Spikes and stands

[Michaelholder1]

I was just wondering how important stands are to sound quality? Is it mostly just to get the right height for the speakers and to provide isolation via the spikes? Also should my speaker stands have spikes on the top as well as the bottom? I get the feeling they should, theyre just cheap celestion ones i got off ebay for £5.
Also I was wanting to get spikes for my REL strata and my Dm603 s2s but i have no idea what thread size the holes are, is there a standard size for speakers, M6? I checked the manual it doesnt say a size. Also my 603s have one of the threads missing on the underside where the spike screws in, the metal bit has come out the wood, do you reckon its possible to replace this? I was thinking maybe i could make one on at the lathe at uni but its a lot of hassle. Another option would be to maybe put some putty inside the hole and thread a hole in after it dried?

 

[BigH]

Its not just about the height, if you put them on a chest then they would not sound sound so good, bass would not be so clear and generally you would lose clarity, also could be boomy depending what you rest them on.

I don't think spikes make any difference apart from stability and levelling at the floor. On the top plate I would use blue tack or Black tack, that will fix the speakers in place better and safer than spikes and absorb some of the vibrations from the speakers.

 

[Phileas]

1. They hold the speakers at the required height.

2. Err...that's it..

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO Spikes on the bottom of the stands do several things:

- Provide stability of stand (so it doesn't rock).

- Allow height adjustment and levelling.

- Couple the Speaker/Stand to the floor (not isolate), which allow unwanted resonances to sink into the floor (works if concrete floor).

- Spikes on the top can be a good job, but damage the bottom of the speaker....so generally use Blu-tac.

Stands and speakers should be seen as a matched pair....and can make or break sound quality.

 

[relocated]

Michael,

You can get spike sets that also include the furniture inserts, so you don't need to use the lathe if you don't want to. Spikes are usually M6 or M8.

 

[BigH]

1. They hold the speakers at the required height.

2. Err...that's it..

So would wall brackets?

Here is a demo of what speaker stands can do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY-cSuKzu_w

 

[CnoEvil]

In case it's of interest, here is some reading on Speaker Stands:

http://www.zenn.com.sg/Speakerstands.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point

 

[BigH]

In case it's of interest here is some reading on Speaker Stands:

http://www.zenn.com.sg/Speakerstands.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point

I find some of that zen link to be incorrect.

 

[Phileas]

1. They hold the speakers at the required height.

2. Err...that's it..

So would wall brackets?

Here is a demo of what speaker stands can do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY-cSuKzu_w

OK. They also allow you to easily move the speaker to different locations.

I can't see that video but it looks like an advert.

I used to think that holding a speaker rigidly in place improved the bass (by reducing recoil) - that's what seemed to happen when I bought my first stands 25+yrs ago. Now I'm not so sure.

I find the whole notion of channelling vibrations ridiculous.

 

[CnoEvil]

I find the whole notion of channelling vibrations ridiculous.

If you accept that speakers produce resonances.....it has to go somewhere....which is into the stand.

If the stands are metal (tubing), then this resonance will pass through into whatever they are connected to, unless filled with an inert material like sand.

If the spikes are into a suspended wooden floor, then that is where you get problems.

 

[BigH]

I find the whole notion of channelling vibrations ridiculous.

If you accept that speakers produce resonances.....it has to go somewhere....which is into the stand.

If the stands are metal (tubing), then this resonance will pass through into whatever they are connected to, unless filled with an inert material like sand.

If the spikes are into a suspended wooden floor, then that is where you get problems.

But your zen link says the stand that vibrates more is better, if that is so then the speaker which is standing on the stand will vibrate even more and then if it passes into the wooden floor you will get even more problems. It also says the stands can be more important than the speakers, who are these people?

 

[Covenanter]

I'm known as a sceptic about the effect of "accessories" but let me tell you about my expereince with my Kef Q500s. When I first got them I didn't put the spikes on because I have a wooden floor which I didn't want to damage and the spike shoes I had ordered hadn't arrived. The speakers sounded great but when the shoes arrived and I fitted the spikes the sound improved with much greater clarity all round. I took the spikes off to check that I wasn't fooling myself and I wasn't.

I don't know precisely why this might happen but it does seem to me that something that is vibrating to produce sound will probably do this better (a) if it very securely seated and (b) if it is isolated from vibratory feedback from the environment.

So I would fit spikes if your speaker is designed to have them.

Chris

PS I know these percevied effects weren't blind tested but that's hard to arrange when you live alone!

 

[Phileas]

..speakers produce resonances....If the spikes are into a suspended wooden floor, then that is where you get problems.

