September - the big question
- Thread starter PJPro
- Start date
John Duncan
Well-known member
How about this...
Sweet my subscribed issue only cost £1 and will do for the next 2 issues.....
1980's price ?
Sweet my subscribed issue only cost £1 and will do for the next 2 issues.....
1980's price ?
John Duncan
Well-known member
Call me opinionated if you wish...
3 people isn't exactly robust but it's a start for the pro-cable lobby, especially given personal findings
3 people isn't exactly robust but it's a start for the pro-cable lobby, especially given personal findings
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
Andy Clough:
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
The results are more or less what I found when I did my own "scientific" test:
Cable test
By the way and just to be pedantic - the layout of the Big Question feature(s) is terrible
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
The results are more or less what I found when I did my own "scientific" test:
Cable test
By the way and just to be pedantic - the layout of the Big Question feature(s) is terrible
Andy Clough:
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
Not insulted in the Slightest 3 people is not a huge group statistically, I am confident in what I heard and stand by the comments the decision was unanimous so statistically that is 100%.
I Was so surprised by some of the results I have spent the last month looking at mains conditioning/leads (I ordered a Tacima 6 way as soon as I got home), and playing with my Interconnects (Have borrowed some from a friend for review) I Live in a village less than 100 yards from the transformer so have decent Mains anyway and had reasonable but not necessarily good interconnects I have a pretty decent system, but have made some gains already.
The only thing I am disappointed about is I have to wait a couple more days to read the article.
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
Not insulted in the Slightest 3 people is not a huge group statistically, I am confident in what I heard and stand by the comments the decision was unanimous so statistically that is 100%.
I Was so surprised by some of the results I have spent the last month looking at mains conditioning/leads (I ordered a Tacima 6 way as soon as I got home), and playing with my Interconnects (Have borrowed some from a friend for review) I Live in a village less than 100 yards from the transformer so have decent Mains anyway and had reasonable but not necessarily good interconnects I have a pretty decent system, but have made some gains already.
The only thing I am disappointed about is I have to wait a couple more days to read the article.
Oh Joy - I had it in my head the Mag was out on the 30th, went to the shop at work just in case and it was there already, I bought every copy on the shelf
.
Ravey Gravey Davy
Well-known member
Ravey Gravey Davy:pwiles1968:
, I bought every copy on the shelf
.
Is that why they invite non subscribers?.
I did not specify how many were on the shelf
.
, I bought every copy on the shelf
Is that why they invite non subscribers?.
I did not specify how many were on the shelf
Andy Clough:
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
No insult intended. Nor am I questioning the validity of their opinions. I'm merely stating that the sample size was very small.
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
No insult intended. Nor am I questioning the validity of their opinions. I'm merely stating that the sample size was very small.
Alec
Well-known member
PJPro:Andy Clough:
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
No insult intended. Nor am I questioning the validity of their opinions. I'm merely stating that the sample size was very small.
Indeed, statistically insignificant. And you were quite correct. No ears or subjective opinion needed there, its a fact.
EDIT but my biggest complaint about the mag this month is that there is no "The" before, er, the "Reckoning" in the title of the R.E.M. album Reckoning.
PJPro:You know, three people are not considered a valid statistical population....
Are you suggesting their opinions aren't valid? They might find that quite insulting...
No insult intended. Nor am I questioning the validity of their opinions. I'm merely stating that the sample size was very small.
Indeed, statistically insignificant. And you were quite correct. No ears or subjective opinion needed there, its a fact.
EDIT but my biggest complaint about the mag this month is that there is no "The" before, er, the "Reckoning" in the title of the R.E.M. album Reckoning.
In response to the 3 test people finding cables make a difference.........
"Quote from the Big Question : We can hear the pins being drawn from philosophical hand grenades on the Whathifi.com forums already"
Im not going to get involved in these pointless arguements about cables ( as in my opinion they make a massive difference) No hand grenades please
But may I ask What Hifi about the Chord Carnival Silver Screen Speaker cable - with the likes of your system you had, wouldnt something like the Chord Epic be more suitable or anything slightly higher end?
