Speaker cable

[hificonfused]

I have B & W cm10 with Cyrus cd8 SE CD player 2x mono x 200 signature power amp, Cyrus pre vs2 pre amp.

I currently have atlas hyper 2.0 speaker cable. I think it may be time to upgrade the speaker cable. I like a detailed sound with controlled bass.

Any suggestions would be helpful as speaker cable is unknown to me, where I normally just trust the dealer to supply whatever they think best. Any sort of budget can be blown out of the water very easily.

 

[bluedroog]

I don't know your cable but honestly unless it is that 1mm white plastic covered rubbish you'll not likely experince much of an upgrade at this end of Hi-Fi. If you want to get something better have a look at some pro audio sensibly priced cable such as Van Damme blue.

 

[gasolin]

why?

From the whathifi review

The Hyper 2.0 is a class-leading speaker cable that sounds superb

 

[andyjm]

why?

From the whathifi review

The Hyper 2.0 is a class-leading speaker cable that sounds superb

Rather than have me run through (again) all the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness will sound the same, lets mix this up a little for a change.

What are the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness could possibly sound different?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

All the teasing aside...the only cable that has cought the imagination of even nae sayers is tellurium Q black...... I haven't heard it nor do I have any interest in cable swapping etc....so go get a trial of some if you can before parting with your hard earned.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Which nae sayers have had their imaginations caught by this over-priced snake oil cable?

 

[lpv]

I would look first at power cables as some quality hoses will get you to another level if not another dimension..

 

[chebby]

You've already spent out (on present prices) £21 per metre for the Atlas cables you have now.

I am not going to advise you to needlessly spend even more money 'upgrading' what cannot be upgraded. (That is your dealer's job and he's done well so far.)

Your Atlas 2.0 cables give you 2mm square millimetres cross-sectional area of OFC copper per conductor which is fine.

You could have spent £5 per metre and got any number of equivalently performing cables (and a handy chunk of saved money) but that can't be undone now. I just hope you aren't gulled into spending another small fortune on even more expensive cables by your dealer.

At least ask him to set up a 'blind' test between your old cables and the 'upgrade cables' (preferably at your home) where someone you nominate is in charge of the cable swaps (and ensuring the volume control isn't adjusted without your knowledge between swaps).

 

[matthewpiano]

I was previously using Atlas Equator 2.0 speaker cable, at £6.25 per metre. It got damaged and I replaced it with some new QED 79-Strand at £2.20 per metre.

I wouldn't waste money changing from 79-Strand now.

 

[MajorFubar]

nae sayers

There are no ‘nae sayers’ when it comes to analogue cables. Everybody knows crap cables can adversely affect the sound. What there are, however, are two types of people. Firstly there are people who understand that cables with adequate electrical characteristics, capable of delivering the low-voltage high-current output to the speakers without significant loss, are obviously going to perform the job as well as each other. Then there are people who think even though two different cables have just as adequate electrical characteristics, the cables will sound different because of a reason science doesn't yet understand but the high-end cable manufacturers do.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi hific.

Also consider these - basic 79, 500 or 1200 strand OFC speaker cables which you should be able pick up for relatively little outlay.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

If you haven't bi-wired by now, do it, or at least replace the brass jumpers on the back of your speakers with some decent ones made out of the same speaker cable you use for your main runs, or better still purpose made ones like the Chord Signature or the crazily expensive Chord Sarum.
I started out with Atlas Equator biwire cables (still got them in the attic) but swapped to Chord Cables pretty quickly. Not night and day, but certainly Vauxhall Omega to BMW 5 series type change.
In my last proper setup in the UK with bi-amped Cyrus X-powers running in twin mono mode, I used 2 runs of Chord Odyssey 4 cable to each speaker, doubling up on the cores, I.e. two cores per banana plug. Probably overkill, but they sounded great driving my ProAc Studio 140 speakers.
Chord don't make Odyssey 4 any more, but you could still bi-wire with Odyssey 2, Signature, or if you own Guildford or somewhere like, Sarum cables.
Pay close attention to the plugs, banana, spade. or those weird ones Cyrus kit demands. Ideally buy Chord runs pre-terminated by Chord.
Oh. Yes I do like Chord cables. No I don't work for Chord.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

why?

