Soundcard vs DAC

idc

Well-known member
This issue has kept cropping up recently. I have always assumed that for music an offboard DAC primarliy designed for use in a hifi beats a PC soundcard which is designed for the computer to produce an analogue signal. But is that really the case? Has anyone got comparisons to share?

My own limited experience is that headphones via a Fubar USB DAC from a Dell Inspiron 1300 beats the headphone out from the same laptop hands down. The PC has hiss, sounds dull, lacks sound stage, detail and musicality and anything else you can think of.
 
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Anonymous

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I use one of these

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/8246-alesis-io2.html

I bought it for recording my own music into my laptop but the sound I get playing Spotify and 320k mp3s through it are great. I cant honestly say it sounds any worse than my cdp.
 

idc

Well-known member
So, on reading another forum which has more of leaning towards PC based music, there is no great consensus as Soundcard vs DAC. There appear to some very musical soundcards out there. But, looking at the equipment lists of forum members, particularly older (which could well be 20s plus as opposed to teens) ones, the DAC is favoured. That is because DACs are made with music and hifi in mind, whereas soundcards are often bought by gamers. Not that gamers are uninterested in the quality of sound for the games. It is just that the two products appeal to different markets.

Clearly here the DAC reigns supreme as this does not appear to be a subject that generates any interest!
 
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Anonymous

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Some soundcards are definitely designed with audio in mind rather than gamers, and I suspect you can get better value than an external DAC. I'd heard very good things about this card which has been sat in the 'think about for later' part of my Amazon basket for some time!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002BZIZ04/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A1AUCPBF2P18HS

Edit: most of the online reviews of top soundcards are from computer component websites. Do you 'print' hifi mags review many audiophile soundcards or not yet?
 

knacker

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I have got that Asus soundcard and can happily say that it is one of the best cards that I have ever used. It is miles better than any of the Creative Soundblaster/Audigy/Xifi cards that I have previously used.

However, I have got a CA Dacmagic and can safely say that to my ears there is no comparison between them.
 
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Anonymous

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I used to have an M-Audio 2496 soundcard connected via it's rca outs to my amp. It had the benefit of also being able to record audio in hi-resolution formats via it's rca inputs. The noise level as I recall was very low and it sounded great. Personally I think a good quality internal card installed properly can be a decent source.
 

idc

Well-known member
Can you give us more detail on the difference in sound between the soundcard and DAC knacker. For example, does the soundcard carry more background hiss than the DAC through to the speakers? That is the most noticeable difference between plugging my headphones into the PC and into the hifi.
 

Alec

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Rob_manchester:

Some soundcards are definitely designed with audio in mind

I hope they all are.

I didnt notice that much difference when i installed my 2496. Noticed a lot more when i attached my beresford to it.

EDIT - at the time teh 2496, or at least a card with a digital connection, was a necessity as the beresford didnt have a usb connection and the dacmagic wasnt out. so someties sondcards are just a way of getting the connections you need.
 
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Anonymous

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Can anyone tell me if an external DAC would be better than the Alesis IO2 that I have now?

This thread has got me thinking!
 
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Anonymous

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I guess the problems of an internal soundcard are that you're never going to be totally isolated from the interference within the case of the PC. Although with the 2496 I didn't notice any problems, that may have been different had I also had a beefy graphics card or other devices installed as well, so other components can be a factor. Also you are sharing a power supply with the rest of the PC. It's must simpler to get good performance from a box that connects externally to the computer with it's own power supply.
 

idc

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al7478:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002BZIZ04/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A1AUCPBF2P18HS

it wasnt working for me so i made it clicky.

Anyone know how it differs from the STX?

The one user review of that soundcard rates it as a big improvement on the one you have in your signature al. I had wondered how your system worked as ypou seemed to have a DAC with the soundcard plugged into another DAC in the AVIs. I take it that the soundcard for you, is just a means of getting a digital signal to the AVI?
 

idc

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Its the gubbins inside your PC that makes the PC make noises. In effect it is the PCs own DAC which makes the digital signals for the USB, optical, digital coax to send elesewhere. But it also deals with making the PCs own analogue signal for the headphone jack and for its own speakers so you can hear everything from Youtube to the various beeps and clicks that accompany some functions.
 

Alec

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idc:al7478:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002BZIZ04/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A1AUCPBF2P18HS

it wasnt working for me so i made it clicky.

Anyone know how it differs from the STX?

The one user review of that soundcard rates it as a big improvement on the one you have in your signature al. I had wondered how your system worked as ypou seemed to have a DAC with the soundcard plugged into another DAC in the AVIs. I take it that the soundcard for you, is just a means of getting a digital signal to the AVI?

