Sony PS3 Slim to BDP-S370 Very Bad Move

[bigboss]

fowler:bigboss:

SamsonD: Dr BB. Denon 2500BT? I think you need to have your eyes checked.

Well SamsonD, these are my findings & my friend's who owns the Denon. I'm only talking about blu-ray playback. I let my trustworthy Kuro upscale DVDs.

If you have a different opinion, so be it. You can keep your thoughts about my eyesight to yourself.

well i must need my eyes checking as well because like big boss and his friend im hard pressed to see any differance from my denon 2500bt and ps3! they look identical to me and my other half, and that was on my kuro and my infocus x10 projector when i had it.

 

[007L2Thrill]

Well I have the PS3 fat and I have tried the slim next to each other and the picture on the slim seemed to me a little softer and not as sharp as my fat.

 

[bigboss]

strapped for cash:That's the kind of feedback I was hoping for BB. It's the primary factor governing whether or not I buy a 370... Cheers.

But remember that the newer PS3 slim can bitstream audio. So theoretically, you shouldn't notice a difference when compared to the S370.

 

[bigboss]

matengawhat:i def can see improvements with panning and fast motion between the fat 60gb ps3 and both the sony 370 and 760 - sound is a lot better - don't know how different between the newer ps3 or the denon as not seen either - faults are subtle as no big picture errors these days or dodgy video tapes

You have a projector & a 104-inch screen, right? Maybe that's why you can notice the differences more clearly. I agree with you, the differences are not as large as you would notice on a VHS player or even a DVD player.

 

[tj27]

im giving the thumbs up for my ps3 slim

my mates had no idea it was my ps3 playing blu-ray's, they thought i had an expensive blu-ray player i had bought to go with me tv as they thought the picture was excellent. I certainly will be keeping it as a player aswell as a gaming machine.

 

[bigboss]

maxflinn:cheers bb , well theres a good pointer strapped

I have ordered TRONDHEIMSOLISTENE Divertimenti blu-ray music disc........will do a proper comparison between the Panasonic BD60 + Yamaha & PS3 to check for differences (comparison for audio can't get better than this). I'll post my findings.

 

[Anonymous]

bigboss:
maxflinn:cheers bb , well theres a good pointer strapped

I have ordered TRONDHEIMSOLISTENE Divertimenti blu-ray music disc........will do a proper comparison between the Panasonic BD60 + Yamaha & PS3 to check for differences (comparison for audio can't get better than this). I'll post my findings.

ah good man bb , im sure strapped will appreciate that

..

my vt20 should be sat in front of me soon by the way , hopefully in the next 3 weeks , ill also be getting a pana 3d player , ill do a 2d comparism with my sony 363 , ive a hunch what the outcome will be , but ill stay open minded anyways

 

[bigboss]

maxflinn: my vt20 should be sat in front of me soon by the way , hopefully in the next 3 weeks , ill also be getting a pana 3d player , ill do a 2d comparism with my sony 363 , ive a hunch what the outcome will be , but ill stay open minded anyways

I thought you were planning to buy it after a few months..............couldn't resist it, eh?

That's a top notch TV you're getting!

 

[Anonymous]

bigboss:
maxflinn: my vt20 should be sat in front of me soon by the way , hopefully in the next 3 weeks , ill also be getting a pana 3d player , ill do a 2d comparism with my sony 363 , ive a hunch what the outcome will be , but ill stay open minded anyways

I thought you were planning to buy it after a few months..............couldn't resist it, eh?

That's a top notch TV you're getting!

well ill have the funds a little earlier than expected , so , im jumping in ..

ta bb , ill be sure and post a full review once ive got things in place

edit .. i wonder if whfi and i will give a similar review

 

[FunkyMonkey]

The PS3 Slim is 3d ready, teh 370 is not.

 

[Anonymous]

The PS3 is only 3d ready for games a the moment - not films.

Another ps3 firmware update is due later in the summer to enable 3d movies, by which time the 370 should already have had its 3d firmware update.

Again, whether the player decodes into LPCM and passes this to receiver, or the receiver gets bitstream and then decodes to LPCM makes no difference. The decoding process just involves running a known algorithm against the source data to give the output. The input and output are both lossless meaning no detail is lost - so they will be exactly the same regardless of where the decoding takes place.

If both devices use the same algorithm for the decoding (and they will) how can it be different? Again look to the analogy of zipping and unzipping computer files.

 

[bigboss]

edsib1:

Another ps3 firmware update is due later in the summer to enable 3d movies, by which time the 370 should already have had its 3d firmware update.

