Speakers for Arcam A18

[matthewpiano]

I've had a week away from the forums just listening to my hi-fi and experimenting a bit and I've come to the conclusion that my Arcam amp deserves better speakers than I'm currently using. I'm back to using the B&W 686s at present as I was starting to find the KEF iQ10s a bit shallow sounding and, on occasion, slightly lacking in front-to-back soundstaging (though excellent left to right!). With a better CD player than before (Cambridge Audio Azur 650C, which is superb) the B&Ws sound quite a bit better than they did. I like the weight of their sound and the control of the soundstage is excellent. What I would like is a bit more detail/airiness and I know I'm not going to get this in a sub £300 speaker without losing the good bits. So, I'm aiming for some better speakers (not 'told you so' comments please!) and am considering the following: Focal 806V Monitor Audio RX2 KEF Q300 Dynaudio DM2/6 Dynaudio DM2/7 Dali Ikon 1 Mk2 ProAc Studio 110 (some good deals about on these) ProAc Tablette 8 What would work well with the Arcam to give the balanced sound I'm looking for and get the best out of the amp? I would consider 2nd hand if anyone has any suggestions and I would also consider floorstanders. This is going to be a Christmas project with the hope of being finally settled with a complete CD replay system in time for the New Year.

 

[the record spot]

Mission 752s will give you a huge soundstage and plenty of detail in the right setup, but you need to hear them with your current lineup to decide for sure. I think the Arcam would work well with them, the source being highly rated, but you'd need to hear to know for sure.

Pros - sublime detail, highly musical, good sensitivity (89db), big soundstage, easy to listen to for hours

Cons - needs some careful partnering; can sound lean in the wrong mix.

 

[matthewpiano]

I would add that the Focals are high on my list because I loved them paired with Arcam gear when I heard them recently and I think the 8Ohm impedance and 90dB sensitivity would be ideal for the A18. The RX2s are also strong possibilities for similar reasons and because PP has always promoted the Arcam/MA synergy.

However, I'm intrigued by some of the other options, particularly the Dynaudios which I don't have any experience of and the ProAcs.

 

[the record spot]

Ultimately, I think you do need to make a step up somewhere along the line Matthew - I thought I did badly with half a dozen amps but I think I'd be off the deep end by the sheer quantity you've managed. Hope this works out well - what's the budget for this time round?

 

[Anonymous]

Let me be careful to qualify my answer; I haven't heard the A18 so I can only make an informed suggestion. I've owned the Alpha 8/8P, heard the A38, etc, etc.

The Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature is a very fine speaker indeed. I thought it sounded a little too forward on my old Rotel RA03 but believe this to be more an issue of matching. Proac speakers are very open sounding, a quality that rewards in airiness, detail and clarity but in the wrong system can be too much. I suspect they might work rather well with Arcam. The A18 isn't a good enough amp to hear them at their best but at least you can upgrade without worrying about speakers. They do the whole mini-monitor disappearing act very well and will captivate you. In my experience they really want to be placed fairly near a rear wall but not close to a side wall to avoid early reflections.

I haven't heard the non Signature version but they might actually suit the A18 more, being less revealing of the kit.

If you buy the Studio 110 make sure you get a pair with mirrored tweeters! I've heard mention of somebody being sold a pair of identical units!

Have you considered grabbing a pair of Mordaunt Short MS20i Perl from ebay for pocket money? Chebby seems to be rather happy with his pair.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi matthewpiano

With the greatest of respect i feel to move forward you need to take a step back. I assume you've still got the Pioneer A-400 and if so i would suggest you consider going back to using it and building around it. I genuinely feel the A-400 is by far the best component you have/had.

If you can get the A-400 to work the amp will reward with staggering results.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

What speakers would you use, Rick?

 

[matthewpiano]

Rick,

Thanks for your input. Do you not rate the A18 then? I get the impression it is rather a good amp and that it is just waiting for some better speakers to unleash its full ability. Am I wrong?

And, as Igglebert asks, IF the A400 was a route to take, what speakers would you suggest? (I don't have an A400 at this point).

Also, can you suggest suitable speakers for the A18?

Thanks
Matt.