From the whathifi review

The Hyper 2.0 is a class-leading speaker cable that sounds superb

Rather than have me run through (again) all the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness will sound the same, lets mix this up a little for a change.

What are the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness could possibly sound different?

 

Different alloys.
Different wire drawing processes, which effect the crystalline structure of the wires.
In a multistrand cable, the number of strands, the lay pattern, lay pitch, lay tension. Use of different materials for inner and outer strands. Hollow or plastic cores around which the conductors are wrapped to maximize skin effect.
Different insulation materials with different dielectric parameters.
All of which effect the impedances of the cables, which are frequency sensitive.
Next?

 

[abacus]

why?

From the whathifi review

The Hyper 2.0 is a class-leading speaker cable that sounds superb

Rather than have me run through (again) all the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness will sound the same, lets mix this up a little for a change.

What are the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness could possibly sound different?

Different alloys. Different wire drawing processes, which effect the crystalline structure of the wires. In a multistrand cable, the number of strands, the lay pattern, lay pitch, lay tension. Use of different materials for inner and outer strands. Hollow or plastic cores around which the conductors are wrapped to maximize skin effect. Different insulation materials with different dielectric parameters. All of which effect the impedances of the cables, which are frequency sensitive. Next?

You say you don’t work for Chord, but your descriptions are typical of what they come out with, however what they don’t tell you, (And neither have you) is that none of it makes any difference to the sound in the audio band that everybody listens too. (Once again the descriptions are just a con to target the gullible, which anyone that remembers their elemental science classes can see through right away)

NOTE: If you can provide verifiable scientific proof that the details you mention do make a difference in the audio range, then please post the links, as I am always open to any verifiable scientific evidence that can be provided to challenge current scientific knowledge.

Bill



BTW: Bi-wiring is also a load of twaddle, plus the links provided by the manufacture will normally have a much greater CSA then the cable used to connect the speakers to the amplifier, so changing them is a complete nonsense. (Unless of course you can provide verifiable scientific proof)

 

[andyjm]

why?

From the whathifi review

The Hyper 2.0 is a class-leading speaker cable that sounds superb

Rather than have me run through (again) all the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness will sound the same, lets mix this up a little for a change.

What are the technical reasons why two well made cables of the same thickness could possibly sound different?

Different alloys. Different wire drawing processes, which effect the crystalline structure of the wires. In a multistrand cable, the number of strands, the lay pattern, lay pitch, lay tension. Use of different materials for inner and outer strands. Hollow or plastic cores around which the conductors are wrapped to maximize skin effect. Different insulation materials with different dielectric parameters. All of which effect the impedances of the cables, which are frequency sensitive. Next?

One of the early challenges faced by those entereing the field of engineering is the realisation that everything makes a difference, but not everything matters.

The position of the moon relative to the earth will make a measurable difference to the gravitational pull on a tone arm on a turntable. I could design a device to adjust the downforce on the stylus to compensate for this. Is it measurable ? - yes. Does it matter ? - no.

All of the factors you mention may make a measurable difference (though I might argue a couple of them), but this is baseband audio we are talking about over short lengths of cable, and the effects will be very small. An amplifier has an extremely low output impedance, and a speaker a very low load impedance. Inductive or capacitive effects at baseband audio frequencies are very low and get swamped by resistive effects.

So rather than pluck marketing statements out of the air, how about a worked example or two?

See if you can find a link to analysis that shows that any of the effects you mention make a difference that would be audible. There are a number of studies on the web about the threshold of audible change - how much the sound has to change to be noticable. It ranges between 0.1dB and 1dB.

I look forward to seeing the analysis.

 

[Gaz37]

You've already spent out (on present prices) £21 per metre for the Atlas cables you have now.

I am not going to advise you to needlessly spend even more money 'upgrading' what cannot be upgraded. (That is your dealer's job and he's done well so far.)

Your Atlas 2.0 cables give you 2mm square millimetres cross-sectional area of OFC copper per conductor which is fine.