Im not having a go at the Chord Carnival Speaker cable just expressing an opinion on all the above comments I've made here.
"Quote from the Big Question : We can hear the pins being drawn from philosophical hand grenades on the Whathifi.com forums already"
Im not going to get involved in these pointless arguements about cables ( as in my opinion they make a massive difference) No hand grenades please
But may I ask What Hifi about the Chord Carnival Silver Screen Speaker cable - with the likes of your system you had, wouldnt something like the Chord Epic be more suitable or anything slightly higher end?
Im not having a go at the Chord Carnival Speaker cable just expressing an opinion on all the above comments I've made here.
Point taken, but then if the differences were obvious via SilverScreen, they would have been even more so via Epic
visionary
Well-known member
I was a bit disappointed with the article. I accept the views of the panellists but am concerned that the methodology is suspect.
If I listen to an unfamiliar recording.... and then go back and listen to it again without changing anything I will notice details that I hadn't heard first time around in the same way that one does with film/books etc. As the piece becomes more familiar then my EARS will extract more detail from the piece.
I don't think the article makes enough of what happened when you re-listened to the earlier "systems" and how they then sounded with recordings that had become more familiar. Similarly, for example, to leave in the new signal and speaker cables and then take away the exotic mains cables to see what difference it made - like you re-introduced certain components during the system matching article.
It may be that you did all that but had too little space to report it fully. Given how much forum space is devoted to this topic, another couple of pages would have been justified in my view.
If I listen to an unfamiliar recording.... and then go back and listen to it again without changing anything I will notice details that I hadn't heard first time around in the same way that one does with film/books etc. As the piece becomes more familiar then my EARS will extract more detail from the piece.
I don't think the article makes enough of what happened when you re-listened to the earlier "systems" and how they then sounded with recordings that had become more familiar. Similarly, for example, to leave in the new signal and speaker cables and then take away the exotic mains cables to see what difference it made - like you re-introduced certain components during the system matching article.
It may be that you did all that but had too little space to report it fully. Given how much forum space is devoted to this topic, another couple of pages would have been justified in my view.
Vinny7:Do we know yet what is next months Big Question?
Yes, thanks - and it's a lulu, a cracker and a doozy!
Details on the next month page of the current issue, and only three weeks to wait...
Yes, thanks - and it's a lulu, a cracker and a doozy!
Details on the next month page of the current issue, and only three weeks to wait...
rob_981
Well-known member
I am really looking forward to reading this! Still waiting for my copy to arrive though (it's a long way to Glasgow), so the surprise has been ruined a bit. Perhaps I should just buy one off the shelf.
visionary:
I was a bit disappointed with the article. I accept the views of the panellists but am concerned that the methodology is suspect.
If I listen to an unfamiliar recording.... and then go back and listen to it again without changing anything I will notice details that I hadn't heard first time around in the same way that one does with film/books etc. As the piece becomes more familiar then my EARS will extract more detail from the piece.
I don't think the article makes enough of what happened when you re-listened to the earlier "systems" and how they then sounded with recordings that had become more familiar. Similarly, for example, to leave in the new signal and speaker cables and then take away the exotic mains cables to see what difference it made - like you re-introduced certain components during the system matching article.
It may be that you did all that but had too little space to report it fully. Given how much forum space is devoted to this topic, another couple of pages would have been justified in my view.
For your information and doing this all from memory, we listened to systems 1, 2 , 3 then 4, we were pretty familiar with the tracks by this point (I have since purchased the Bonny Prince Billy Album it is excellent) we then listened to system 2 again followed by 4 then back down to 3, System Four was definitely Best.
Even after the reveal we did a couple of things in reverse order Speaker cables but no mains and the such like, working up and doing mains last I think, even given that we knew what was being changed by this time I felt we were still in complete agreement on the gains to be had by upgrading the standard cables that come with a system. I was shocked that the kit used (Around 3k worth by my reckoning) sounded quite so bad with all the stock cables.
