mag and am taken by the Marantz SA-11s3 disc player to provide the warmth and SACD playback which would be great as ive got 13 of them now lol! Again another budget buster!

I guess i could go amp and CDP route and live with the MA RX6's while i save for better speakers?

 

[CnoEvil]

I am hoping then transparancy of the ATCSCM40 would work well with a Pathos Logos one mk3 as it is supposed to have a slightly warm balance but still plenty of bite without harshness. Mate that to a warm rich sounding CD player and i guess it'll come together in way i like.

Read some user reviews about the Shanling CDT2000 and theres alot of negativity but i shall still consider it against its rivals. Perhaps look at the Roksan M2cdp and also the Unison Research Unico CDE Twin.
http://www.whathifi.com/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE-Twin-CD-Player/product_4687Unison Research Unico CDE Twin http://www.whathifi.com/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE-Twin-CD-Player/product_4687Unison Research Unico CDE Twin

FWIW It's the way I would head............and did, with a Class A amp and a Reference type speaker.

Pathos also do a lovely CDP.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Did you own a pair of SCM40s as well as the 19's then?

I am hoping then transparancy of the ATCSCM40 would work well with a Pathos Logos one mk3 as it is supposed to have a slightly warm balance but still plenty of bite without harshness. Mate that to a warm rich sounding CD player and i guess it'll come together in way i like.

Read some user reviews about the Shanling CDT2000 and theres alot of negativity but i shall still consider it against its rivals. Perhaps look at the Roksan M2cdp and also the Unison Research Unico CDE Twin.
http://www.whathifi.com/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE-Twin-CD-Player/product_4687Unison Research Unico CDE Twin http://www.whathifi.com/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE-Twin-CD-Player/product_4687Unison Research Unico CDE Twin
I read latest hifi news mag and am taken by the Marantz SA-11s3 disc player to provide the warmth and SACD playback which would be great as ive got 13 of them now lol! Again another budget buster!

I guess i could go amp and CDP route and live with the MA RX6's while i save for better speakers?

No I dont, I have owned the SCM7 and SCM10 though. I listened to the Entry range a lot when I used to work in a Hifi shop a few years back.

As I have mentioned (only a few times before :rofl: ) I found the SCM7 and SCM19 the best in the range. After that, the SCM50ASL's are next, which are great to be honest, heard them a few times now at the Scalford Hall show, brilliant!

I have a feeling that the ATC speakers would work well with valve amps, but never really experimented much when I had the SCM7's as much as I have now.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Megatom,

What are you trying to achieve? (apart from treating a near mid life crisis) I mean, sound-wise, functionality, control interface etc. You have a very good budget, lots of money, so you plrobably want to spend it wisely. So, how do you value things like e.g. objective parameters (low distortion, high SPL, frequency range etc) vs subjecive ones (finish qualilty, looks, brand etc) vs domestic acceptability ease of control by others e.g. girlfriend or visiting friends.

I bought my first proper hifi when I turned 30 and I spent a huge (at the time) amount of money on it. 10 years later I understood that what I bought then was very low value for the money. My hifi values have changed completely since then so 10 years ago and now I would be recommending completely different kit.

so, what are you looking for, what do you value in hifi?

 

[megatombomb]

Megatom,

What are you trying to achieve? (apart from treating a near mid life crisis) I mean, sound-wise, functionality, control interface etc. You have a very good budget, lots of money, so you plrobably want to spend it wisely. So, how do you value things like e.g. objective parameters (low distortion, high SPL, frequency range etc) vs subjecive ones (finish qualilty, looks, brand etc) vs domestic acceptability ease of control by others e.g. girlfriend or visiting friends.

I bought my first proper hifi when I turned 30 and I spent a huge (at the time) amount of money on it. 10 years later I understood that what I bought then was very low value for the money. My hifi values have changed completely since then so 10 years ago and now I would be recommending completely different kit.

so, what are you looking for, what do you value in hifi?

I am not really looking at it objectively. Certainly i wont buy a pair of speakers that my chosen amp cannot drive. First and formost i am only going to buy components i like the sound of. A good looking component is a bonus. Build quality is likely to either be high or at least have a respectable handmade quality to it at the proces/components ive looked at so far.

The sound as ive said is important. THe 6x6 room i use at the mo could be a smaller room when i move on from my current house (too big) so choosing speakers that work well in small rooms as well as larger is useful. I must admit i like a warmer richer sound with good low bass, no boom whatsover (i cant stand this!) but at the same time i will want to 'listen' to music so good detail and rhythm/timing is important. I like to relax to music so it doesnt have to be the last word in attack sound like Cyrus/Naim.