The S370 is definitely NOT 3D ready & cannot be updated to play 3D movies, as confirmed by WHF staff.

The S470 can be made fully 3D compliant via the firmware update.

http://whathifi.com/News/Sony-confirms-third-model-in-3D-Blu-ray-player-range/

 

[strapped for cash]

maxflinn:bigboss:
maxflinn:cheers bb , well theres a good pointer strapped

I have ordered TRONDHEIMSOLISTENE Divertimenti blu-ray music disc........will do a proper comparison between the Panasonic BD60 + Yamaha & PS3 to check for differences (comparison for audio can't get better than this). I'll post my findings.

ah good man bb , im sure strapped will appreciate that

..

my vt20 should be sat in front of me soon by the way , hopefully in the next 3 weeks , ill also be getting a pana 3d player , ill do a 2d comparism with my sony 363 , ive a hunch what the outcome will be , but ill stay open minded anyways

Indeed I do!

Thanks BB, I'll be very interested to read the results. For the record, my PS3 is fat, though other posts seem to argue that it shouldn't make any difference where the decoding is done. Let's wait and see...

 

[WishTree]

Just to put my observations in one place

the pros of PS3 over S370

Excellent Fonts, Smooth Menus with overall ultra premium feel (you feel it more when you switch back from S370 and for sure menu movement on S370 is jerky)

SD Picture playback is excellent (it was always patchy on S370)

Sound Quality is definitely superior to S370 on MP3, at par on CDs, surround movie playback felt slightly better. There was some hollow feel to S370 sound

Bluray playback is same

The pros of S370 over PS3 slim

Thin format (but very poor build quality - remote feels like a cheap super market substitute for an original)

Quick Start

No Fan noise (This is the major challenge with PS3)

Great Youtube integration

Bluray loads much much faster

I am not sure how some people are deriving that S370 is better than PS3 Slim. One thing is for sure, before S370, I was under the impression that Sony is generally trying to provide premium in the main stream consumer market (especially with PS3 experience and age old Trinitron memories) but realized that they do make lesser build compromised products based on the price / product (sub) segments.

Both need a FAT32 formatted drive for USB, which feels like 90s!

I am very smitten by the Monolith designs and I hope the 52NX803 falls on the good side of Sony!

 

[007L2Thrill]

WishTree:

Just to put my observations in one place

the pros of PS3 over S370

Excellent Fonts, Smooth Menus with overall ultra premium feel (you feel it more when you switch back from S370 and for sure menu movement on S370 is jerky)

SD Picture playback is excellent (it was always patchy on S370)

Sound Quality is definitely superior to S370 on MP3, at par on CDs, surround movie playback felt slightly better. There was some hollow feel to S370 sound

Bluray playback is same

The pros of S370 over PS3 slim

Thin format (but very poor build quality - remote feels like a cheap super market substitute for an original)

Quick Start

No Fan noise (This is the major challenge with PS3)

Great Youtube integration

Bluray loads much much faster

I am not sure how some people are deriving that S370 is better than PS3 Slim. One thing is for sure, before S370, I was under the impression that Sony is generally trying to provide premium in the main stream consumer market (especially with PS3 experience and age old Trinitron memories) but realized that they do make lesser build compromised products based on the price / product (sub) segments.

Both need a FAT32 formatted drive for USB, which feels like 90s!

I am very smitten by the Monolith designs and I hope the 52NX803 falls on the good side of Sony!

Nice quick review.

 

[Anonymous]

To edsib 1

One has not to speak in theory but in practice, the sound quality of amp decoded sound is much better then the LPCM output by the ps3 (Cannot tell about other players cause that would be theory), I had to reduce the level of the sub after onstalling the new ps3 cause bass wass much bassier, in terms of clarity and detail theey where on par in my opinion, nu the phat with lpcm lacked bass fopr some reason. And altought you are right about the dcoding the final mix produced by one player/amp may actually differ, as for bass, trebble, and midrange level, as is the case for the Phat which has much lower bass levels.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I think there is a great misunderstanding about decoding (lossless) sound files. It is not the same as unzipping a file. Zip files are static data file.

Sound files are being decoded on the fly, and the digital signal can be noise shaped to give the resultant digital stream (PCM) that is not the same. There is not a single algorithm to achieve the PCM you want to.

When sound is bitstreamed from my player, it is DEFINITELY better than when it is PCM'd.

Regarding the PS3 vs 370 debate, I can only comment on the 470 model. I think this is the same as 370 but it is 3D READY.

