So, do all amplifiers sound the same?

[lindsayt]

Yes. I think if it can drive the rated ohms of your speakers, and if distortion is below .1%, every amp sounds the same. This endless and expensive search for costly high-end amps is all manufacturers' hype (IMHO).

If you only ever play test tones of a certain frequency at a certain volume through certain speakers then yes you will be able to find lots of amplifiers with less than 0.1% THD.

If you're like me and play a variety of music at a variety of volumes then you will not be able to find any amplifiers that have less than 0.1% distortion at all volumes, frequencies and impedances.

Every amplifier produces more than 1% THD+N as the power goes below 1/10th to 1 milliwatt. Many amplifiers will be producing much more than 10% THD+N at the microwatt power level. Every amplifier produces more than 10% THD+N when it goes into clipping.

Having said all that, the differences between my amplifiers are not as great as the differences between my sources and my speakers in my systems.

 

[the record spot]

No, all amps don't sound the same, or at least, in my experience, there's a difference between some I've used when nothing else has changed in the setup.

 

[drummerman]

Blimey is this thread still banging on, when the indisputable literal answer to the question is quite simply 'no'...

Ah ... thats ok then ...

regards

 

[fr0g]

Being entirely pedantic. All amps sound different. Even 2 amps of the same model do. No amp is a "perfect" signal amplifier and some are less perfect than others.

Whether we humans can hear the differences between similar measuring amps is a different prospect.

In a perect world amps "should" all sound the same or in fact, shouldn't "sound" like anything other than a louder version of the signal they are boosting, as, as has been stated their function is to increase the amplitude of a signal without distortion. But it isn't a perfect world and all amps distort. Some distort less than others and some distort in different ways. There are positive ABX tests for amplifiers which shows they are different...differently "not perfect".

Possibly you "could" say all amps are "broken", but if so, then so are all sources and all speakers as nothing perfectly reproduces the original sound.

"No man can ever step into the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man" - HeracIitus

 

[Native_bon]

No amps do not sound the same, even with tone controls.

The whole point of an amp is to amplify a signal, simple enough, but to do its job the amp must be able to control the speakers being used. Some amps do this better than others, even in the same price bracket. Even at 'fixed' levels the way an amp controls the driver in the speaker of choice will differ giving differnt harmonics hence a different sound.

An amp fully in control of its speakers will produce what the sound engineer intended to be heard, We all know that different parts of the driver produces different frequencies right?, hence an amp capable of getting a drive unit to produce the full frequency range presented to it will sound different to a less sophisticated amp. ambience, reverb, transients and all those hifi things.

Tone controls cannot make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. If a source provides a super hi res signal, but an amps cheap innards degrades this signal, and its control over the drive units in your speakers is lacking, you will never get it to sound like a well sorted amp. It'll never sound the same.

You can fiddle till your fiddle drops off, it won't, some amps are just better than others at amplifying.

Ok I get ur piont.. But at the same time if u dnt have good enough speakers to show what the amp is doin, then that would be a problem as well. It all boils dwn to matching... Sometimes a lean & bright sounding amp can make a boomy & dull speaker just sound right.

 

[Native_bon]

I wasn't talking about crossover distortion, nor dismiss valves. Read the article.

I missed it because it wasn't in blue. :doh:

Interesting.

Yeah, that seems to happen most (tho not all) times I post with my phone, annoying.

As it's such an informative piece...

http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/pseudo/subjectv.htm

Good link Ben, suprisingly all of that site was allowed in my ad-blocker, I must have visited it before.

Well the write up just proves what i have been saying on this forum for a very long time. Expectations of an expensive Hifi system, brings with it expectations of high performance. But I know this is not always the case. Well engineered Hifi products sometimes out perform more expensive ones. Anyway I hope people start using thier own ears for once.

If i get the right acoustics & match the right system together costing under 2grand I could well out perform a system costing 6grand or more.If am really honest expensive stuff not needed nowadays.. I think the area were it may still count most is the speakers. Buy the best speaker u can afford. Of cousre also considering room acoustics.

So do all amps sound the same?.. No not really...

To some its just a hobby. Boys & thier toys.

