Streamers - What is the point?

[Digi_Man]

I bought a Cyrus XPQX streamer which is connected to a NAS drive by an ethernet cable.

I was blown away by the quality of the sound.

One month later I sold my CD player - Arcam CD FMJ37 and am in the process of copying CDs to the NAS drive.

The sound from the copied cd files is much better than from the CD player and purchased Flac files are very impressive.

Internet radio is also great with thousands of stations to choose from.
This also gives me the ability to record music from internet radio to flac files (Using Total Recorder Professional) and I often set this up to record various programs whislt I am at work.

My Cyrus is hooked up to Spendor D7's and a Musical Fidelity M6i.

 

[Alec]

Where's manicm?

What is your streamer, the_lhc?

 

[The_Lhc]

i'm using netbook as mine pc streamer, and as far as space is considered, you cant get much smaller and you have 10" screen just in case...just look at the prices of dedicated streamers with such screen real estate...i still dont get it why netbooks met with such hatred...at least for audio purposes...and it can works on battery, which is a big thing for many audio freaks :clap: on paper, it looks like almost ideal solution for pc audio...

p.s. and it can run linux too...

You still have to build it and configure it all yourself.

cmon...i dont have to build anything, it comes with operating system, and all i should do is to choose usb dac in sound properties...and asio in foobar...5 minutes tops...if someone has a problem with such a simple operation chances are they belong in the group 'how to set up mine vcr for recording', and they will certainly have problems with anything, be it microwave or dedicated network player...

How massively patronising of you. Also too much of a generalisation, I spent so long trying to get my laptop to reliably play music without stuttering every ten seconds (including foobar with ASIO as it happens) that I gave up and I've been working in IT for 20 years, I know my way around a PC (although it's not my primary role) and any number of UNIX variants, if I can't get it working the average Joe or Joanne isn't going to be able to fix that sort of thing.

The other point is I spend all day staring at computers, when I go home and want to listen to some music to relax the last thing I want to do is stare at another computer in order to do it.

Fact is, a PC will not output a bit-perfect stream without buggering about with it, with a streamer you just switch it on and it's ready to go.

 

[The_Lhc]

What is your streamer, the_lhc?

Sonos, I thought everybody knew that? It's the only technical thing I ever talk about!

 

[cheeseboy]

How massively patronising of you. Also too much of a generalisation, I spent so long trying to get my laptop to reliably play music without stuttering every ten seconds (including foobar with ASIO as it happens) that I gave up and I've been working in IT for 20 years, I know my way around a PC (although it's not my primary role) and any number of UNIX variants, if I can't get it working the average Joe or Joanne isn't going to be able to fix that sort of thing.

The other point is I spend all day staring at computers, when I go home and want to listen to some music to relax the last thing I want to do is stare at another computer in order to do it.

Fact is, a PC will not output a bit-perfect stream without buggering about with it, with a streamer you just switch it on and it's ready to go.

i remember the thread, wasn't it that you had a faulty sony viao laptop?

Also, just because you had such serious issues doesn't mean that everybody else does, so please stop touting it as some kind of fact, it's not. The only fact is that *you* had issues. There's plenty of people who experience miminal set ups just as tacty said, (load up, select the output device and away you go) and if it were such a problem then people wouldn't sell things like vortexboxes....

Also, you say you don't like to stare at computers when you get home, but how do you control your sonos.... ;p (tongue in cheek btw)....

 

[Alec]

On the other hand, it is simply ridiculous to suggest that anyone who had trouble with a computer would also have trouble with a VCR.

 

[cheeseboy]

On the other hand, it is simply ridiculous to suggest that anyone who had trouble with a computer would also have trouble with a VCR.

unless you are a teacher Lost count the amount of times in my youth we had to sort out the vcr for the teachers

 

[the record spot]

Also, just because you had such serious issues doesn't mean that everybody else does, so please stop touting it as some kind of fact, it's not. The only fact is that *you* had issues. There's plenty of people who experience miminal set ups just as tacty said, (load up, select the output device and away you go) and if it were such a problem then people wouldn't sell things like vortexboxes....

Also, you say you don't like to stare at computers when you get home, but how do you control your sonos.... ;p (tongue in cheek btw)....

Wireless streaming issues are a common problem via a router. Whether this is the fault of the router, the network provider, the ISP, whatever, is neither here nor there, it's a problem and it puts people off waiting for the stream to buffer, or it's halted for some other reason. Spotify is fine for the most part for me, but it's nothing like perfect and there hasn't been a session yet where I've gone all night without an interruption of some sort. This can either be fairly quick (within ten seconds) or longer (several minutes).

So while streaming as a concept is a good one, there are competing variables that can make the end result hit and miss for a lot of users. And yes, that is a fact which seems to be an issue for some of the proponents of wireless streaming to accept.

 

[The_Lhc]

How massively patronising of you. Also too much of a generalisation, I spent so long trying to get my laptop to reliably play music without stuttering every ten seconds (including foobar with ASIO as it happens) that I gave up and I've been working in IT for 20 years, I know my way around a PC (although it's not my primary role) and any number of UNIX variants, if I can't get it working the average Joe or Joanne isn't going to be able to fix that sort of thing.

The other point is I spend all day staring at computers, when I go home and want to listen to some music to relax the last thing I want to do is stare at another computer in order to do it.

Fact is, a PC will not output a bit-perfect stream without buggering about with it, with a streamer you just switch it on and it's ready to go.

i remember the thread, wasn't it that you had a faulty sony viao laptop?

No it's a Dell and there's nothing (apparently) wrong with it, certainly no faults being reported.

Also, just because you had such serious issues doesn't mean that everybody else does, so please stop touting it as some kind of fact, it's not. The only fact is that *you* had issues. There's plenty of people who experience miminal set ups just as tacty said, (load up, select the output device and away you go) and if it were such a problem then people wouldn't sell things like vortexboxes....

I bet they don't sell very many of them, comparatively speaking. Point is if I had issues, other people will have issues (or are you trying to suggest that mine is the only PC ever to go wrong?), there are plenty of people who wouldn't be able to even begin doing what Tacty suggested but that doesn't make them to sort of drooling idiots he seems to think they are.

Also, you say you don't like to stare at computers when you get home, but how do you control your sonos.... ;p (tongue in cheek btw)....

Without using a PC (thought I made that clear enough...).

 

[The_Lhc]

On the other hand, it is simply ridiculous to suggest that anyone who had trouble with a computer would also have trouble with a VCR.

Zigackly!

 

[matt49]

Wireless streaming issues are a common problem via a router. Whether this is the fault of the router, the network provider, the ISP, whatever, is neither here nor there, it's a problem and it puts people off waiting for the stream to buffer, or it's halted for some other reason. Spotify is fine for the most part for me, but it's nothing like perfect and there hasn't been a session yet where I've gone all night without an interruption of some sort. This can either be fairly quick (within ten seconds) or longer (several minutes).

So while streaming as a concept is a good one, there are competing variables that can make the end result hit and miss for a lot of users. And yes, that is a fact which seems to be an issue for some of the proponents of wireless streaming to accept.

Although, as has been pointed out before, this is a problem with wi-fi not with streaming as such. You can stream music via ethernet ...

In any case, the OP's question was about dedicated streamers vs computers. Routers can be (and often are) used with both.

 

[The_Lhc]

Wireless streaming issues are a common problem via a router. Whether this is the fault of the router, the network provider, the ISP, whatever, is neither here nor there, it's a problem and it puts people off waiting for the stream to buffer, or it's halted for some other reason. Spotify is fine for the most part for me, but it's nothing like perfect and there hasn't been a session yet where I've gone all night without an interruption of some sort. This can either be fairly quick (within ten seconds) or longer (several minutes).

So while streaming as a concept is a good one, there are competing variables that can make the end result hit and miss for a lot of users. And yes, that is a fact which seems to be an issue for some of the proponents of wireless streaming to accept.

You don't have to do it wirelessly, my most used Sonos is wired directly to my network, my wireless network has no involvement in my music streaming.

 

[the record spot]

Matt49 & the_LHC: yes, I understand the concept thanks, and use hardwired streaming functions too - see my post above for what and how I stream - but I can use services off my laptop if I wish. And indeed, Spotify stutters even with the hardwired connection too, so it's not solely down to wi-fi.

 

[Tacty]

Without using a PC (thought I made that clear enough...).

yes, but you have to look at screen of some sort...be it ipad or phone, and you are either sick of watching at some screen and not sick of looking at pc...nobody's looking at pc...pc is just a box of some sort and there are small pc as well...

i'm not looking at mine netbook as well...i fired up foobar and foobar remote on ipad and as long i'm listening music i dont look at netbook...and 10" screen comes handy if i want to tagging some music or such things...

 

[Macspur]

Excuse me for changing tact slightly here, but I wonder if someone could tell me if there's such a thing as an Internet radio tuner... I'm not interested in playing HD music, I just want a good quality HiFi standard Internet tuner and apart from the pricey Magnum Dynalab, can't find anything else.

Mac

 

[iQ Speakers]

Excuse me for changing tact slightly here, but I wonder if someone could tell me if there's such a thing as an Internet radio tuner... I'm not interested in playing HD music, I just want a good quality HiFi standard Internet tuner and apart from the pricey Magnum Dynalab, can't find anything else.