I was so convinced about the mains as stated in one of the previous threads here I ordered a 6 way conditioner as soon as I got home.
I was a bit disappointed with the article. I accept the views of the panellists but am concerned that the methodology is suspect.
If I listen to an unfamiliar recording.... and then go back and listen to it again without changing anything I will notice details that I hadn't heard first time around in the same way that one does with film/books etc. As the piece becomes more familiar then my EARS will extract more detail from the piece.
I don't think the article makes enough of what happened when you re-listened to the earlier "systems" and how they then sounded with recordings that had become more familiar. Similarly, for example, to leave in the new signal and speaker cables and then take away the exotic mains cables to see what difference it made - like you re-introduced certain components during the system matching article.
It may be that you did all that but had too little space to report it fully. Given how much forum space is devoted to this topic, another couple of pages would have been justified in my view.
For your information and doing this all from memory, we listened to systems 1, 2 , 3 then 4, we were pretty familiar with the tracks by this point (I have since purchased the Bonny Prince Billy Album it is excellent) we then listened to system 2 again followed by 4 then back down to 3, System Four was definitely Best.
Even after the reveal we did a couple of things in reverse order Speaker cables but no mains and the such like, working up and doing mains last I think, even given that we knew what was being changed by this time I felt we were still in complete agreement on the gains to be had by upgrading the standard cables that come with a system. I was shocked that the kit used (Around 3k worth by my reckoning) sounded quite so bad with all the stock cables.
I was so convinced about the mains as stated in one of the previous threads here I ordered a 6 way conditioner as soon as I got home.
Alec
Well-known member
You did all that and still agreed that mains conditioners made more difference than speaker cables?
I have to, at that point, echo what someone said earlier then - maybe "better" speaker cable should have been used...
Personally it doesnt matter to me, but that speaker cables make the biggest difference is certainly the majority view, and itll take a lot to convert most, i rekon.
I have to, at that point, echo what someone said earlier then - maybe "better" speaker cable should have been used...
Personally it doesnt matter to me, but that speaker cables make the biggest difference is certainly the majority view, and itll take a lot to convert most, i rekon.
It may have been that the first thing to be added to the system made the biggest difference and that as the system gets better further additions make incrementally less difference (Unfortunate fact of hi-fi upgrading), in the order we did things the biggest differences came early on and for me speaker cable was a smaller difference, it was more subtle (had I listened for longer in familiar surroundings with material I knew I would have been able to pull more differences out), if you asked me to guess the result before we began I would have guessed pretty much in reverse.
I think the Important aspect to concentrate on here is that the changes from bogo bits Did make a difference, what further gains that can be made spending even more money is possibly the subject of another Big Question.
I think the Important aspect to concentrate on here is that the changes from bogo bits Did make a difference, what further gains that can be made spending even more money is possibly the subject of another Big Question.
al7478:
You did all that and still agreed that mains conditioners made more difference than speaker cables?
I have to, at that point, echo what someone said earlier then - maybe "better" speaker cable should have been used...
Personally it doesnt matter to me, but that speaker cables make the biggest difference is certainly the majority view, and itll take a lot to convert most, i rekon.
I got a bigger gain by putting a single Nordost Shiva on my CDP replacing a Merlin Black Widow which went on the integrated amp instead of a Merlin Tarantula that was then sold, then I did upgrading my QED SA XT to Chord Odyssey.
So much so that I then purchased 2 Clearer Audio Silverlines for my amps with upgraded plugs.
You did all that and still agreed that mains conditioners made more difference than speaker cables?
I have to, at that point, echo what someone said earlier then - maybe "better" speaker cable should have been used...
Personally it doesnt matter to me, but that speaker cables make the biggest difference is certainly the majority view, and itll take a lot to convert most, i rekon.
I got a bigger gain by putting a single Nordost Shiva on my CDP replacing a Merlin Black Widow which went on the integrated amp instead of a Merlin Tarantula that was then sold, then I did upgrading my QED SA XT to Chord Odyssey.
So much so that I then purchased 2 Clearer Audio Silverlines for my amps with upgraded plugs.
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