Should I?

[JoelSim]

Hi Stu, thanks for the kind words. I'm sure that a decent TT will sound pretty good as the system does seem to be full of synergies thus far. I do really fancy one but need to work out whether spending £1,000 which is what it will be, would be better spent elsewhere or not at all. I imagine I will get bitten by the bug and go bananas as that's just what I do.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I have a technics 1210. It sounds ok but would I part with it. Not a chance!

Yes, I have bought new records and yes, I have left them out and yes, they got a bit dusty. I don't treat the records with the respect they deserve but, given the choice between a cd or some vinyl, I will still take the vinyl!

Cds sound great but it doesn't wrap you in a warm fluffy blanket like vinyl does!

Just my two cents.

PS, And then there are charity shops. If you buy a deck, charity shops become an addiction.ÿ

 

[matthewpiano]

Ashley James:I'd rather pass Razor Blades than own a turntable!

Let's face it, it's old and inconvenient technology and only worth bothering with if you collect or own music not available digitally. IMO a P2P MP3 sounds much better.

Ash

This is the biggest load of tosh I've heard for a long time. MP3 better than vinyl???? I'd 'rather pass razor blades' than listen to a diet of MP3s.

Vinyl might be old technology but it is certainly well worth bothering with for one reason: the absolutely incredible, musical sound it is capable of. It only takes a bit of intelligence to learn the basics of turntable set-up and there is a huge amount of cheap music available on the format.

I'm not knocking the use of servers and computer based technology as I believe it can work very well and has plenty to offer if using losless formats. Furthermore I haven't heard the ADM9s but I am sure they are a very fine product for a certain market. What I cannot stand is the constant, needless and groundless bashing of anything other than computer based solutions.

 

[Anonymous]

If our boy ash were right, and the new truly did always pave over the old then we'd all be reading kindles. There'd be no print magazines or books. New formats never destroy old ones, may minimalize them, but they persist all the same.

And as for mp3 sounding better, he must have the keen listening ear of a glass of irn-bru. May as well just listen to ring tones on his mobile and declare HiFi dead. All hail the ringtone!!

Seriously though, the Pro-Ject Phono Box has superb performance (don't let the price fool you) and it fits underneath nearly any table on the market, if small is what you need then it's a keen option. As for the tables, what do VPI Scouts go for over there? In North America it absolutely massacres everything in its price range. If you get a fair price over there then I'd punt for that and you'll never have to buy a new table.

As for tt's being difficult to set up...... Rot. They're easy! I've set up Scouts and Scoutmasters all over the place and it takes me 35 minutes to dial them in. And that's a table with a Rockwell Point balanced arm (the most difficult to calibrate) and a torsional anti-skate. I can do a conventional table to spec in about 10 minutes, takes another ten again to fine tune it to user's preference. Some people like to think vta needs to be adjusted for thicker records, it's not really true. But if you feel that way then just make sure you buy a table with on-the-fly vta adjustment. People obsess and obsess over it, tweaking here and there every night but that's just OCD. Set-up is easy-peasy.

Keeping records clean is easy too, all it entails is keeping them in their jackets. Run a carbon fibre brush over them before you play and robert's your mother's brother.

 

[matthewpiano]

Oh, in relation to the decks recommended I would counsel caution with the Michell TecnoDec. I had one for about a year but recently sold it because I found the sound didn't give me the warmth I want from a turntable. Beautifully engineered but I've found my 40 year old Thorens is a far more musical animal.

If you want to buy new I'd take a Rega P3-24 over a TecnoDec. Partnered with the right cartridge and phono stage the Rega will be very very hard to beat in the sub-£1,000 range.

I've not heard the Roksan so can't comment. Looks nice though!

 

[the record spot]

Ashley James is welcome to his opinion and if he sends me his address, I'll pop some sticking plasters in the post. Other than that, I see he has an expensive product to sell that needs iTunes to run at its best apparently. Moving swiftly on...