 

[plastic penguin]

matthewpiano:I've had a week away from the forums just listening to my hi-fi and experimenting a bit and I've come to the conclusion that my Arcam amp deserves better speakers than I'm currently using. I'm back to using the B&W 686s at present as I was starting to find the KEF iQ10s a bit shallow sounding and, on occasion, slightly lacking in front-to-back soundstaging (though excellent left to right!). With a better CD player than before (Cambridge Audio Azur 650C, which is superb) the B&Ws sound quite a bit better than they did. I like the weight of their sound and the control of the soundstage is excellent. What I would like is a bit more detail/airiness and I know I'm not going to get this in a sub £300 speaker without losing the good bits. So, I'm aiming for some better speakers (not 'told you so' comments please!) and am considering the following: Focal 806V Monitor Audio RX2 KEF Q300 Dynaudio DM2/6 Dynaudio DM2/7 Dali Ikon 1 Mk2 ProAc Studio 110 (some good deals about on these) ProAc Tablette 8 What would work well with the Arcam to give the balanced sound I'm looking for and get the best out of the amp? I would consider 2nd hand if anyone has any suggestions and I would also consider floorstanders. This is going to be a Christmas project with the hope of being finally settled with a complete CD replay system in time for the New Year.

(In my best Michael Caine voice)

Mr. Piano - I've told you before and won't tell you again. MA GS10 - they'll be a revelation: And not a lot people know that...

(Enough of Mr. Micklewhite).

Alternatively, PMC DB1is. You will never need to change either make for years (wincing)

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks to the usual suspects - PP, RS and Igglebert - for your very helpful answers so far. This is going to be a major decision for me!

 

[jaxwired]

Guess which ones I'd like to see you get? Rhymes with FineAudio and ThyneAudio and ShineAudio...hey those would be good names for a speaker company...

Get the Dyns and you'll finally be able to scratch that itch.

 

[plastic penguin]

matthewpiano:Thanks to the usual suspects - PP, RS and Igglebert - for your very helpful answers so far. This is going to be a major decision for me!

This is exactly why I've recommended those two brands. They are both serious bits of kit: The A18 deserves so much better - no direspect to the current speakers you have - than the 686s you have at the moment. They're a must listen at the very least.

 

[matthewpiano]

plastic penguin:
matthewpiano:Thanks to the usual suspects - PP, RS and Igglebert - for your very helpful answers so far. This is going to be a major decision for me!

This is exactly why I've recommended those two brands. They are both serious bits of kit: The A18 deserves so much better - no direspect to the current speakers you have - than the 686s you have at the moment. They're a must listen at the very least.

I am definitely going to look into them both more PP. I think you understand what I like about the Arcam (and why the A400 would probably never be right for me).

 

[matthewpiano]

jaxwired:
Guess which ones I'd like to see you get? Rhymes with FineAudio and ThyneAudio and ShineAudio...hey those would be good names for a speaker company...

Get the Dyns and you'll finally be able to scratch that itch.

I am going to audition them Jaxwired. I've read some interesting reviews and descriptions of them and they always seem to exude high quality when I've seem them.

 

[plastic penguin]

matthewpiano:plastic penguin:

matthewpiano:Thanks to the usual suspects - PP, RS and Igglebert - for your very helpful answers so far. This is going to be a major decision for me!

This is exactly why I've recommended those two brands. They are both serious bits of kit: The A18 deserves so much better - no direspect to the current speakers you have - than the 686s you have at the moment. They're a must listen at the very least.

I am definitely going to look into them both more PP. I think you understand what I like about the Arcam (and why the A400 would probably never be right for me).

That's just the experience of having Arcs for 14 years and MA's for nearly 4. I've heard so many different speakers, especially since joining this forum, and heard all sorts from award winners to 'also rans', and none have set the Arcs alight like MAs.

 

[the record spot]

Just looking at your list again MP - I'm not sure if you put it together on the back of some research into each and how they might fit with the current lineup, or if there was another driver at work; budget, brand, reputation...?

 

[matthewpiano]

A combination of things RS. Budget comes into it of course but MA and Dynaudio are there because I've read lots of people suggesting both as good partners for Arcam. Focal are there because I've heard the 806v with Arcam and loved them. The ProAcs and Dalis are there because, reading about their sonic attributes I feel they MIGHT just bring the extra dose of airiness and detail that I'm looking for and, in the case of the Dalis I have heard the original Ikon 1s and liked them.

