Speaker advice please

Brian K

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Hi There,

I'm replacing my old hi-fi over the next few months (Garrard GT20, Nad 310 and Hitachi SS850MKII speakers). I read that you should place speakers at the heart of your system and from looking at reviews it seems that some speakers suit certain types of music better than others. Musically I tend towards indie/alternative and dance stuff - often bass heavy, rhythmically complex and lots of synths but I also listen to old Motown, the Doors, Velvet Underground, Kate Bush...

Looking at deals in Richer Sounds I'm torn between standmounts and floorstanders. For the former Wharfedale Diamond 220s or Tannoy Revolution DC6s. The latter is a 3-way split between the Diamond 151s, Mission MX3s or Tannoy Mercury V4s. All come in at between £200 and £250. Do any of these stike you as more suitable than others? The amp is likely to be an Onkyo A-9030 or Yamaha AS500. (CD/Tape deck is a Tascam CC222SL MKII).

Any advice would be very much appreciated.
 

davedotco

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Listen to the amp/speaker combination, buy the set that sounds the best to you.

There is little qualitive difference between the models mentioned but they all present the sound very differently.

Try the various combos and pick the seutup thar suits you and your music best.
 

Frank Harvey

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Just bear in mind that trying to get bass quantity at the budget end of the speaker market will normally end in average quality bass, comprising more of various distortions and cabinet colourations than any real quality. To reproduce bass well, you need a well built, quality bass driver working well in a well constructed, solid cabinet. Of course, this costs.

For me, quality floorstanders start around the £1k mark, so I would suggest listening to speakers like the Monitor Audio Silver 6 or the Q Acoustics Concept 40 to give you an idea of the sort of bass achievable from this type of speaker at this price point. This will give you a reference point, and hopefully allow you to detect clean bass from distorted bass.

Coming down from that point, there's the Q Acoustics 2050i and the Dali Zensor 5, both around the £500 mark. I'd say this really is entry level into any sort of decent bass from a floorstander. I would usually recommend standmount speakers at this sort of price point as they're overall a better compromise between price and quality. If you really want to stick to a floorstander, look at Wharfedale, Mission and Tannoy. You may find the odd discontinued speaker can be had for a good price which will improve your chance of getting a better system, and the sort of bass you might be looking for.

While I do find some speakers are better suited to some genres of music, it is usually because their "non flat" frequency response characteristics, but I find that less important compared to how your room is going to affect the end result of your system. Audition and compare with your music choices, and also bear in mind that the speakers aren't the be all and end all - you can have the best speakers in the world, but if the amplifier isn't doing a good job of driving and controlling them, they won't be sounding like the best speakers in the world. It is a very important match, so don't blow most of your budget on the biggest boxes with the biggest drivers and stick any old amplifier in front of them.
 

peterpiper

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between those two amps i would say the onkyo is the better one if you like bassy stuff, more rythmically engaging too, , the yammy is 'dryer' sounding, i have owned both
 

Brian K

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Thanks for the feedback. peterpiper - the Onkyo was acually my first choice but then I saw the Yamaha on clearance and it had a 5-star review on here against the Onkyo's 4. Now I feel better about the Onkyo. It's also cheaper and is stocked by Richer Sounds, who do all the speakers I'm interested in except the 155s (typo earlier rendered then 151s!) which simplifies the listening tests suggested above.
 

rainsoothe

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for that budget you should look at actives or second hand market - it will yield much better stuff then buying new. If you don't mind utilitarian look and not having a remote, best bang-for-buck will be Yamaha HS5 (or HS7 for bigger) studio monitors and some form of volume control, like Behringer UCA 202 or the likes (something with an analogue input). This also has a USB DAC in case you wanna connect a PC or laptop to it.

As for 2nd hand market, you could look for a Rotel RA 1062 (there's one on the bay dot de atm, this is a VERY good amp btw) and B&W DM602 S3 or new XTZ 93.23 mk II (these will wipe the floor with the speakers you mentioned).

Or, if you're still keen on buying new but want hi-fi looks, Nad C326 BEE (or C316 BEE for cheaper), and XTZ 93.23 mk II or Dali Zensor 3. These are way better suited for the music you're into, with a convincing nod going towards the XTZ (you won't find better for the money imo).
 

peterpiper

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agree with the used stuff, that is if you are prepared to take the risk or find what you want, some bargains to be found, if going new what about a pioneer A30, better than the AS500 in my opinion, if you can stretch a little more the marant 6005 is superb for the money, I have been on a bit of a box swapping mission with my budget amps over the years and finally settled on Rotel RA10 which has the right balance of sound that pleases my ears, controlled bass and musical, a bit beyond budget but should have some used examples around now, its a little gem, sorry but i cant comment much on the speakers as i have stuck with my trusty ae109's , but the tannoy v4 is excellent for a cheap floorstander, and seems to not suffer from too much colouration despite having big cheap boxes, some clever tuning of the drivers and cabinet by tannoys enginneers no doubt
 
A

Anderson

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I was under the impression the tannoy dc6 are 2.5 way?
 

drummerman

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Q Acoustics showed a new model at the Bristol which apparently raised a few eyebrows, the model number of which escapes me. It will retail at just under £200.

May well be worth waiting for.
 

drummerman

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Q Acoustics showed a new bookshelf at the Bristol which apparently raised a few eyebrows when used with over £3k of Arcam amplifier. The model number escapes me. It will retail at just under £200.

May well be worth waiting for.
 

jonathanRD

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drummerman said:
Q Acoustics showed a new bookshelf at the Bristol which apparently raised a few eyebrows when used with over £3k of Arcam amplifier. The model number escapes me. It will retail at just under £200.

May well be worth waiting for.