 

[CnoEvil]

All Texel sheep look and sound the same to me.....and so do Bottle Nosed Dolphins!

 

[SteveR750]

There's also another baked beans study where people consistently preferred the beans that came out of a Heinz tin instead of a value tin, even where they were the same or had in fact been swapped. Also the wine test where experts described the red wine taste of white wine that had been coloured red.

Good example, since it was effectively a blind ABX test that persuaded many of the worlds wine "experts" that Aussie wine was as good as anything else out there. Whether, with hindsight, this was a good or bad thing of of course debatable! It's well known that we subconciously fill in gaps from our sensory receptors, so the brain is continuously error correcting reality.

 

[Clare Newsome]

It's well known that we subconciously fill in gaps from our sensory receptors, so the brain is continuously error correcting reality.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Trawling through the net while the aspirin kicked in - that's Christmas for you in the UK, no sun, touch rugby, surf etc, only too much food and liquor - found this interesting thread: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130821&page=3 . Haven't quite got the old head around it, but it seems it's the characteristics of the speakers that make an amp sound different.

 

[steve_1979]

So, I've finally got around to comparing a few amplifiers this afternoon. :dance:

I used my own Neutron speakers because I've been reliably informed that they have a straightforward impedance load. Unfortunately it was all a bit rushed and the comparisons weren't done using good scientific method so don't read too much into my findings because they may not be accurate.

All of the comparisons were sighted and had a delay between them because I didn't have an A/B switch box. There also wasn't any equipment to check if the amps were level matched, weren't clipping or had any other form of additional tweaking to achieve an individual sound (such as could be caused by harmonic distortion).

First of all - Yes I could hear a difference between some of the amplifiers. :cheer:

However any easily noticable differences between the amplifiers were only apparent at high(ish) volumes. When listened to low volume levels where I'd assume that they weren't clipping any differences between them were almost impossible to hear. I listened to a couple of solid state amps, AV recievers and a valve amp and it was harder to tell a difference between them than I expected (although it might have been possible to pick out the valve amplifier against the solid state amps).

So, the bottom line is that I'm not willing to put my money where my mouth is and a have a go at passing the Harbeth challenge. I'm not saying that it's impossibe to do but after this brief experiment I'm certainly not confident that I could pass an ABX test when the amplifiers are level matched and not clipping. It'd also be nessessary to contact Harbeth first to check if there are any limits on the choice of amplifiers that can be used. For example, would amplifiers with excessive harmonic distortion be valid for the Challenge?

It's not much of a conclusion I'm afraid but there you go, those were my findings.

 

[CnoEvil]

So, I've finally got around to comparing a few amplifiers this afternoon. :dance:

What were the amps?

 

[expat]

Trust me there is a huge difference end of

 

[Native_bon]

Trawling through the net while the aspirin kicked in - that's Christmas for you in the UK, no sun, touch rugby, surf etc, only too much food and liquor - found this interesting thread: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130821&page=3 . Haven't quite got the old head around it, but it seems it's the characteristics of the speakers that make an amp sound different.

Brings us back to the piont of expensive does not always mean better sounding. So many factors will contribute to a system sounding pleasing to anyone... Also proves the fact of active speakers which are made to interact with amp & speaker all in one.!!

Edit : Also proves my piont that nowadays there is not much difference between Av amps & 2 channel amps. Yes there is a difference but no by much. You will be hard pushed to notice the difference.

Usually when u go to audition an expensive amp expensive speakers are used. When Av amps are auditioned cheap to mid priced speakers are used. The only amp i would say i noticed much difference is the Electrocompaniet amp range. But am yet to compare it directly with others yet.. It may just be the speaker used.

 

[steve_1979]

So, I've finally got around to comparing a few amplifiers this afternoon. :dance:

What were the amps?

There was a Yamaha and a Sony AV receiver. An Arcam, a NAD and a Marantz solid state amplifiers. There was also a Fatman tube amp.

They were all second hand and cheapish but they all seemed to be quite new and in good condition. I'm not sure what models they were though, it was all done in a bit of a rush and I just had a quick listen to whatever they had there at the time.

 

[Overdose]

Trust me there is a huge difference end of

So there we have it genetlemen. Conclusive proof........