Cheers, i hadnt thought to look at the reviews. Someone reccommended it to me a few weeks back as it goes. Might well have it in my next machine which ill be getting in jan.

as to your question idc, and forgive me if its a fuller answer than you were looking for:

I first had a nad amp pluged into the 3.5mm connections on the back of my pc with on-board sound. Then i heard about the beresford and needed the right connections, so got the 2496 which many were raving about at the time. i listened to it on its own for a while before getting the beresford, and wasnt anywhere near as impressed as i thought i would be. So, really, i had the soundcard as a means of getting a signal to the beresford.

Now, i only use the dac in the AVIs. However, because the AVIs only have an optical connection and the 2496 a coax, i have to use a coax cable, one of these, then an optical cable into the speakers. The adaptor, however, requires its own power supply, so id like to get rid of it when i get my new pc, hence my interest in that Asus card a few weeks ago, as it has an optical connection.

In theory, any old card should sound ok, as long as it has optical. however, i briefly used a cheap (£20) Trust card with an optical with the AVIs til someone talked me in to putting the 2496 back and using the adaptor. I think i heard an improvement (cue twighlight zone music). So maybe im better off going with a superior card such as the Asus...
 

idc

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fatboyslimfast:JoelSim:What's a soundcard? Nothing to see here, Joel...move away from the thread...

Its the question many were hoping that someone else would ask.
 
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Anonymous

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al7478:Rob_manchester:

Some soundcards are definitely designed with audio in mind

I hope they all are.

Not my best choice of word!

I'm still at the stage where my only digital source is cd but I wouldn't mind a decent soundcard inside the PC. Even if it's not connected to the same rig it would be a bonus stepping up from the current on-board sound.

The one thing that stops me buying a decent soundcard is the feeling that a bunch more models may be just around the corner as some of the traditional hifi manufacturers start to get involved more in the PC audio side of things.
 

Alec

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Rob_manchester:al7478:Rob_manchester:

Some soundcards are definitely designed with audio in mind

I hope they all are.

Not my best choice of word!

I'm still at the stage where my only digital source is cd but I wouldn't mind a decent soundcard inside the PC. Even if it's not connected to the same rig it would be a bonus stepping up from the current on-board sound.

The one thing that stops me buying a decent soundcard is the feeling that a bunch more models may be just around the corner as some of the traditional hifi manufacturers start to get involved more in the PC audio side of things.

Sorry, couldnt resist being a smart Alec.

And i might be one again. Remember that the reason you give for not wanting to get a soundcard yet could be used for lots of things. Moreover, you may be better off with a usb DAC nowadays, and forget the soundcard. And that way you can go to recongnised hifi brands like cambridge or beresford.
 

idc

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Yes, thanks al. So the plan is a new PC with an optical out so your system will be PC - AVI. How brilliantly simple! (Don't pass this bit on as I don't want this to become another AVI thread, but it is that simplicity that appeals. Though I would need a PC with an optical out. I don't like the idea of extra gubbins converting one signal type to another) What have you done with the Beresford?
 
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Anonymous

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al7478:
Remember that the reason you give for not wanting to get a soundcard yet could be used for lots of things. Moreover, you may be better off with a usb DAC nowadays, and forget the soundcard. And that way you can go to recongnised hifi brands like cambridge or beresford.

My hifi for the forseeable future will remain cdp/tuner/amp/speakers - I feel no need to connect the two. The benefit of a better soundcard would of course be improved casual music on the PC whilst working (I have a pair of resonable speakers used with the computer). USB DAC would do the job of course but I (& my other half!) am desparately trying to cut down on the number of external devices floating around the computer! Monitors, printer, screen calibrator, network switch, broadband hub, nas, scanner...it goes on :)
 

knacker

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the biggest difference that I get with the external DAC over the internal soundcard is a less noisy and choppy playback probably due to the close proximity of interference from mostly fans ie CPU fan and GPU fans. I have even tried using the Asus card in a silent PC machine with no fans and all onboard VGA and the DAC still sounds better to me.

I also think that the sound is slightly warmer less clinical/robotic if that is possible to hear it considering I am sending signal to my Cyrus amp!!!

My wife who can't see any difference between SD and HD pictures even when I play the same thing on Bluray compared to DVD via scart thinks that the sound is much "betterer" since I've added that small black box with the blue lights
emotion-11.gif
 

Alec

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idc:Yes, thanks al. So the plan is a new PC with an optical out so your system will be PC - AVI.

Yes indeed. Just dont like the adaptor needing its own power supply. Perhaps psychological, but still.

idc:What have you done with the Beresford?

Flogged it, as i didnt think id have any further need for it. The buyer uses it with a squeezebox duet and seems happy enough.
 
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Anonymous

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Hello!

STX is PCI express and ST is good old plain PCI if im not mistaken. I've got the STX and i think its good for the money.
 

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