Rolling, Rolling, Rolling, Rawhide!!!

[CJSF]

. . . ahm . . . whoops, sorry, got carried away . . what I was thinking of was 'rolling valves'. Thinking about all the posters on here who are trying to change their hifi sound with new amps, speakers, then cables . . . often with expensive and mixed success?

How about moving on to some real amplification . . . proper amplifiers, modern valve amps are the bees knees . . . then you can not only change your interconects but the valve quality and manufacturer as well, its called 'valve rolling'. There are companys out there dedicated to supplying, valves, dozens of different makes at all sorts of prices, offereing all kinds of sound, tweakers heaven . . .

I'm waiting for a matched set of 4 to arive, 'KT88 Gold Lion's', a re-issue of a vintage valve with a reputation to die for, at a fair price compared with cable prices per meter!!!

CJSF

 

[chebby]

A bit of history you might enjoy...

http://blip.tv/uxstars/blackburn-mullard-tube-reel-1266769

(about 32 minutes long)

 

[Overdose]

If you want to change how your setup sounds, how about using the tone controls or an EQ?

Easier, quicker, cheaper and can be changed on the fly.

 

[stephennic]

Hi,

I did some tube rolling with 6cg7 in a preamp and I was amazed at the sonic results.

Cheers

Steve.

 

[CJSF]

If you want to change how your setup sounds, how about using the tone controls or an EQ?

Easier, quicker, cheaper and can be changed on the fly.

Valve rolling in not about changing the sound, its more detail, better control, better soundstage . . . just for startes 8)

Cant do any changes on the fly with my Icon valve amp, it weighs 25kg!!!!

 

[CJSF]

Here you go, as I was typing the thread they arived, amazing service, I did not order them untill 4pm yesterday. They are now installed and the initial biasing has been done, amp is warming up, its going to be fun over the next few days as they burn in.

:cheer: . . . to me, a work of visual and hifi art, part of my nostalgia and history, Gold Lion KT88, premium quality, hand tested:

 

[hoopsontoast]

IME I found more changes in the small signal tubes than the power tubes of the amplifier when tube rolling, minus changing the tube type (El34 to KT88 to KT120 for example)

 

[BigH]

Maybe you should get rid of the passive crossovers.

 

[Diamond Joe]

A bit of history you might enjoy...

http://blip.tv/uxstars/blackburn-mullard-tube-reel-1266769

(about 32 minutes long)

Does it explain why it's called rolling? Can't fathom why it's called that.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Maybe you should get rid of the passive crossovers.

Not sure who that is directed at, not really constructive towards the subject of tube rolling......

 

[Clarkey_71]

I'm having this same quandry myself at the moment.

I'm currently having the pot replaced on my AR SP9. I can't remember the last time I changed the valves and I have no idea what is actually in there. I'm a listener rather than a tweaker!

I thought I'd upgrade the valves. Simple I thought. :wall:

I hadn't realised the whole valve thing could be so complicated!!!

There are whole web fourums dedicated to this stuff.

Oh. And they need to be balanced...............

Sovtek and Mullard seem to get good reviews, but they can be expensive.

I'm looking at 6DJ8 but the 6992 seem to have superceded them (that might sound like I know what that really means. I don't!).

The quest continues............ ray:

 

[BigH]

If they are matched do you have to replace all of them if one blows up?

 

[hoopsontoast]

As far as I am aware, the 6922, 6DJ8, E88CC, CV2482 are all the same style valve.

The ECC88 is a Mullard special version of the E88CC IIRC for example.

I used a couple of those in my Decware, the 6922 being the one I prefered if I remember correctly.

Most of those, depending on age/condition and the brand can be had for around £15-£20/ea so its cheap to try some. Plenty of NOS and Vintage ones about.

 

[BigH]

Maybe you should get rid of the passive crossovers.

Not sure who that is directed at, not really constructive towards the subject of tube rolling......

Its directed at those who want more detail, better control, better soundstage

 

[hoopsontoast]

If they are matched do you have to replace all of them if one blows up?

I would have thought not as critical as one is in the phono stage, and one in the line stage.

Not that they would be at all likely to 'blow up' :roll:

 

[BigH]

If they are matched do you have to replace all of them if one blows up?

I would have thought not as critical as one is in the phono stage, and one in the line stage.

Not that they would be at all likely to 'blow up' :roll:

When I looked them up on google that seemed what to be all the comments were about, blowing up and they are only guaranteed for 3 months?

 

[CJSF]

I'm learning myself, its complicated and I belive is made more mestrious by the audiophile valve freaks than it realy need be, no diferent to cable and the followers of same?

I have gone for the Gold Lion, £36 ago, you can pay £100s for a matched pair, the advantages are a bit vague and may be more applicable to the out of reach amps one can only dream of.

