Soundcard Or External DAC?

Alec

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As some of you will know, the sound card question has been an issue for me for a while. The system I'll be pairing it with is in my sig. Anyway, could anyone tell me the difference between an external DAC and a sound card? Which do people prefer, and which specific models would you reccommend...? I'm willing to go to £100.00, and could be pushed further if there was a compelling reason, but I'll only be using it for music, I will neither record nor play games, nor watch movies with it, so i expect that budget will just about cover it. By the by, my music is currently in mp3 at 320 kbps, but will be in wave at 1411.2 kbps by the end of 2008 at the latest, i think - thats my biggest audio project for the year.
 
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Anonymous

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This is a very popular question lately. I almost always suggest an external USB DAC unless the person only has about £10 to work with. You should be able to get a decent one for £100.

Internal DACs are in a pretty bad environment for audio quality compared to externals. There is nothing HiFi about the internals of a PC.
 
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Anonymous

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External USB DAC have an advantage that they don't need to be placed inside the noisy cabin of a PC. Plus they are portable. One DAC can be used with many systems.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="The Computer Audiophile"]There is nothing HiFi about the internals of a PC.[/quote] I beg to differ, the innerds of a computer are not that different from most modern hifi kit.
 
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Anonymous

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How about THIS offering from Creative?

"Creative's
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio gives an experience beyond studio
quality with MP3 music and movies! Featuring award-winning X-Fi
technologies, X-Fi Crystalizer restores the details and vibrance lost
during MP3 and DIVX compression, breathing life back into any audio,
while X-Fi CMSS-3D expands stereo music and movies into amazing
surround sound
. Effective over virtually any speakers, including stereo
speakers, Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio even provides unbelievable
surround sound over normal headphones! The digital out for connecting
to a home cinema system make it ideal for Media Center PCs."

It doesn't sound too bad to me for <£27!
emotion-1.gif
 
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Anonymous

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Regarding Pingman's post, if you want some of the X-fi capabilities, but are using a notebook, Play.com are currently doing the external Xmod for just 30 quid including delivery. It's a commendably portable device with a handy volume knob... just a shame they didn't include battery power because it could have also done duty as a cheap headphone amp, though some enterprising types power it via the USB output of mobile phone recharge packs...

Al7478:
There are at least two differences between a standalone DAC and a soundcard.

DACs convert digital data - the sound represented as numbers - into the electrical "waveform" representation of the sound used to drive the speakers or whatever. Computers, with their myriad circuits, poorly screened, create lots of interference that can degrade the electrical signal when the sound is in that waveform format. So, it's preferable to convert the sound from its digital representation away from this interference: i.e., outside of the computer in an external DAC.

That said, the higher-end soundcards tend to be better-screened to avoid this problem, and external USB-linked DACs tend to be more expensive and limited somewhat by the USB buss (though this is more of an issue for extensive multitrack recording). Of course, as Richard points out, hifi can create interference too, though unlike computers, since audio quality is hifi's primary concern you are more likely to be able to find stuff designed to ameliorate this as much as possible, and of course an external DAC will limit the amount, since it comes after all sources in the chain.

The other advantage of a separate DAC is that, in principle, it will have been designed singly for that task, so will ideally be less compromised, and may be more flexible, with more inputs/outputs, upsampling and so on, which is why many people purchase DACs for their hifi as opposed to their computer, into which they plug their CD player and other digital sources. If separate, you can upgrade a DAC and effectively upgrade all digital components of your system.
 

Alec

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Thanks for such a full reply. So id probably be getting better hardware (and be less bogged down with gimmicks) with a DAC? Can anyone reccomend any in particular?
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="richardjlarby"][quote user="The Computer Audiophile"]There is nothing HiFi about the internals of a PC.[/quote] I beg to differ, the innerds of a computer are not that different from most modern hifi kit.[/quote]

no way, you've got high current equipment working at all kinds of clockspeeds. Aside from anything else, your power supply isn't gonna be clean, never mind the RF interference.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="al7478"]richardjlarby - do you use one?[/quote] currently using the internal decoders on his Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS. I have also used external DACs by using the 3.5mm digital output from the same card, piped into my Sony home cinema receiver's coax digital in. My soundcard has received THX certification, and it shows. There is a bit of benefit to be gained by applying a DAC, similar to the benefit of applying an external DAC to a CD transport. Personally, I think having my set up how it used to be, i.e. using my cinema amp, was as good as I have heard from a computer. I am considering getting myself an Asus Xonar D2 soundcard, its got ADCs in it and a interference shield. I will post back if its an incredible bit of kit.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Mr_Poletski"]no way, you've got high current equipment working at all kinds of clockspeeds.
Aside from anything else, your power supply isn't gonna be clean, never mind the
RF interference.[/quote] 50A Max, I match all my bus speeds, I cant say I have tested my PSU for cleanliness, and as for RF interference, the soundcard im after has shielding for that.
 