The PCM sound from this is better than the PCM sound from the PS3. Don't ask me why, it just is. CD's sound the same.

The reason I went for the 470 rather than a PS3 slim is that I had read that panning shots were better. I have definitely noticed this. For example, the 470 gives smoother blu ray pictures in 1080p60Hz mode than the PS3 did in 1080p24Hz. Which shows that the 3:2 pulldown (correct phrase?) processing is pretty perfecton these modern machines. Onyl problemo is there is no option to force through 24Hz picture on teh 470, as there is on the PS3. Which is bad for my TV which can do 1080p24Hz but does not tell a HDMI connected device that it can!

 

[Anonymous]

"Sound files are being decoded on the fly,"

How - by magic?

We're in the digital world here....this is not analogue any more - there is no subjectiveness in the process.

You have a digital input signal, and u have a dedicated chip to decode the bitstream to lpcm.

This chip just contains a piece of software to carry out the conversion. It could just as easily be done in software on a general purpose CPU but would take far too long to respond to the input. Any 'chip' is just a piece of software or algorithm that had been built using transistors and logic gates rather than for and if statements.

In the digital world if u play the same track into the same converter a 1000 times the output will be the same each and every time. If u put the same chip into a player and an amp, and play the same track into each the output will still be exactly the same.

 

[professorhat]

edsib1:It could just as easily be done in software on a general purpose CPU but would take far too long to respond to the input.

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure this is how the PS3 decodes onboard, using its cell processor. I remember hearing (from what I seem to remember was a fairly reliable source) that Sony didn't include the necessary chip to allow bitstreaming on the original PS3 because they said the cell could carry out the decoding process better. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but if it is, it certainly suggests Sony believe where the soundtrack is decoded makes a difference.

Of course, they may just have said that to "market" that they didn't put the necessary hardware in to save costs...

 

[strapped for cash]

professorhat:
edsib1:It could just as easily be done in software on a general purpose CPU but would take far too long to respond to the input.

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure this is how the PS3 decodes onboard, using its cell processor. I remember hearing (from what I seem to remember was a fairly reliable source) that Sony didn't include the necessary chip to allow bitstreaming on the original PS3 because they said the cell could carry out the decoding process better. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but if it is, it certainly suggests Sony believe where the soundtrack is decoded makes a difference.

Of course, they may just have said that to "market" that they didn't put the necessary hardware in to save costs...

Though presumably this only applies to the fat PS3's ability to bitstream lossless audio? The fat PS3 could always bistream standard DD/DTS soundtracks...

 

[bigboss]

FunkyMonkey:

For example, the 470 gives smoother blu ray pictures in 1080p60Hz mode than the PS3 did in 1080p24Hz. Which shows that the 3:2 pulldown (correct phrase?) processing is pretty perfecton these modern machines. Onyl problemo is there is no option to force through 24Hz picture on teh 470, as there is on the PS3. Which is bad for my TV which can do 1080p24Hz but does not tell a HDMI connected device that it can!

But isn't 1080p/24Hz as the director intended?

 

[professorhat]

strapped for cash:Though presumably this only applies to the fat PS3's ability to bitstream lossless audio? The fat PS3 could always bistream standard DD/DTS soundtracks...

Indeed, I was only referring really to the Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio codecs.

 

[Frank Harvey]

FunkyMonkey: The reason I went for the 470 rather than a PS3 slim is that I had read that panning shots were better. I have definitely noticed this. For example, the 470 gives smoother blu ray pictures in 1080p60Hz mode than the PS3 did in 1080p24Hz. Which shows that the 3:2 pulldown (correct phrase?) processing is pretty perfecton these modern machines. Onyl problemo is there is no option to force through 24Hz picture on teh 470, as there is on the PS3. Which is bad for my TV which can do 1080p24Hz but does not tell a HDMI connected device that it can!

Are you sure it can't play back 24Hz?

 

[aliEnRIK]

edsib1:
There is no difference in quality between bitstream on the ps3 slim, and lpcm on the ps3 fat.

Remember with ur ps3 its easy and cheap to upgrade the internal hard drive to 500gb for around £50 so dont pay extra just for a model with a bigger drive. Takes about 30 secs to do.

U wont see any improvement in audio on the s370 either.

All the player does is decode the audio and pass to it to the receiver.

So your saying all bluray players are equal?

 

[Anonymous]

So your saying all bluray players are equal?

i have read that rik , not saying its what i believe , but lets face it , a bit of googling , weve all done it , and there are many who say blu-ray players barely differ at all ...

ill do my own testing before i say what i think ...