It was the 3020
 

drummerman

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jonathanRD said:
drummerman said:
Q Acoustics showed a new bookshelf at the Bristol which apparently raised a few eyebrows when used with over £3k of Arcam amplifier. The model number escapes me. It will retail at just under £200.

May well be worth waiting for.

It was the 3020

Thanks, thats the ones.

Having re-read the OP's brief, I think he may be better off with a pair of MX3's from mission. They reviewed well on several occasions and will probably be a little bassier.
 
A

Anderson

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I'm not knocking the sound of the things because I haven't heard them but does anyone else find the Q Accoustics to be ugly as sin?
 

Jota180

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Anderson said:
I'm not knocking the sound of the things because I haven't heard them but does anyone else find the Q Accoustics to be ugly as sin?

I find most speakers to be various stages of ugly. But I guess different designs may suit different living rooms.
 

luckylion100

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which coupled with their stands attracted mixed reactions regarding their looks. I think in white they looked like radiators, hence my choice of black. This new range however are offensive to look at! ;-)
 

Gazzip

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peterpiper said:
agree with the used stuff, that is if you are prepared to take the risk or find what you want, some bargains to be found

Peterpiper is correct that buying second hand from sites such as eBay is a risky business. Although I have so far not been personally burned by such a purchase I did pay for an Isotek Titan a few years ago that never turned up. PayPal sorted it out for me.

I have purchased quite a bit of second hand stuff from dealers/shops recently, trade in or ex-demo. That seems like a safe-ish middle ground where you get a relative bargain with some protection.

Buying second hand from Europe is something I won't do again having had to commission costly repairs to both items purchased upon receipt.
 

BigH

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There are some good deals to be had even new speakers, look at Richer Sounds website. A few things, bass canbe an issue with some speakers, your room is an important factor, positioning also. The other problem canbe the treble, some find it too bright, harsh, hard, some won't have metal tweeters but I believe Kefs have metal tweeters and I did not find them to be a problem. Don't rush into buying anything. Some systems may sound impressive initially, but canbe tiring after a while, seen plenty of posts on here. I'm generally not a fan of cheaper floorstanders. The Tannoys DC6s are good value but Ive read a few negative posts on here recently about lack of bass.

I would not be pushed into buying anything unless you are really happy, even then I would think about it for a while.
 

Brian K

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and advice. I won't be buying anything until late Summer, early Autumn so no rushing (good advie though BigH).

peterpiper - the mention of the Pioneer A30 is prescient as it's the other amp I was considering, I just haven't found any reviews for it. I know the Marantz is supposed to be superb but it does bust my budget. On a totally trivial level, I also dislike the styling.

On which front, aesthetics are the main reason Qs aren't on my list and rainsoothe, I'm sure the XTZs are excellent but, aside from the cost of shipping from Sweden, they are pretty ugly though I was grateful for the suggestion and the specs and purchase price are excellent.

Anderson - I have no idea what 2.5 means and a brief google hasn't left me much better informed in terms of pros and cons.

Re the floorstanders I mentioned, both the 155s and V4s have tweeter, midrange and bass whilst the MX3s just have a tweeter and combined mid-range/bass. In this price-range does that make much of a difference? I also note that in their reviews What suggest that some of the speakers are best bi-wired. Having read around on this subject it seems the jury is out on whether bi-wiring really make much difference although I want to get decent cables (Monoprice 14AWG and closed-screw copper banana plugs?) and presumably biwiring means twice the cost.

Is a subwoofer such as a Yamaha YST-FSW100 or 050 worth considering as an addition? (Onkyo amd Yamaha amps both have a sub output).

Thanks again for everyone's help and sorry to come back with even more questions but as youll gather, this is fairly new to me.
 

rainsoothe

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if aesthetics are important, then I guess studio monitors are out of the question as well (unless you like their looks). But I would stay clear of Pioneer/Yamaha amps, imo something like a NAD or Rotel would better them any day with the type of music you're into. Seriously, with your budget, you'll get way more buying used - I don't see any risks if at least you buy from bayers with good reviews, and that 1062 really is the bee's knees (at least for my tastes).
 

Brian K

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I'll keep my eyes peeled on ebay but so far not a 1062 to be seen amongst the Rotels on offer.

The snag with the Rotel (and NAD) is the lack of a phono stage, necessitating a further spend and more decisions!! Cambridge Azur 551p perhaps? My existng NAD 310 doesn't have a pre-amp either and I survived on a Radio Shack Realistic 42-8930 (no laughter please) but that has long since gone into retirement with the Garrard GT-20. Being able to use a turntable is a must as I have a huge collection of albums and, paricularly, 12" singles that I want to play.

Looks-wise, my favourite speakers are the old Diamond 10.2s btw, the newer Wharfedales don't look nearly as good.
 

Blackdawn

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looks-wise, my favourite speakers are the old Diamond 10.2s btw, the newer Wharfedales don't look nearly as good.

[/quote]

Hi, I personally think the new 200 series looks really good. The Diamond 220 and 230 have both had good reviews. Other speakers makes I would look at are Dali (Zensors or Lektors) and Mission (Mx2, Mx3).

Amps - Pioneer A30, Denon PMA 720Ae, Onkyo A-9030.
 

Brian K

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I've been keeping an eye on eBay as suggested but no more Rotel 1062 at present. I haven't a clue what other pre-loved models I should look for. I have no objection to using eBay, that's how I got my Tascam and at a very decent price but I knew what I was looking for in that instance, not least because the only alternative was a poorly reviewed TEAC (same company so not sure what TEAC were thinking). Speakerwise I checked out the Yamaha HS5s as suggested and they look damn fine but powered speakers takes me into a whole new and unexplored territory.

I am seriously considering the 220s btw, but I did like the shape and matt finish on the 10.2s. The Missions mentioned are on my list too.

I
 

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