Alec

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Thanks. Do you have any experience of external soundcards, or external DACs on their own - just with on board sound, as opposed to in conjunction with a sound card? At the moment, external DAC OR external sound card is what im thinking, you see.
 
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Anonymous

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al7478

Well, just for the saxe of clarity, I should stress that a DAC - a digital-to-analog convertor - is necessary whichever approach you use. The differences lie in the implementation of the DAC. So, broadly speaking, if the sound sound source is a computer, you have 3 choices:

1) Internal soundcard, with DAC on the card, outputting audio via line-out

2) external soundcard, with DAC outside the PC, connecting via USB (in pro-audio circles, sometimes via Firewire)

3) connecting a computer via its digital output to an external hifi DAC, rather than USB. Hifi DACs don't tend to have a USB option, though some are now cropping up, an example being the Russ Andrews

If you use the internal soundcard's DAC, then you have the interference problem... it needs to be very well-screened, and as you note, in many cases only a proportion of the investment goes into the DAC. An external card shouldn't really have the screening problem, but it may also be packed with gimmicks. A hifi DAC is more likely to concentrate on pure sound quality, and you are likely to be able to plug all your digital hifi sources into it so they all benefit.

However, many hifi DACs do not offer a USB input, and some contend that connecting a computer via say the optical interface isn't quite as good quality. The other problem is that, while in America say, there are a number of cheap-but-good hifi DACs to choose from, in the UK I only know of one: the Beresford.

An alternative route is to use the DAC of an existing high-quality component, IF it allows input from other sources... some use the 384kHz upsampling DAC on the Cambridge CD players for this purpose but, again, not cheap.

If you want to stay around a hundred quid, you therefore have 4 options, not 3, lol

1) Use an internal soundcard with good screening

2) use an external soundcard, which may be a bit pricier features-wise, but which has better screening

3) Plug the optical output (or coax, if appropriate) of the computer into a component with a decent DAC

4) Buy the Beresford, which will also potentially upgrade other hifi components, especially the more budget components.

The computer soundcard scene is constantly in flux, and to be honest I'm not up-to-date with the latest-and-greatest. Because I have an interest in audio production, I tend to use pro-audio external soundcards, which tend to be more focused on audio quality than 3D sound effects for gaming, etc., and these can be had quite cheap, but aren't necessarily that "hifi" in terms of a "musical" sound: they tend to be designed for accuracy for monitoring purposes, rather than to flatter the sound, and a proportion of the expense on THOSE tends to go into getting good sound INPUT, for recording, which may be a waste for you.

You see, it's an awkward question. That's why you haven't had many replies, lol...
 

Alec

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haha, many thanks for another lucid answer. ill have a look at the beresford. This is the thing, im trying to get a happy medium at a budget price. something that gives good audio quality but isnt concerned with gaming in any way is just the ticket. Soundcards also have preamps and op amps in dont they? Would these be inferior to my current set up (in my sig), meaning that an external DAC would be better, as it concentrates on a specific function and, as you say, may upgrade other kit to?
 
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Anonymous

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Yeah, it's highly likely that your NAD amp is going to do a better job than the pre-amps on many soundcards.

The Beresford is around a hundred quid.

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html

It's a bit "underground", but a good number rave about it at the price, and you can return it if not satisfied, I believe. I have yet to try it myself, but I plan to in the near future, not least because you can then do things like

1) plug an airport express (or other wireless-streaming device) into the optical input, and stream music remotely to your hifi from your computer, without having to rely on any cheap DAC in the wireless device

2) have some fun, plugging other digital gear into it, like a Behringer room EQ unit

It also has a useable headphone amp built in. Some people rave about his cables, considering them something of a bargain, but that's a whole other can of worms, liable to bring the cablophobes out in force, lol. Pretend I never mentioned the cable thing...
 
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Anonymous

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nope, its 100. Is your PC your only source? and is it a laptop or a tower unit PC?
 
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Anonymous

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Lol Richard, you edited your post. I was just about to question your sanity
 
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Anonymous

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lol, i was looking at about 5 different things then, I can't multi task. edited now.
 
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Anonymous

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maybe im not nuts, http://www.avreview.co.uk/review/reviewproduct/mps/RPN/9465/prod/Beresford-TC-7510-audio-DAC/RCN/52/rgn/6/v/5/sp/332308698956330484360
 
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Anonymous

Guest
[quote user="richardjlarby"]maybe im not nuts, http://www.avreview.co.uk/review/reviewproduct/mps/RPN/9465/prod/Beresford-TC-7510-audio-DAC/RCN/52/rgn/6/v/5/sp/332308698956330484360[/quote]

Yeah, I don't know why they listed that price on that review site. However, if you check the actual manufacturer's link I gave, it's listed correctly.

Also, if you actually read the review on the site you found, you'll see it's listed correctly there as well.

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/953/v/1/sp/
 

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