Buying a turntable doesn't really have to be so much hassle. A Rega P3 or Audio Note TT1 (modern day Systemdek) coupled with a decent cartridge will have your system singing. It doesn't need Roy Gandy (Rega head honcho) on hand to set one up and dealers will often pop a cartridge on and do all the fussy work in less than an hour often free when you're buying, so you don't even need to do that.

The truly great thing about a turntable, the nostalgia aspect one side, is the sheer tweakability of the thing that doesn't involve a degree in engineering to get into for the user. Change the sound a bit? Try another cartridge. Got a felt mat? Replace it with something from Ringmat Developments or Funk's Achromat.

I've had a P3 for going on 8 years now and it's a superb deck; the successor in the P3-24 is even better. Try with any number of cartridges and find the sound you want. Open, airy and bassy that tracks like a winner? The AT440MLa is the one to go for. Rich tonal quality with good detail but less forward? Goldring's 1000 series range. Moving Coil? Dynavector 10x5 - brilliant with the P3. Three cartridges of many from £90 to £250 that'll leave digital looking a bit sad.

In addition, you don't really need to spend a fortune on new vinyl - there's a stack of good quality used albums out there in secondhand shops, charity shops, etc, etc. I've picked up tons on Ebay alone. Billy Joel half-speed mastered "The Stranger"? £4.99. Once upon a time, this went for about five times that. It sounds sublime. Equally, I picked up a Thomas Dolby album for about 50p - perfect nick. Two of hundreds of examples.

You're in North London right? Sister Ray in Berwick Street has a good range of vinyl, Record & Tape Exchange at Notting Hill has three floors of vinyl - the ground floor is the usual stuff, upstairs the rare vinyl but the bargain bin basement is the place to go. LPs and CDs at giveaway money. Yes, they have a bloody annoying habit of putting price stickers on that don't come off easily, but at £1 or 50p a throw for an LP you want to try out, who's arguing? Down the Portobello Road there are some good shops but Rough Trade is worth a visit about halfway down. Fopp in Covent Garden sells some vinyl from time to time (or did when I stayed down there). Oxfam music is on the shortlist as well.

Ashely's a fine example of what is so wrong about the musical experience today; offering only part of the whole deal. What he can't deliver is the emotion that goes with the tangible. AVI 9.1 and iTunes might be something else, but isn't it all just as much hassle as setting up a turntable...? Coltrane on Impulse vinyl, a beer in hand and just sit back and take it in.

What you get with an LP is a bloody high standard of music and the naysayers are kidding themselves if they say otherwise. Vinyl is easy to look after, doesn't require excessive cleaning and lasts for years.

You get the whole experience with the ritual of going through the collection, picking your album out, or even just enjoying browsing different sleeves whilst listening. It's the very essence of what listening to music is all about - you can connect with the medium in a way that the sterility of the downloaded album effectively robs from you.

 

[JoelSim]

Downloaded music is just music for the throwaway generation. And to be honest most music 'created' for the charts is throwaway too. Simon Cowell et al have much to answer for.

ÿ

 

[matthewpiano]

JoelSim:
Downloaded music is just music for the throwaway generation. And to be honest most music 'created' for the charts is throwaway too. Simon Cowell et al have much to answer for.

ÿ

Couldn't agree more!

 

[JoelSim]

Ashley is a fine example of an intelligent guy who hasn't yet perfected his sales patter. I really like some AVI products, but his tunnel vision and arrogance puts me right off.

ÿ

 

[John Duncan]

JoelSim:
Downloaded music is just music for the throwaway generation. And to be honest most music 'created' for the charts is throwaway too. Simon Cowell et al have much to answer for.

ÿ

Disagree - ironically, downloadable music makes creative integrity more likely, rather than less.

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:JoelSim:
Downloaded music is just music for the throwaway generation. And to be honest most music 'created' for the charts is throwaway too. Simon Cowell et al have much to answer for.

