Has anyone done any direct comparisions between the Squeezebox Touch (no external DAC) against any of the current crop of streamers (Marantz, Denon, Cambridge Audio, Pioneer etc)? I was wondering if it held it's own sound quality wise? There's a lot of great reviews on the Squeezebox and I have been tempted to buy one since it came out, but will save up for something like the Pioneer N-50 if that's a big step up in sound quality. Thanks!
Squeezebox Touch v Current Streamers
- Thread starter smbmetal
- Start date
Given how cheap the Touch is I'd recommend you just buy one & try it. Especially as the blemished box offer is back again, albeit at not as good a price as last time.
http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/special-offers/blemished-box/devices/7348
IMO the vast majority of these so-called HiFi streamers are very poorly implemented & you're likely to find the user experience of the Squeezebox much more satisying. The piddly little screen that Pioneer presumably picked out of the parts bin of one of their car head units is laughable.
The only downside of the SB is that you really need to run Logitech's server software on a PC/Mac/NAS but in return you get a much better interface & proper gapless playback. I note that in the shiny new WHFS&V review of the Pioneer that the subject of gapless playback is yet again ignored. :?
http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/special-offers/blemished-box/devices/7348
IMO the vast majority of these so-called HiFi streamers are very poorly implemented & you're likely to find the user experience of the Squeezebox much more satisying. The piddly little screen that Pioneer presumably picked out of the parts bin of one of their car head units is laughable.
The only downside of the SB is that you really need to run Logitech's server software on a PC/Mac/NAS but in return you get a much better interface & proper gapless playback. I note that in the shiny new WHFS&V review of the Pioneer that the subject of gapless playback is yet again ignored. :?
My advice is to buy a Squeezebox Touch as a first approach to streamer...as it is not expensive. If then you find something better, you can always sell back the SBT or use on a second system.
So far can't see any drawback to be honest...but I will soon starting to compare the SBT against SBT + DAC and proper streamer (Linn DS series)
So far can't see any drawback to be honest...but I will soon starting to compare the SBT against SBT + DAC and proper streamer (Linn DS series)
smbmetal said:
Hi, I have very good results from my SBT, much better than expected too although a few incremental tweaks can make alot better still. EG Use LAN over WLAN, change settings so that decoding FLAC not done on the touch but on the server (increases network traffic but reduce work on SBT), a Good power supply for SBT, Soundcheck Toolbox 3.0 worth looking at. I have a switch between router and SBT. Removing noise really improved my setup but can be hit and miss from other experiences. At least there are options to tweak with SBT unlike streamers. I have Rega Dac which is an improvement over stock dac in terms of better imaging, timing and like the warmer presentation. Detail of Stock Dac not far behind however which is impressive. I had good listening session with friend who brought along Arcam cd192 (upgraded 73) and a very brief listening there was not much in it. Arcam perhaps richer sounding / bit more subtley whereas the rega more dynamic, punchy. I wouldn't discount SBT as a good and cheap option.
I can also report really good experiences with the SBT, which I drive from a Synology NAS drive running the Logitech Media server. I updated the power supply and that made a significant improvement to the sound. Though I run the digital output to my CD player which has a external digital input, the SBT analog out is very good and to be honest I can't detect much difference.
I think the SBT is incredibly good value for money and a great first step to decent quality digital streaming.
I think the SBT is incredibly good value for money and a great first step to decent quality digital streaming.
acalex said:
The SBT IS a proper streamer, one of the few. The ones that do not do it properly are not (and when I say properly, I mean playing back an album as intended...gaps when there should be, and no gaps when there shouldn't)
I love my SBT, the interface and navigation is so simple and quick. I don't use an external DAC, I find the SQ of the SBT more than acceptable, but this business about upgrading the power supply intrigues me. Just how much difference does it make? On another forum a lot of the SBT owners had upgraded the PSU but to one that costs more than the actual SBT itself!
Thoughts on the PSU upgrade?
.
Thoughts on the PSU upgrade?
.
I also vote for a blind test. An SBT with a proper DAC is a relatively cheap way of getting a very good streaming solution.
What most people forget is that from a usablity perspective the SBT beats them all (perhaps maybe the Sonos). Most expensive streamer solutions are DLNA based, and those ones just don't come close to the usability of the SBT.
What most people forget is that from a usablity perspective the SBT beats them all (perhaps maybe the Sonos). Most expensive streamer solutions are DLNA based, and those ones just don't come close to the usability of the SBT.
smbmetal said:
It is my opinion, that at around that price, there isn't a lot in it. It is also my view that if you want a good step up, you are looking at a Linn Sneaky, Yamaha NPS 2000 or Cyrus Stream XP.
nads
Well-known member
- Nov 29, 2007
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spockfish said:
What do you mean by proper DAC?