You could have spent £5 per metre and got any number of equivalently performing cables (and a handy chunk of saved money) but that can't be undone now.  I just hope you aren't gulled into spending another small fortune on even more expensive cables by your dealer.

At least ask him to set up a 'blind' test between your old cables and the 'upgrade cables' (preferably at your home) where someone you nominate is in charge of the cable swaps (and ensuring the volume control isn't adjusted without your knowledge between swaps).

YOU swap the cables and get the dealer to tell you which one is which. I bet they won't let you do it.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

I have B & W cm10 with Cyrus cd8 SE CD player 2x mono x 200 signature power amp, Cyrus pre vs2 pre amp.

I currently have atlas hyper 2.0 speaker cable. I think it may be time to upgrade the speaker cable. I like a detailed sound with controlled bass.

Any suggestions would be helpful as speaker cable is unknown to me, where I normally just trust the dealer to supply whatever they think best. Any sort of budget can be blown out of the water very easily.

Changing your cable will have no effect on what you search to modify.

What is the problem with your bass ?

 

[hificonfused]

So, cables don't matter to some. Cables do matter to others. I will experiment and see if I can tell a difference. I think cables are a little like the emporers new clothes!

I have heard if you stand on your head and stick your feet behind both ears, sound can be improved on hi fi systems As a fifty year old I will spend my budget on yoga classes. Better sound with a side effect of improved fitness.

 

[andyjm]

So, cables don't matter to some. Cables do matter to others. I will experiment and see if I can tell a difference. I think cables are a little like the emporers new clothes!

I have heard if you stand on your head and stick your feet behind both ears, sound can be improved on hi fi systems As a fifty year old I will spend my budget on yoga classes. Better sound with a side effect of improved fitness.

Whether cables matter to individuals or not is neither here nor there. The question you should be asking is whether they make an audible difference.

Technically, two well made cables of the same thickness will produce a sound which is identical to listeners, whether or not the cables matter to them. Whether they believe the sound is different or not is another matter entirely.

 

[beaker_07]

I am currently using 13 amp solid core twin and earth cable which I am quite happy with but was wondering whether it would be better to use 79 strand either QED or other I have been also been recommended QED silver anniversary cable as a multi strand option?

I have been reading with interest the theory of similar types of cable all sounding the same.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

As long as you aren't using Naim amplification with qed silver cable..it doesn't go well together....I know this from first hand experience.All cables are not equal as some would have you believe.I'm not saying it's bad...it worked fine with my arcam set up but naim and silver cable.....no.

 

[beaker_07]

Thanks - I have a Denon 2300 a/v amplifier and Monitor Audio Bronze speakers

 

[abacus]

I am currently using 13 amp solid core twin and earth cable which I am quite happy with but was wondering whether it would be better to use 79 strand either QED or other I have been also been recommended QED silver anniversary cable as a multi strand option?

I have been reading with interest the theory of similar types of cable all sounding the same.

Multi- strand cable is easier to run in a normal domestic environment, but will not make the slightest difference to the sound compared to your solid core.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[andyjm]

I am currently using 13 amp solid core twin and earth cable which I am quite happy with but was wondering whether it would be better to use 79 strand either QED or other I have been also been recommended QED silver anniversary cable as a multi strand option?

I have been reading with interest the theory of similar types of cable all sounding the same.

As with many things in life, size matters when it comes to speaker cable. As a general rule of thumb, 2.5mmsq cross sectional area (CSA) is a good size to aim for. The sort of solid core twin and earth cable used by electricians to wire up mains sockets in the UK is (by chance) 2.5mmsq CSA and makes excellent speaker cable. It is a bit of a pain to run, but it does at least stay put when you bend it.

I am not sure what you mean by 13amp twin and earth, but check the size and see if it is 2.5mmsq.

QED 79 strand comes in a couple of flavours, but the 2.5mmsq version is also excellent speaker cable - it won't have any advantage over the mains cable except that it is more flexible.

Another rule of thumb (of mine) is that any speaker cable that has a stupid name is clearly more about maketing that performance, and I am afraid 'silver anniversary' falls into that camp.

 

[nopiano]

I don't recall seeing this useful video about cables on these pages before. Everything becomes clearer, and funnier, if you watch it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQDTZcpsDE