Starting from fresh

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I'm new to all this and this is my first post so please be gentle with me.

All my stuff is about 8 years old and while I still like the sound, there is nothing that I really want to keep.

Requirements are to find the best compromise for an audio system for both hi-fi (cds) and home cinema. I'll be more likely to watch music DVDs than action movies. TV is likely to be either 32 inch LCD or possibly 37 inch plasma - no larger. So audio quality will more important than video quality. I'd like to be able to play DVD Audio as well as SACDs (and of course "normal" CDs). My room size is about 4 metres by 3. It has to be aestheically pleasing to keep the beloved happy so most of the gear will be hidden away in some sort of cabinets. I'm not an audiophile as such but would like to be able to match or preferrably improve on the sound of my aged, entry level, Arcam/B&W set up, and I'd like to be able to do all this for a budget of no more than £4k excluding the TV and "furniture".

I realise I have to start somewhere so let's just say that I have thing for B&W speakers. They seem to suit my ears/room/taste in music. I currently have a pair of 602s on stands which the beloved hates. She is sonically content listening to Snow Patrol on her MP3 player at barely audible volume. This is a trait to be admired. If only I could be the same, it would save me a lot of money. Strangely enough, it is not the size of the speakers as such, it is more to do with the fact that, "they are black, the stands are ugly and they don't go with anything else in the room". When shown a picture of the 684/683s in Red Cherry, the reaction was "Now they look nice, why don't you get something like that?" Isn't it amazing how they can still surprise you after 32 years of marriage?

So, I'm thinking along the lines of the B&W 684 theatre package consisting of a pair of 684s for the front, a pair of 686s for the rear (althought stands will have to be given a lot of thought), an HTM62 centre and a sub of some sort (but will I need one?)

Question 1 - Do I need a sub?

This'll be about £1.5k leaving £2.5k max for the rest.

So, I guess the next decision will be the receiver and from what I've read the Onkyo seems to be the first route to explore. Keeping in mind the aesthetics, I can hide the brute away when it's not in use, but cables are always a problem so I think HDMI is going to be must in any receiver. I also want to be able to listen to DVD Audio and SACDs so I guess features are going to be as important as sonic ability.

So, it's over to you good people. Which receiver(s) should I consider auditioning? If the Onkyo is a good bet, which model?

Quetion 2 - which receiver?

When that's decided, I'd like to follow this up with which DVD player and which CD player (if both are needed)

Thanks in anticipation

 

[Anonymous]

check my system below mate 4x 685s plus sub and front onkyo amp its soooooooooo nice i have my front speaker on a small attacama looks the nuts

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="nokz"]check my system below mate 4x 685s plus sub and front onkyo amp its soooooooooo nice i have my front speaker on a small attacama looks the nuts[/quote]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'm sure your system is very good and suited to your own personal tastes, both aesthetically and sonically. However, if you re-read my post you will understand that the 685s on stands as well as the centre, would not be a viable solution for me. Whilst it is always nice to hear other peoples opinions about their own particular choices, I could really do some practical advice on my own particular situation. Specifically, I would wellcome any answers to the two questions I have posed.

 

[Anonymous]

off ya high horse mate my point being the onkyo 605 will run my 685s so will run the smaller B & w offerings or indeed anything else around that ilk

 

[Anonymous]

oh and i have the HTM62 as my front and its a whopper so your wife wont like it too much . sounds amazing though

 

[Anonymous]

B&W FPM's sound good and look great with various mounting options, but you would need a sub.

Don't you think the 684's would be too big for your room? How close to the walls will all the speakers be? Too close and in corners would not be good, very boomy.

 

[Anonymous]

i agree with hifi_nut,i think 684's would be too big for the room size.You might want to check measurements of room in relation to size of speakers and rest of kit.For the amp i'd suggest the onkyo 875 which would be very good for music aswell as home cinema

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="nokz"]off ya high horse mate my point being the onkyo 605 will run my 685s so will run the smaller B & w offerings or indeed anything else around that ilk[/quote] nokz i don't want to be rude, but what are you talking about the 684's are floorstanders ????

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies so far. Firstly, appologies for the mis-information. Room size is actually 17 feet x 12 feet (I still work in "old money") which is nearer 5 metres x 4 metres , not 4 x 3. So I think the 684 FLOOR STANDERS will be OK but I reckon that the 683s would probably be too big. However, I'm open to constructive suggestions, in line with my original post and preferably free of disparaging and unhelpful remarks.