ÿ

Disagree - ironically, downloadable music makes creative integrity more likely, rather than less.

Cowel is a good producer...most of the time...

 

[John Duncan]

Hughes123:JohnDuncan:JoelSim:
Downloaded music is just music for the throwaway generation. And to be honest most music 'created' for the charts is throwaway too. Simon Cowell et al have much to answer for.

ÿ

Disagree - ironically, downloadable music makes creative integrity more likely, rather than less.

Cowel is a good producer...most of the time...

Not my point - you don't need a record company any more, so you can make whatever music you like.......

 

[JoelSim]

Cowell thinks he knows what good music is, and unfortunately the great unwashed seem to think so too. And I should know as I gather I look just like him from Thaiman and Craig. Grrrrr.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with JD here, radiohead's proved that much with their adios to EMI. Not only did they operate outside of the record studios, but they made considerably more money off just one album than what EMI offered for a three album deal.

Most any indie producer or musician out there who is thinking of self-publishing via the web will tell you as soon as capital permits they'll release a vinyl lp. It's just what Matthew said, the tangibility and emotion that truly connects the creator to the appreciator cannot exist without a physical medium. After all... Without a liner, and a disc, we're all one massive electromagnetic burst away from silence!

Also, used vinyl is excellent if you take the time to check the disc before buying. I've got mint condition copies of the whole Beatles discography on used wax, Coltrane and Davis' best works, etc. etc. The only vinyl I buy new is new music.

 

[JoelSim]

I never disagree with JD, he's a wise man and a knowledgable one too. I even agreed with him when he said he'd rather have Arcam kit than Primare. Tsssk.ÿ

I hear you all on this, that wasn't what I was getting at. I was on about the vast majority not always being in the right, hence the 'satisfied' with iPod nonsense and the 'throwaway' downloads culture that seems to be pre-eminent in today's market. Oh and the shocking chart music with girl/boy bands singing in falsetto and all sounding the same (sans talent). Leona is the exception rather than the rule.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:
I never disagree with JD, he's a wise man and a knowledgable one too.

ÿ
Don't forget handsome.

 

[Anonymous]

Personally I think getting into vinyl now would be a bit of a waste of time, I've always purchased vinyl so have quite a large collection but I couldn't imagine buying a TT and starting a collection from scratch in this time. Vinyl is going to be dead within a few years, admittedly there's a massive back collection of stuff you can purchase but for what you're going to have to pay on the initial outlay it just doesn't seem worth it. Sound quality is generally better (but not always) but if it's going to cost you £1k I'm sure improvements could be made elsewhere in your system that could give equal if not better results. Saying that I've just ordered an Origin Live modded tonearm for my Technics 1210 but I'm pretty sure if I didn't already have a TT and 2000+ records I wouldn't be condidering vinyl now.

 

[The_Lhc]

JoelSim:
Cowell thinks he knows what good music is, and unfortunately the great unwashed seem to think so too.

I think it's the other way around to be honest. Cowell knows exactly what the "great unwashed" like to listen to (or think they do) and he gives them what they want. As for knowing what good music is, I'd be very interested to know what Cowell listens to in private, if anything, I'll bet it's not any of his own artists.

I'd imagine he's more a home cinema person myself...

 

[The_Lhc]

raypalmer:I'm with JD here, radiohead's proved that much with their adios to EMI. Not only did they operate outside of the record studios, but they made considerably more money off just one album than what EMI offered for a three album deal.

I thought they announced fairly quickly that they probably wouldn't be doing that kind of promotion again, because it wasn't entirely successful?