At a guess it would also improve any other streamer so negating the higher cost of the "Proper" streamer.
A SBT and a DAC of greater than say £500 will be hard to beat. ( why 500 well I just picked a number as I have no idea or inclination to buy any DAC as I am very happy with the SBT. And just think of the music 500 could buy).
Hi,
Just thought I'd update my thread. I bought the SBT in the end from Amazon's lightning deal for £140. Sound quality wise there's not a lot to choose between my Arcam v's the SBT, so I'm very pleased.
Will be adding a QNAP NAS next rather than looking for an external DAC due to the SBT's being pretty good!
Thanks all for your comments!!!
Just thought I'd update my thread. I bought the SBT in the end from Amazon's lightning deal for £140. Sound quality wise there's not a lot to choose between my Arcam v's the SBT, so I'm very pleased.
Will be adding a QNAP NAS next rather than looking for an external DAC due to the SBT's being pretty good!
Thanks all for your comments!!!
nopiano
Well-known member
- Feb 15, 2009
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Thanks for the update. Despite my dislike of the transient nature of downloads and all the fussing with routers and the like, that recent deal was so close to changing my mind, just for the heck of it. It is still in my 'basket'! I expect they'll do the deal again before long.
Hope you enjoy it!
Hope you enjoy it!
daveg56 said:
I'm sure there are a few of us who would be interested in more info on the power supply upgrade: what did you buy, where from and what was the improvement you experienced?
Yeah, I'm enjoying the SBT. I didn't exepct it to be good as it is and it gives my Arcam a good run for it's money. The Arcam just pips it for bass definition in my ears! Long term I might look at auditioning an external DAC but for now I'm happy!
I've been busy ripping my CD collection to FLAC which I will transfer from my laptop to a NAS drive. I work with computers at work all day so don't want to have one on just for music. I've not actually 'downloaded' anything yet ha ha! Not a fan of downloads and will still need to buy CDs for now as I'm not a fan of 320bps MP3s.
I would recommend purchasing one, especially if you can get one at the price I did. The internet radio on it is pretty cool too!
I would like to know how it stacks up against other streamers, cause at £140 it's a steal!!
I've been busy ripping my CD collection to FLAC which I will transfer from my laptop to a NAS drive. I work with computers at work all day so don't want to have one on just for music. I've not actually 'downloaded' anything yet ha ha! Not a fan of downloads and will still need to buy CDs for now as I'm not a fan of 320bps MP3s.
I would recommend purchasing one, especially if you can get one at the price I did. The internet radio on it is pretty cool too!
I would like to know how it stacks up against other streamers, cause at £140 it's a steal!!
Incidentally, whilst the cat is away (so to speak) I have had a brief opportunity this evening to experiment just a little.
For those who haven't followed the threads or bothered to check the signature box (
) I am now running a Synology NAS into a Naim Uniti with a choice of straight to the Naim or possibly via Squeezbox Touch. The latter option is a concession to convenience and the above-mentioned 'cat' who has no patience for arcane devices that lack user-friendliness.
Just out of interest, I did a couple of comparisons between the two options. Not exhaustive by any means, but an indicative taste.
The Logitech software and SB combo has a great deal going for it in terms of user friendliness and offering gapless playback. I can also run Spotify very easily. Unfortunately, the Logitech 'player doesn't recognise the Naim Uniti as an output option, whereas Synology's Audio Station does...in addition to the SBT. Understandable, I suppose. On the other hand, it is smart enough to spot that there are duplicate tracks somewhere which it can ignore when playing an album.
Synology's Audio Station is not bad, but doesn't have gapless playback and does insist on recognising the duplicates I have not yet weeded out! I also need to go through every single album and change the artwork file to read 'cover.jpg' in order to display them! But at least it will recognise both the SBT and Uniti as options for output.
Comparing the sound quality: well, the SBT does a very good job. It is connected via RCA cables into the Uniti for DAC and amplification purposes. The performance is more than satisfactory, especially given the ease of use. It's just that when I switch to the Uniti there is a step up in terms of punch, focus, presence and atmosphere/mood. In addition to avoiding a tendency towards loose, slightly splashy top end sounds, the Uniti gives an added breadth and depth, together with an extra warmth - it's more natural sounding and displays greater control over those sibilant pitfalls that cause the SBT to stumble a little.