 

[Anonymous]

Matthew, I've not heard the A18, but I am still amazed at how my Focal 706v's sound. Even with a cheap CA Dab radio as source I find myself just listening and smiling. They are just the best speakers I've heard. You'd be daft to not see if you can get some to demo at home!

Mart

 

[ID.]

After finally listening to the tablettes I am sure they'd give you the air you wanted. Gorgeous, but when listening they came undone on music requiring deeper bass. I'm not sure how that would feel after the 686s as they don't go that deep either. If space isn't a concern I'd definitely think the studio 110s would be a great way to go (not available here so not heard them)

A perennial favourite of the forum, the DB!is were better alrounders to my ears (once I'd convinced the store that this http://www.whathifi.com/review/onkyo-a-5vl/ and the matching cdp weren't an appropriate match at all, but that's a rant for another thread perhaps)

 

[plastic penguin]

Think you have more than enough to listen and choose. There is one caveat about the Dynos: although fantastic speakers, and I'm a big fan of them, they do need acres of space to be heard at their best, hence why I turned down the opportunity to purchase. If you're like me and need to place a speaker closeish to the wall Dynos aren't the ideal choice.

I'm not sure of retailers in your area, but if you get the chance, listen to Ruark Sabre IIIs. I've heard them a couple of times over the past few years - they are terrific little monitors, and sound great with Arcam. Because of their age, you might be able to obtain a good deal on a pair.

 

[crusaderlord]

I have owned Arcam products for 4 years now from the Diva and now the FMJ range.

My own personal choice if was matching speakers now would be :-

Proac - i would try the studio range over the signature. I have found the studio more balanced and the signature a bit over the bright side. A good value would be on the studio 110's better still the studio 1sc if you can find one.

Neat Motive - was my own eventual selection and a great match for Arcam. Still love them now 2 years on.

PMC - if you like a little more bass emphasis than upper midrange then the DB1i is a good choice but i think less balanced overall than the above.

Monitor Audio - always gets good reviews with Arcam but actually i would personally take a Proac or Neat over the MA.

Just my own opinions of course

 

[plastic penguin]

crusaderlord:I have owned Arcam products for 4 years now from the Diva and now the FMJ range. My own personal choice if was matching speakers now would be :- Proac - i would try the studio range over the signature. I have found the studio more balanced and the signature a bit over the bright side. A good value would be on the studio 110's better still the studio 1sc if you can find one. Neat Motive - was my own eventual selection and a great match for Arcam. Still love them now 2 years on. PMC - if you like a little more bass emphasis than upper midrange then the DB1i is a good choice but i think less balanced overall than the above. Monitor Audio - always gets good reviews with Arcam but actually i would personally take a Proac or Neat over the MA. Just my own opinions of course

From memory, Matthew is a big classical fan and therefore would need scale and dynamics to make the most of that style, hence why I've been pushing MAs and PMCs.

 

[crusaderlord]

i tried to amend my post earlier but the forum was playing up - i would add i have heard Arcams with the MA Gold 10 and they were excellent. I am not so convinced lower in the MA range but if you can get to the gold level then great.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP and Crusaderlord, the MA Gold range (GR or GS) are a nice match for Arcam and 'do everything' fairly well.

 

[matthewpiano]

What I don't want to do is throw the baby out with the bath water. I very much like a lot of what my system is doing and I'm finding it much easier to put a wide range of different discs on and simply sit back and enjoy them. I think the overall sonic signature of the B&Ws suits me very well so any change would have to retain the best aspects of this whilst making some improvements as well.

MAs are a possibility if I can stretch to some Gold series ones but I would have to be able to hear them first. I'm not prepared to risk taking a punt on them and ending up with another pair of speakers that either take up space or get sold at a loss. The same would apply to 2nd hand examples of the ProAcs I mentioned.

I'm still very interested in the new KEF Q300s (which sound like they might have moved slightly more in the B&W direction than the old iQ range but perhaps with more spacious soundstaging and openess) and I think I should also listen to the B&W CM1s, which sound like they may fit the bill. For the sake of comparison the 685s are going to get another listen, as are the Dynaudio DM2/6. If I liked the Dyns in the audition room I would have to secure a home audition as they seem to be quite room dependent from what I've been reading.