Mac

How about a Sonos?!! Kill two birds with one box. Radio and somthing to try out all those Spotify tracks through those Harbeth's

Strange i did'nt think of the Sonos as a streamer.

Im fine by the way, Loving Kate Walsh, tryed the other albums but none as good as Light & Dark.

 

[The_Lhc]

Strange i did'nt think of the Sonos as a streamer.

You're not alone in that, it's always puzzled me though, I can't think of any other way of describing it.

 

[Tacty]

Excuse me for changing tact slightly here, but I wonder if someone could tell me if there's such a thing as an Internet radio tuner... I'm not interested in playing HD music, I just want a good quality HiFi standard Internet tuner and apart from the pricey Magnum Dynalab, can't find anything else.

Mac

rotel rt-12 and every network player out there...

 

[spiny norman]

Although arguably it's somewhat harder to find HiFi standard internet radio stations, with a very few honourable exceptions.

 

[Crocodile]

Excuse me for changing tact slightly here, but I wonder if someone could tell me if there's such a thing as an Internet radio tuner... I'm not interested in playing HD music, I just want a good quality HiFi standard Internet tuner and apart from the pricey Magnum Dynalab, can't find anything else.

Mac

The Marantz NA7004 may be worth a look as it would give you FM & DAB as well, so some fallback in case of Internet issues. Of course it's also a DAC & streamer but you could always ignore that for now.

Or in keeping with the "debate", you could run TuneIn on a PC/tablet/smartphone...

http://tunein.com/

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Hi Spiny,
Quote: Although arguably it's somewhat harder to find HiFi standard internet radio stations, with a very few honourable exceptions.
Agreed. Big variations amongst the classic rock genre. Some are dire, but find 181.fm the eagle via tunein excellent - despite lowly 128kbps. Some of their source is HD and very few ads. Bad Company, Led Zep, Fleetwood mac and Cream in last hour plus US favs Tom Petty and Bob Seager. Excellent SQ via rPac to headphones.

Regards to Dinsdale

Hi Macspur,

SBT is a very cost effective Internet radio solution IMHO if you can find one SH. Wired significantly better than wifi to my ears.

 

[spiny norman]

Bad Company, Led Zep, Fleetwood mac and Cream in last hour plus US favs Tom Petty and Bob Seager.

You say that like it's a good thing.

 

[Crocodile]

SBT is a very cost effective Internet radio solution IMHO if you can find one SH.

Not so much since they were discontinued. Fetching well over £200 on Ebay & it's anyone's guess how long Logitech will continue to support MySqueezebox.com. If/when that goes you will have to run a local server for Internet radio.

 

[manicm]

And Linn's streamers are decidedly different from all others in that it commands the media server to push the data towards it, whereas the others pull the data from the media servers.

This sentence alone shows how much you are letting the PR gibberish pull wool over your eyes. As anyone with any knowledge of networking protocols knows, that sentence is utter and total gibberish.

To simply equate streamers as PCs without external interfaces is patently rubbish - because this would be true of any electronic device.

No. Streamers have CPUs in them (usually as part of a "System on a Chip" or SoC design). This makes them computers, unlike many other electronic devices such as a traditional analogue amp. This is a fact, and not in any way detracting from what streamers are. The value of streamers is in that they are specialized SoCs. As a result they are lot more energy efficient (dissipating less heat!) than a full-fledged generic PC. Consequently, you can build them in them a smallish box with only passive cooling, which can be safely put in to a cabinet with the rest of the hifi kit.

I think streamers offer lots of value over playback through a PC, most in terms of convenience. I love sitting on my couch browsing with my laptop while my streamer (which I can control from said laptop, or from my phone) plays music on my hifi set.

However, if you are going to connect the streamer through an external DAC, there is no reason for it to cost thousands of GBP. The essential components cost a fraction of that. (A fully functional SoC streamer can be bought for 200 quid max.) Add a well engineered case and well-designed remote user interface, and I don't see ANY reason for a price tag over 1000 quid. (And I just love the people on here regurgitating the PR smoke that was blown up their ass, and violent defence of the ones that do.)

A modern amplifier will have a CPU too (this is a damn fact)! So it's a PC!

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Squeezebox software recently updated, so hopefully, being a decent Swiss company, they will continue to support their products. Hadn't realised that SH values on Ebay are more than I paid for it new 2 years ago. Can't say that about most Hifi products and speaks volumes.

Hi Spiny,

They are to me. 181.fm has a range of stations from country to classical so I'm sure you will find one to suit. There is a comedy offering, but not sure if it covers monty python. free samples @
http://www.181.fm