Subwoofer

[MUSICRAFT]

Surely that depends on the main speakers you are pairing it with…..🤔

What crossover point are you using please?

 

[Tinman1952]

What crossover point are you using please?

My point was saying an arbitrary ‘90Hz’ is ’a good crossover point’ is rather silly….as it depends on your sub, your main speakers and your room response!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

My point was saying an arbitrary ‘90Hz’ is ’a good crossover point’ is rather silly….as it depends on your sub, your main speakers and your room response!

Anyway, what crossover point are you using please?

 

[bartrik]

I do like the REL approach.
Let your main speakers do their thing, and the RELs will fill up the bottom octaves.
I do agree subs are really important, and I say this after ignoring this fact for more than a decade... My bad.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Let your main speakers do their thing, and fill up the bottom octaves.
I do agree subs are really important, and I say this after ignoring this fact for more than a decade... My bad.

I believe realism requires power and even if the mains go down to 20Hz a subwoofer should still be incorporated because in my experience a subwoofer can inject power into and energise a system like no other component can.
However and with all things being equal letting main speakers to their 'own thing' wastes the potential of the subwoofer/s. Sub bass is the foundation of sound and I feel a lot of two channel systems require effectively aligned, calibrated and dialled in subwoofers to reproduce at least the bottom two octaves of 20Hz - 40hz and 40Hz - 80Hz. This reduces the workload on the amplifier and distortion in the mains as the subwoofer/s will do a much better job in this range. Get is right and a subwoofer can make the most profound difference to the overall performance of a system.

No power, no depth. No depth, no body. No body, no soul to the sound.

A subwoofer is the most important component.

 

[Tinman1952]

I believe realism requires power and even if the mains go down to 20Hz a subwoofer should still be incorporated because in my experience a subwoofer can inject power into and energise a system like no other component can.
However and with all things being equal letting main speakers to their 'own thing' wastes the potential of the subwoofer/s. Sub bass is the foundation of sound and I feel a lot of two channel systems require effectively aligned, calibrated and dialled in subwoofers to reproduce at least the bottom two octaves of 20Hz - 40hz and 40Hz - 80Hz. This reduces the workload on the amplifier and distortion in the mains as the subwoofer/s will do a much better job in this range. Get is right and a subwoofer can make the most profound difference to the overall performance of a system.

No power, no depth. No depth, no body. No body, no soul to the sound.

A subwoofer is the most important component.

There is more to music than ‘sub bass’…plus I can’t think of any instrument that goes below 40Hz…
Your sub fetish is getting tiresome. We will agree to differ….

 

[MUSICRAFT]

There is more to music than ‘sub bass’…plus I can’t think of any instrument that goes below 40Hz…
Your sub fetish is getting tiresome. We will agree to differ….

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, what crossover point are you using please?

 

[Tinman1952]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, what crossover point are you using please?

60 Hz for my TWO subs…now go away.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

60 Hz for my TWO subs…now go away.

Thanks for your reply. If the subs are capable then please try unburdening your speakers completely of the lower two octaves and then some by turning the 6 upside down and passing this LF burden on to the subwoofers. Get it right and the your system will perform to a much higher level

 

[bartrik]

Thanks for your reply. If the subs are capable then please try unburdening your speakers completely of the lower two octaves and then some by turning the 6 upside down and passing this LF burden on to the subwoofers. Get it right and the your system will perform to a much higher level

I've heard systems done this way.
It wasn't always successful.
One was with a pair of very high level Focal floorstanders (60K per pair) and 2 stacks of 3 JL Audio F113s.
Crossover point was 80 Hz.
I could clearly hear the bass coming from the stack, it was loose from the Focals.
I didn't like the effect.
Maybe the system wasn't dialled in well?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Maybe the system wasn't dialled in well?

Possibly. You can have the best subwoofers in the business (JL Audio's, btw) however just like a Formula 1 car they need to be utilized carefully. The goal is to effectively align/calibrate/dial in a subwoofer so that the subwoofer/s integrates seamlessly with the mains and disappears into the soundstage with a deep, sharp, tight fisted, fast and powerful punchy sub bass.

We've used stacks of JL Audio's E-112's in combination with Fathom f112 v2's. Took a lot of time and effort to dial in but in the end results were simply sublime. Get it right and a subwoofer can make the most profound difference to the overall performance of the system.

 

[davidf]

I've heard systems done this way.
It wasn't always successful.
One was with a pair of very high level Focal floorstanders (60K per pair) and 2 stacks of 3 JL Audio F113s.
Crossover point was 80 Hz.
I could clearly hear the bass coming from the stack, it was loose from the Focals.
I didn't like the effect.
Maybe the system wasn't dialled in well?

Problem with many sub designs is that they concentrate so much on getting as low as possible, that they fail to provide the goods higher up the scale (some start tailing off by around 80Hz!), making it harder to blend with smaller speakers where higher crossover points are needed. THX chose 80Hz as the ideal crossover point decades ago for home theatre, but I don’t feel it’s the best for two-channel stereo, although most set ups will be a little different.

With bass limited satellite speakers (that could do 60Hz - Ken Kreisel Quattro 125), I found 70Hz was more pleasing in my room using a couple of Ken Kreisel DXD12012 subs, giving the front speakers better presence, alongside the sub bass down to below 10Hz.