I have gon down this route becaus of circustances, I bought the amp new in Jauary, all was well for a while, then things went pear shaped, sound stage colapsed, song muddied up, whats going on? Tracked it down to the number 4 valve, dead, heaters were on, the red glow you see when a valve is powered, but the workings were out. This was easily checked on the Icon amp, via the biasing meater, zero reading.

Valves should last for 4000/5000 hours, they tell me. Icon garantee their valves for 12 months as a consumable, you pay a percentage of the use, however, 6 weeks is a bit short and unlucky. Icon confirmed my diagnosis, my dealer has honoured my garentee. There is a replacement on its way, it appears maching is advisable but not critical with an amp that can be biased.

I need a spare valve? . . . discussed with Hazel, she has become a real hifi nut, "you get a full matched set of 4" she said. We discussed the pros and cons, I took some advise from a friend on line. One remembers the old days, back in the 70's and 80's, valves were much admired, rembering the Gold Lion KT88 as a stadard that all were match against.

So, my romantic memory took over, I looked at a few forum threads on line dedicated to the Gold Lion KT88's, much praise was heaped on the re-issued vintage valve. For better or for worse, I place the order, if nothing else, they were my spare set. The replacement Icon valve has not yet arived, the Gold Lions arrived mid morning . . . Nothing for it, in with both feet, change them over, retain the three good Icon valves. Switch on, initial bias, run for an hour, re bias.

They have been powerd up for 4 hours. Snatched an hour of music, not bad at all considering they are so new, the rest of the time I have had radio 4 on, catching up with the weeks Archers episodes, now listening to a facinating play, 'the silence at a songs end' the writing of Nicholas Heiney, have a listen to it on Wednesdays radio 4, 2.15pm iPlayer.

It is still early, but one is aware of the improved sound quality, much crisper mid range, treble is sweet and base is more detailed, black sound is blacker . . . yes, even this early, I recon the 'valve roll' is worth every penny, I will leve things running untill the Horlicks hour when we will be able to enjoy some music, looking forward to it . . . :cheers:

CJSF

 

[BigH]

So £36 each, is that from a UK dealer or from ebay? How many watts per channel do you get? Do they get very hot?

 

[CJSF]

So £36 each, is that from a UK dealer or from ebay? How many watts per channel do you get? Do they get very hot?

Yep BigH, 'Hot Rox UK' based in Nottigham, 40 watts per channel, 40 watts is certainly enought to drive my 87db efficient PMC LB1's to a very good volume at '12 o'clock' for my room size, normal istening 9 to 10 o'clock.

Heaters in valves, they are supposed to get a bit more than warm mate!!! If you are worried about little fingers, most valve amps come with an appropiate cover, . . . keeps the centeral heating bills down too

Been listening to some music for the past 2 hours, the sound is improving as I listen, extra image depth and ambience has become noticable, with more inner detail coming through. The sweetness I mentioned earlier is beginning to pervade the whole of the sound without the trecaly sound so often associated with valves, I will give the sweetness a description of 'musical flow'. Ambiance? . . . may be better described as an 'airy detailed presentation', most satifiying, more to come I think . . . ?

. . . More to come did I say, I'm listening to Karen Carpenter, not know for dynamic presentation? . . . well there are some leading edges there, particularly from the drum kit in 'Solitair' that are very sharp and dynamic!

CJSF

 

[BigH]

THanks, no not worried about little fingers but heat could be a problem at times. Yes 40W should be enough. There is a dealer not to far from me that does have Croft amps so I may give them a demo with some Harbeth speakers or would that be too sweet?

 

[alchemist 1]

Yee Haaa !!!!! Rowdy........

 

[lindsayt]

Following manufacturer's advice, I replaced the Electro Harmonix 300b's in my SET monoblocks with Shuguang Black Treasures for a nice but subtle upgrade to the sound.

 

[CJSF]

THanks, no not worried about little fingers but heat could be a problem at times. Yes 40W should be enough. There is a dealer not to far from me that does have Croft amps so I may give them a demo with some Harbeth speakers or would that be too sweet?

You been looking at my signature BigH? The WHFsite wont alow me to chang my sig., but I have posted that I now have moved on to an 'Icon Stereo 40 MKIII'. Nothing wrong with the Croft and it does not get so hot as the full valve Icon, it dont use KT88 either. Who is your dealer, not Radlett Audio by any chance? If so, he does Icon as well.

CJSF

 

[BenLaw]

So why is it called 'rolling'?

 

[CJSF]

So why is it called 'rolling'?

I have no idea BenLaw, I was told thats what it is called???

Dont realy matter, the Gold Lion KT88's are working for me. All the points I have highlighted have combined in the Horlicks hour in to a relaxing sound that can be listend to as 'a performance' at low volume level, a requirement of Horlicks hour.

CJSF