This has led me to conclude ATCscm40's with warmer than average amp/cdp would suit the above needs!

 

[L00k_C]

Last weekend i turned 30.

Excuses, excuses, excuses......

 

[megatombomb]

Well i have taken my first step...

Contacting a Linn service centre to get the old mans Linn Sondek LP12 turntable back up and running :rockout:

Just need some vinyl of my own now maybe this is where i should splash me cash 8)

 

[Macspur]

Well i have taken my first step...

Contacting a Linn service centre to get the old mans Linn Sondek LP12 turntable back up and running :rockout:

Just need some vinyl of my own now maybe this is where i should splash me cash 8)

Good start.

If you're still considering Sugden amplification, Audio Emotion have a A21 with phono going for less than £1300.

Mac

 

[AlmaataKZ]

What do you think about these?

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/printpdf/multimedia/products/artist-6/description

i think they are abt 1,000. They have excellent sound and plenty of sound tuning options. You can also adda matching sub and have even more flexibility of setup plus remote.

also consider dynaudoio xeo 3 or 5.

 

[jjbomber]

I like to relax to music so it doesnt have to be the last word in attack sound like Cyrus/Naim.

Now that is the first sign of a mid-life crisis.

 

[alchemist 1]

If you are looking at ~£2.5k, then have a look at the ATC SCM20SL. I really liked the SCM19 and prefered it to the SCM40, on everything including bass extension. The SCM20SL looks to have a better tweeter over the one in the entry range.

Looking online cant find this speaker for less than £3800!

So the SCM19s bass driver manages to deliver more than the smaller assembly woofer unit in the twice size box!?

Add them to the list then at £1800 this is more to my sensibilities!

Google, 4th link down http://www.hifix.co.uk/bookshelf-speakers/atc/scm20-sl.html

Yes, I found the SCM19 to actually do better in the bass department than the SCM40, this may be down to the SL mid bass driver in the 19 over the non SL bass driver in the 40. I dont know, I just thought it was a lot better overall. The biggest downfall of the 'entry' range is the tweeter, which is why overall I prefer the older SCM10 to the SCM7/SCM11 as it has, in my eyes a smoother treble.

The SCM20SL has a nicer Seas Tweeter, as I say, I have not heard it but for similar money to the SCM40 It would be on my audition list.

Some shelf at 22kg each.........

 

[megatombomb]

Hmm... found a Sugden Masterclass IA-4 (33wpc at 8ohm) at discounted £2900 with 30day moneyback guarantee. Its come down to this or the Pathos Logos one mk3 which has more power but is not fully class A.

Obviously needs careful speaker matching due to low power output but having looked at the Kef R900 which has 90db sensitivity and Kef recommend 25-250w power i think i could get away with it!? Or is the R900 not good enough for the likes of this amp? Like ive said i want low bass but i do wonder if the R900 would be to much for a 6x6m room and i intend to place fairly close to walls ie 1.5 ft away from back. Perhaps i should look at the Pro-ac D18/28 or Spendor A9 (again found heavily discounted!)?

Pretty much settled on the new Marantz SA-11s3 SACD player too

 

[Macspur]

You've done well to find a Masterclass at that price!

Have you heard the Pathos yet? I will be very interested in your final choice and reasons why.

Mac

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You're way better off picking speakers first and then asking whether the amp is good enough to drive them. It's the load the speakers put on the amp that's the determining factor, not the other way round. Don't forget, speakers are the bits that make the noise, amps are comparitively minor in the chain.

 

[megatombomb]

PMC OB1i found for £3500 ex demo

On paper fits the bill perfectly but bearing in mind i want a warmer richer sound but still offering detail and excitement am i asking it too much?

I read its quite a transparant speaker much like an ATC so would it need pure class A or hybrid valve AB amplification to perform how i want?

Any suggestions? Ta!

 

[altruistic.lemon]

If you prefer a warmer sound then look for a warmer speaker. An amp isn't going to tame a bright sounding speaker or turn into a warm one, doesn't work like that, they have far less impact on the sound.

Really, you should go down and listen to some amp/speaker combos to see what I mean.

 

[gregvet]

Pmc like using/demoing their speakers with Bryston Amps (they are great ) so I don't think you need class A.

Personally I would say the OB1i's are warm, as in lots of bass, but with detailed mids and highs, not bright at all.

For me there was too much bass (or maybe they weren't well controlled enough, I only heard them on audiolab amps), and I would take the twenty.24 In preference any day of the week.

Best to demo, as YMMV.