But if you factor in the cost of the Uniti at over £2k (until the Uniti 2 really takes hold) vs the SBT at under £200 plus a decent amp (and DAC?)...yes, I must be mad! :bounce:
I reckon I can live with both, depending on who is present and any further refinements and fine-tunings I can get done. But, believe me, the SBT hype is not necessarily that - it's a bloomin' steal at under £200 so well done Logitech. :cheers:
For those who haven't followed the threads or bothered to check the signature box (
) I am now running a Synology NAS into a Naim Uniti with a choice of straight to the Naim or possibly via Squeezbox Touch. The latter option is a concession to convenience and the above-mentioned 'cat' who has no patience for arcane devices that lack user-friendliness.Just out of interest, I did a couple of comparisons between the two options. Not exhaustive by any means, but an indicative taste.
The Logitech software and SB combo has a great deal going for it in terms of user friendliness and offering gapless playback. I can also run Spotify very easily. Unfortunately, the Logitech 'player doesn't recognise the Naim Uniti as an output option, whereas Synology's Audio Station does...in addition to the SBT. Understandable, I suppose. On the other hand, it is smart enough to spot that there are duplicate tracks somewhere which it can ignore when playing an album.
Synology's Audio Station is not bad, but doesn't have gapless playback and does insist on recognising the duplicates I have not yet weeded out! I also need to go through every single album and change the artwork file to read 'cover.jpg' in order to display them! But at least it will recognise both the SBT and Uniti as options for output.
Comparing the sound quality: well, the SBT does a very good job. It is connected via RCA cables into the Uniti for DAC and amplification purposes. The performance is more than satisfactory, especially given the ease of use. It's just that when I switch to the Uniti there is a step up in terms of punch, focus, presence and atmosphere/mood. In addition to avoiding a tendency towards loose, slightly splashy top end sounds, the Uniti gives an added breadth and depth, together with an extra warmth - it's more natural sounding and displays greater control over those sibilant pitfalls that cause the SBT to stumble a little.
But if you factor in the cost of the Uniti at over £2k (until the Uniti 2 really takes hold) vs the SBT at under £200 plus a decent amp (and DAC?)...yes, I must be mad! :bounce:
I reckon I can live with both, depending on who is present and any further refinements and fine-tunings I can get done. But, believe me, the SBT hype is not necessarily that - it's a bloomin' steal at under £200 so well done Logitech. :cheers:
ESP,
How many tracks are on your 212J ? I am wondering if the J models are up to the task. The 212 and 212+ are more powerful, but is yours good for 20,000 -> 30,000 tracks?
thanks, -N-
How many tracks are on your 212J ? I am wondering if the J models are up to the task. The 212 and 212+ are more powerful, but is yours good for 20,000 -> 30,000 tracks?
thanks, -N-
Neon K said:
Eeeeek! How many?!?! :O
OK, I have installed 2x 2Tb drives in RAID 1 configuration which means just under 2Tb effective storage. With just over 1000 albums in flac format a quick check shows just under 18000 tracks (probably including duplicates I need to sort out) taking up less than 500Gb. So, yes, I suppose my setup is probably good for 20-30k tracks in high quality format.
The DS212j can handle larger HDD than 2x 2Tb anyway - if your allet can stand it. You might want to look at better RAM/buffer specs and faster drives, of course.
ESP2009 said:Neon K said:
Eeeeek! How many?!?! :O
OK, I have installed 2x 2Tb drives in RAID 1 configuration which means just under 2Tb effective storage. With just over 1000 albums in flac format a quick check shows just under 18000 tracks (probably including duplicates I need to sort out) taking up less than 500Gb. So, yes, I suppose my setup is probably good for 20-30k tracks in high quality format.
The DS212j can handle larger HDD than 2x 2Tb anyway - if your allet can stand it. You might want to look at better RAM/buffer specs and faster drives, of course.
thanks! I'm at 20,000 currently and looking for an adequate NAS for the task without spending more for CPU I won't need. Also from Illustrate/DBPoweramp they now have a De-Dup program: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/perfecttunes.htm
It's in beta and not all the features shown are not there yet, or else not obvious to me where they are
-N-
ESP2009 said:Neon K said:
Eeeeek! How many?!?! :O
OK, I have installed 2x 2Tb drives in RAID 1 configuration which means just under 2Tb effective storage. With just over 1000 albums in flac format a quick check shows just under 18000 tracks (probably including duplicates I need to sort out) taking up less than 500Gb. So, yes, I suppose my setup is probably good for 20-30k tracks in high quality format.
The DS212j can handle larger HDD than 2x 2Tb anyway - if your allet can stand it. You might want to look at better RAM/buffer specs and faster drives, of course.
thanks! I'm at 20,000 currently and looking for an adequate NAS for the task without spending more for CPU I won't need. Also from Illustrate/DBPoweramp they now have a De-Dup program: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/perfecttunes.htm
It's in beta and not all the features shown are not there yet, or else not obvious to me where they are
-N-
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