I've never had problems with resonances. I suspect you haven't either.

 

[CnoEvil]

In case it's of interest here is some reading on Speaker Stands:

http://www.zenn.com.sg/Speakerstands.htm

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point

I find some of that zen link to be incorrect.

IMO. There are few absolutes in hifi, only opinions. One should never accept anything as gospel until one has experimented for oneself.....this is because there are so many variables, including subjective taste.

I only link to this kind of thing to be a little thought provoking.

 

[CnoEvil]

..speakers produce resonances....If the spikes are into a suspended wooden floor, then that is where you get problems.

I've never had problems with resonances. I suspect you haven't either.

You suspect wrongly.

 

[BigH]

Im glad I have not got a sub.

 

[CnoEvil]

It also says the stands can be more important than the speakers, who are these people?

Just another person with an opinion.

They are saying that "A good stand is thus able to efficiently remove vibrations from the speaker and sink this into the stand itself, and thus the stand has to be heavy".

 

[Macspur]

Recently bought a couple of sets of these... good alternative to blutac and as cheap as chips.

http://www.acoustiproducts.com/en/acoustifeet.asp

 

[Michaelholder1]

Well I only have a limited knowledge of speakers whereas most of you have quite extensive knowledge, and I feel people are putting in opinions and presenting them as fact! Now I think most people do seem to have a very limited knowledge of structural vibration. You have to understand the movement of sound is much like the conduction of heat through a medium. So when you put your speakers on spikes it does not stop resonance, it stops the floor absorbing it as much as, the floor before hand was acting as a damper for the system. Obviously there is reason behind the use of spikes otherwise why would they be using spikes, something which damages the floor rather than any adjustable feet, for that reason I am disagreeing with people who say it is purely for height. What I still want to know is do most stands have spikes on both ends? So should I buy a better pair of stands with spikes on the top? So if I go with M6 or M8 I should hopefully be ok? Also what do you mean some come with attachments for the furniture?

 

[pauln]

Recently bought a couple of sets of these... good alternative to blutac and as cheap as chips.

http://www.acoustiproducts.com/en/acoustifeet.asp

Those are great. I use them under my pvr to stop the vibration from the hdd going into the cabinet. The whole thing use to hum like crazy, now it makes no noise at all. Also good under a computer, dvd player etc. Anything that vibrates really.

 

[CnoEvil]

I wouldn't get too hung up on this.

As long as you have a basic understanding, which IMO is as follows:

- Spikes couple, not de-couple

- If you have a concrete floor, you should couple the speakers to it; if you have a suspended floor you should isolate the speakers from it.

- Steel tube has a resonant frequency in the audible frequency (it rings), so it's sensible to fill with sand etc

- Adding mass usually effects the sound, though not always for the better....try different amounts.

The stands themselves should provide:

- Stability (enough to counteract the forces generated by the speaker cones)

- Correct height / Level adjustment (Tweeters at ear height when seated, with speakers level)

- Resonance Control (minimize any ringing)

- Conduction / Isolation (depending on what you are looking for)

If you are putting the spikes through carpet and underlay, they need to be long enough.

My stands had spikes on the top, which I replaced with countersunk bolts and Blu-tak (due to speaker damage)...but experimentation is key. I think most stands have a flat plate, but it's worth checking.

 

[GSB]

I have spikes on my stands and find them invaluble as my floor is uneven.My stands are oak so havn't the problem of ringing...but what are the disadvantages of wooden stands?

Read an article today sugesting that a sub is better suited to a wooden suspended floor and hollow walls as they act as dampeners...can't win realy :roll:

 

[CnoEvil]

I have spikes on my stands and find them invaluble as my floor is uneven.My stands are oak so havn't the problem of ringing...but what are the disadvantages of wooden stands?

It's a matter of taste, but I suspect the correct metal stand is better....but not worth worrying about at this stage, if you are happy with the sound.

This is more CJ's department.

Read an article today sugesting that a sub is better suited to a wooden suspended floor and hollow walls as they act as dampeners...can't win realy :roll:

My sub has always sounded better when isolated from my suspended floor (Auralex Gramma over Granite).....bass sounds tighter, deeper and faster.

 

[Michaelholder1]

Okay, well I'll just stick with the stands I have at the moment, they're ok, sand filled with pikes on the bottom but flat plates on the top. Theyre a bit short and I've found most of the stands on the second hand market are really short. I have an exam on structural vibration next week which I know nothing for at the moment so after a good couple of the days in the Library hopefully I'll have a much better understanding of what the spikes, sand ect. should do to the sound of the speakers!

 

[Phileas]

I wouldn't get too hung up on this.

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