 

[lindsayt]

You're thinking of buying a Sugden Masterclass at £2900 and PMC OB1i's at £3500? Couple of things to bear in mind. Whilst these prices are less than the brand new retail prices, that's still a total of £6400 on two items that will depreciate as soon as you buy them and continue to depreciate over the next few years. I don't know your financial situation, but for me that's a lot of cash to lay out on a combination that you've not heard and you're not sure how much you'll enjoy in your room. Inparticular, how much you'll enjoy them compared to other less expensive amp and speaker combinations you could buy for less money with less depreciation.

The Sugden and PMC combination may well be just the ticket for you. Then again they may not.

 

[CnoEvil]

In order to decide whether you take an "amp first" or "speaker first" approach, will depend whether you are a Class A / Valve addict, or not.

Myself (and I suspect a few others on here) place more importance on the Class of amp, because (imo) the sound of Class A / Valves can't be replicated with any brand of speakers.

If you don't hear the benefit in taking the above approach, then I would choose the speakers first and match with an appropriate amp.

I suspect if you got the Sugden IA-4, you would have difficulty settling with an AB or D amp.......but the only way to find out for sure is to listen to the various options, as what we all think or prefer, is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

No. Amp's really don't make much difference, but speakers make or break a system. They're the bits that colour the sound. Most amps have a flat frequency response and thd's that are pretty much the same. Not saying they're all the same, but maybe they contribute < 5% to differences you hear. That's why no-one was game to take the Harbeth test when it came to it.

 

[megatombomb]

I suppose i can base my sound preference from what ive got in my rooms at home.

My own system for music is Pioneer SCLX85 av amp, Marantz UD7007 bd/cd, MA RX6 speakers.

Old mans system is a cheap 5 yer old Nad 'Bee' CD player, an old Tandberg 3002 pre amp into two valve power amps (which a friend of his made for him using his bare hands) and some old wharfedale standmounts of which i dont know the model.

I do prefer to listen to the old mans old setup just because it creates a certain golden glow around everything played through it i find myself just listening and enjoying music rather than one minute enjoying next minute analysing the sound (from my own setup). I'm not saying my own system is bad (in fact for movies it is bloody good which is the main reason i bought it) but it only seems to sound really good with perfectly recorded/produced music.

IME They are two setups from both extremes ie mine being forward, bright and somewhat analytical whereas the old setup is richer, relaxed but still on time, and just plain easy going with anything thats played through it allowing me to just kick back.

Most of my own music is poorly recorded 60's and 70's rock/prog/fusion/heavy/punk so through my own system it can be very fatiguing to listen to especially at higher volumes, which ironically is the best volume for most 70's rock and roll!

I have probably answered alot of my own questions about what sort of equipment i should be demoing and that is of the variety biased towards valves/class a in the amp/cdp and speakers that get the most out of these sort of components. I am hoping that regardless of whether it costs £3K or £9k i wont have to compromise on also wanting to still have some modern qualities in the hifi system i choose with regards to still having good detail and attack.

Lastly thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far especially as its the first ive ever posted... and at this rate it could be the last!

 

[CnoEvil]

No. Amp's really don't make much difference, but speakers make or break a system. They're the bits that colour the sound. Most amps have a flat frequency response and thd's that are pretty much the same. Not saying they're all the same, but maybe they contribute < 5% to differences you hear. That's why no-one was game to take the Harbeth test when it came to it.

Surely it's down to the OP to listen for himself......as after all, it is he who will be paying for it, and then listening to it on an on-going basis.

There are quite a few on here who completely disagree with you, and the OP may find he is one of them.

 

[Electro]

PMC OB1i found for £3500 ex demo

On paper fits the bill perfectly but bearing in mind i want a warmer richer sound but still offering detail and excitement am i asking it too much?

I read its quite a transparant speaker much like an ATC so would it need pure class A or hybrid valve AB amplification to perform how i want?

Any suggestions? Ta!

I don't remember if I have said this before but if you were to stick an Electrocompaniet ECI3 integrated in front of those Ex dem OB1i's you would have the sweetness of the Sugden amp with the grip of a Bryston amp plus a unique sense of musical honesty that only Electrocompaniet seems to be able to provide IMO , and a new ECI3 is cheaper than either at £1925 .

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/electrocompaniet-eci-3-618281/review

And as luck would have it there is one going for £1200

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electrocompaniet-ECI3-/140916681468?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item20cf49eafc&clk_rvr_id=451038168579&afsrc="1"

Forgive me if I seem to continually bang on about combining Electrocompaniet amps with PMC speakers but it really is one of those rare and almost magical combinations that you will not regret trying believe me I know