So, could we say that the B&W 684 front/686 surround/HTM 62 cente with sub, partered with an Onkyo 875 would be a likely contender? As they say "all vote now".

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="wellilikeit"]
Thanks for all the replies so far. Firstly, appologies for the mis-information. Room size is actually 17 feet x 12 feet (I still work in "old money") which is nearer 5 metres x 4 metres , not 4 x 3. So I think the 684 FLOOR STANDERS will be OK but I reckon that the 683s would probably be too big. However, I'm open to constructive suggestions, in line with my original post and preferably free of disparaging and unhelpful remarks.

So, could we say that the B&W 684 front/686 surround/HTM 62 cente with sub, partered with an Onkyo 875 would be a likely contender? As they say "all vote now".
[/quote]

Room size would probably be okay now but avoid those corners. Also consider the new Marantz's and Denon 3808 as amps, but you seem to be on the right tracks.

R

 

[Anonymous]

sorry 685s oops

 

[Anonymous]

No worries mate. I've always found B&Ws numbering system a bit confusing myself. The general concensus seems to be to go for the Onkyo 875. I notice you have the 605. In your opinion, do you think the extra cost of the 875 would be worthwhile?

 

[Anonymous]

I intend getting the 605 myself but if i had your budget it would be the 875 no questions asked.

 

[nads]

the 684's and the 686' and center i think will be too much (usable but over kill). the 684'a as a pair of stereo speakers would be fine but as part of a surround... I am running a set up for the surround using speakers of a size to the 686 and it is a big sound, (ok the speakers are not as good but easier to drive. I also have a pair of 703's for the stereo duties (separate system) I would say that the 685 package will doe the job very well for the Home movie setup with all of the Onk. amps. But again it is what do you want. You mention the DVD-A and the SACD but you do not say if it is multi channel of stereo tracks? If stereo then IMHO you will be having problems trying to get the best of two systems from one. the Onks. are good surround amps and i hear good stereo amps BUT NOT at the same time ie it is not a switch but new settings and swapping lots of cables to get the best of each configuration.

I would look at a nice discrete set of AV speakers and amp (speakers like mirage nanosats vertical firing speakers that are small but hell they sound good. I was very tempted by them) and then some drop dead sexy HiFi speakers.... I am sure that this is not what you want to hear but ..... there are so many options out there.

 

[Anonymous]

and i said 685s from the start marvsins .......what are you on about

 

[Anonymous]

OK. Thanks a lot for everybody's input so far. Let's just re-iterate what I'm trying to do. Life is full of compromises which we have to accept. Few of us are fortunate enough to live alone, have the space for a dedicated AV room and have an unlimited budget, so we have to respect the wishes of those around us and attempt to make the best of what we can.

So, the fisrt compromise is that we don't have the space or budget to have seperate "stereo" and "surround sound" systems. Therefore, I must try and get the best I can from a single system, both in terms of playing CD's in stereo and DVDs in multi channel. I know it will not be as good as seperate, dedicated systems but I'm stuck with it. EOS. If I have to choose, I would say that I want the best "stereo" sound on a two channel mix and will accept lower quality audio on a five (six or seven) channel mix. It is completely different sound in any case. Some will say that the only way to listen to music is two channel stereo. Personally, I like both and think that certain types of music are better in one format than the other, but they are completely different.

The next compromise is that speakers on stands are to be avoided if at all possible. If, at the end of all this, the general concensus is that I cannot achieve what I want with this constraint, then it's "back to the drawing board". However, at the moment, I still think it is acheivable. So the options here are floor standers or flat panel. Personally, I don't think that (for example B&W FPMs) would be a good choice for the "stereo pair" when listening to a 2 channel CDs which is why I was considering the 684s. I think it is generally good practice to use speakers from the same manufacturer for the "surround" which is why I then went on to ask about using 686s and HTM62 in line with B&Ws recommendations. I'm glad in a way to hear that this could be an overkill as it would leave me with the problem of how to mount the 686s (and centre). So maybe, the option is to try a "hybrid" using the the M series or FPMs as satellites and centre. Over to you guys - would this be worth auditioning or is it a non starter?

Bearing in mind the compromises I have to make, I'm not after the ultimate in audio. If I can match or preferably better, the sound of my aged Arcan Alpha series amp/cd (which only cost about a third of what I am prepared to spend now) then I'll be content(ish).

In answer to the question, SACDs in two channel stereo, DVD audio in multi channel surround. However, if the compromises I have to make, mean that I would not hear the benefits of either or both of these formats then so be it - I'll not bother buying the discs.