 

[The_Lhc]

monsieur:Personally I think getting into vinyl now would be a bit of a waste of time, I've always purchased vinyl so have quite a large collection but I couldn't imagine buying a TT and starting a collection from scratch in this time. Vinyl is going to be dead within a few years,

where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, 1984! There's more bands releasing on vinyl now than there has been for a long time. I've recently "discovered" Rooster Records in Exeter and the amount of new vinyl being released is quite surprising (well, it was to me!). A large number of them were also offering either mp3 downloads via voucher or, in some cases, a CD copy of the album, specifically so you can rip it to your PC or iPod.

Yeah they're a little more expensive, but I'm so picky about what I listen to that for me it's not going to make a vast amount of difference (I might buy half a dozen new albums a year, if I'm doing well...). Great shop incidentally, I found Medeski, Martin and Woods new childrens album on CD import (it's not been released over here) for ten quid, I couldn't have got it that cheap if I'd ordered it off the net!

 

[DistortedVision]

On what basis do you say that? Vinyl sales have been increasing for the past 3 years while CD sales have been falling. Major retailers such as Amazon have increased the range of records they stock.

monsieur:Personally I think getting into vinyl now would be a bit of a waste of time, I've always purchased vinyl so have quite a large collection but I couldn't imagine buying a TT and starting a collection from scratch in this time. Vinyl is going to be dead within a few years

 

[Anonymous]

On the basis that tons of independent record stores and distributors have closed down in recent years and based on the fact that vinyl uses oil for production with isn't very eco friendly and is also in relatively short supply.

Vinyl sales of 7" of major labels might be up but this is because labels use them as relatively cheap marketing tools, sales of vinyl for electronic music (which pretty much kept the vinyl industry going at a time when they were expecting it to die) are massively down, mainly due to electronic music being predominantly purchased by DJ and wanna-be DJs who are switching to digital mixing. CD sales are down becasue of people switching to mp3s not becasue they're switching to vinyl.

 

[chebby]

DistortedVision:
On what basis do you say that? Vinyl sales have been increasing for the past 3 years while CD sales have been falling. Major retailers such as Amazon have increased the range of records they stock.

monsieur:Personally I think getting into vinyl now would be a bit of a waste of time, I've always purchased vinyl so have quite a large collection but I couldn't imagine buying a TT and starting a collection from scratch in this time. Vinyl is going to be dead within a few years

I got back into vinyl a few months ago after a 5 year absence from it. I agree that Amazon UK is a great source of brand new vinyl. More and more titles are appearing there all the time. I get some superb used vinyl from ebay and from a local second-hand record shop. (They also have a Keith Monks cleaning service.)

I get all my used vinyl KM cleaned before first playing it and have a box of new anti-static sleeve liners to replace old/grubby ones for every purchase. Care is minimal. Brush the stylus now and then, always place record back in it's sleeve after playing and use a carbon fibre brush.

I took care to ensure my cartridge was aligned properly. A couple of hours alternating between Stevenson and Baerwald alignments to decide what I preferred and that was it. (Most of that time was listening.) If I had not wanted to experiment then fitting/alignment would take about 15 minutes tops. A dealer would do it in 5.

Dust and dirt are not issues unless you make them so with neglectful habits but the same is true of CDs also. (Neglect your lossless computer hosted music - like never doing regular backups for instance - and see what may happen eventually!)

 

[Anonymous]

I should also point out that vinyl can be made inexpensively from a variety of raw materials.

 

[DistortedVision]

Actually LP sales have increased over the last 3 years and the number of pressing plants is now starting to increase.

monsieur:On the basis that tons of independent record stores and distributors have closed down in recent years and based on the fact that vinyl uses oil for production with isn't very eco friendly and is also in relatively short supply.

Vinyl sales of 7" of major labels might be up but this is because labels use them as relatively cheap marketing tools, sales of vinyl for electronic music (which pretty much kept the vinyl industry going at a time when they were expecting it to die) are massively down, mainly due to electronic music being predominantly purchased by DJ and wanna-be DJs who are switching to digital mixing. CD sales are down becasue of people switching to mp3s not becasue they're switching to vinyl.