Looking forward to any replies.

 

[nads]

Ok then what i would do is contact your local sevenoaks and get the 684 surrond set and an Onk.875 set up for demo tell them what you want from it, as you have said above, and see if it will do what you want,As what one person deams aceptable is not the same as ....

 

[Anonymous]

nads. Quite so. Many thanks for taking the time. I guess what I'm tryng to do is eliminate any definite non-starters so that I can short list all the potential combinations (worse than "any eight from ten") because the next thing I have to chuck into the pot is DVD and CD sources. I should also probably expand on the SACD/DVD Audio thing. What I really mean is that I'd like to be abe (if possible) to have a system which will take advantage of all high definition audio formats (True HD, DTS Master Audio and all the other various formats). Any suggestions on how I can get the number of possible combinations down to something manageable that I can then audition would be most wellcome. In many ways it is much harder "starting from scratch" (but then nobody said it was going to be easy). Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

its true mounting the b&w center was a pain in the ass (i got small attacama stands in the end and just use one in front of the amp. Have you considerd in wall speakers at all? i also could not afford stereo and surround so my onkyo and sony bdp 300 are great for movies and music

 

[Anonymous]

nadz. That's a VERY good point. I hadn't considered in wall speakers at all. Even better, I have an integral garage and the wall that the TV etc goes against is the garage wall. I had thought about hiding cables by going in and out of this wall but I had not thought about setting the speakers in. I could even leave the backs open to the garage. This deserves some serious thought. Anybody think I'm crazy?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="nokz"]and i said 685s from the start marvsins .......what are you on about[/quote] I don't know if thats just abit of hearty sarcasim but, Wellilikeit states in his OP "I currently have a pair of 602s on stands which the beloved hates.", thus ruling out standmounts. As for the dvd player check Marantz DV7001, it got product of the year '07 awards and is an excellant option if you music and movies from one player.Also just wondering have you considered a Blu-ray player or does it currently not interest you ??

 

[Anonymous]

Yup. Blue ray interests me, so does DVD HD although ...,but hey, what the heck, the way prices are going, if I decide on Bue Ray, I can alway add DVD HD at some time in the future. Lets just say that starting with a budget of around £4k. What we are looking at so far means we are talking in the order of £1.5k for speakers inc cables and any mounts etc. Around £1k for the reciever inc cables etc. This leaves around £1.5k for sources (CD and DVD - don't care about md, tape, vinyl, radio, mp3 and anything else). The number of boxes involved is largely unimportant and they don't need to match in terms of looks. They can even be a mixture of black and silver, as the intention is for them to be hidden away when not in use (and before someone picks up on this, yes I know I need to consider isolation and heat dissipation etc). So, unfortunately, this leaves plenty of scope which needs to be narrowed down into some sort of short list. Keep the thoughts coming folks - all much appreciated.

 

[JoelSim]

To be honest if you're worried about what your missus thinks and not having wires travelling here there and everywhere, why don't you look at a one box system like the Arcam Solo movie (£2k new) or Naim n-Vi (£2,495 for an ex-dem at Creative Audio), a couple it with a single pair of very good quality real wood floorstanding speakers?

These systems are 95% as good as a whole set of separates according to the reviews.

A question to ask is do you want full surround sound or is the high quality sound coming out of 2 brilliant speakers good enough?

I have an Arcam DVD set up with Arcam pre/power amps and a single set of Dali Ikon 6 speakers which sounds brilliant for DVDs.

Good speakers could be Wilson Benesch Square 2 (£2,199), or even something like mine, The Dali Ikon 6 (£900), which you can then upgrade if you feel you need it to the full 5.1 package (£2,238) - check out audiologica.co.uk as they have loads of hi-end AV speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JoelSim"]A question to ask is do you want full surround sound or is the high quality sound coming out of 2 brilliant speakers good enough? [/quote]

A good question and one that I'm not sure I can answer.

Thanks for your other suggestions. Also worth considering. I'm beginning to think that the only way I'm going to get anywhere is to go to my local dealer, tell him what I want to acheive and the budget, ask him to put togther various options that fit the bill, audition them, and then just walk away with whatever I feel is the best one. Then of course, burn any magazines and avoid this and any other source of hi-fi advice like the plague.

 

[Anonymous]

are you gonna install the kit yourself or get it pro installed? if the latter get a free quote and recky done on ya home . as in previous posts sevenoakes are great help with all this