Flowing like Honey . . .

CJSF

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Icon ST40III and the PS1 Phono Stage back home, a long old drive to Leicester . . . never used to worry, I must be getting old.

Got in about 6 o'clock, powered up by 6.20 . . . needs to warm up . . . ??? nah, got to listen ain't I, but dont expect to much :? I put on 'the Well' by Jennifer Warnes, it was Spotify, Hazel and I sat there cuppa in hand spell bound, the dynamics were something else. So got a CD out, Pavarotti, Kennedy, Dance Macabre . . . Moved on to Vinyl, Jennifer Warnes, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, on the Proprius label; 'Flaglarna Och Kallorna' (Pipe organ in a Danish Church, I think?)

By the time we were at the Pipe organ, the sound had sweetened, flowing like honey, width, height, depth, detail, worth every penny of the cash I paid for the two amps to be upgraded. So, only 2 hours of listening, Dave Shaw suggested the caps will run in a bit.

I came away with some new valves, one especially is a bit special, no longer available, I had to twist his arm a bit to let me have one from his dwindling stock ;) rolling, rolling, rolling . . . again.

More perhaps, when I've tried the new valves and the caps have settle in . . . Anyone who has an Icon valve amp or is thinking about getting one look seriously at the Jensen Capacitor upgrade.

CJSF
 

stevebrock

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Don't tempt me - i just fancy a valve integrated to kick this Elciit into touch - I am without amp - check out my Rega Elicit thread grrrrrr
 

CJSF

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Talking to Dave this afternoon, looks like I got in just right, he is in the process of looking at restocking some items . . . world prices are going up, seems he will soon be revising some of his items?

The amps have been on all evening, they are really sounding rich, solid and smooth, roll on the weekend when I can give them some legs . . . :dance:

CJSF
 

chebby

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A few things I came across when trying to find out why these paper/copper in oil capacitors are supposed to sound better...

"Jensen oil caps are bargains in the group.

Very highly recommended. With a big caveat, however

First of all, Jensen has just about the worst measurement among a dozen or so caps that come with published specification. They do measure horrible, by modern standards, according to a couple manufacturers I knew of.

Well, since it’s the sound that matters, the bench result has no bearing here. The real problem is the reliability. According to Jensen website, these oil caps only have a measly 250 hour life at maximum temperature of 85°C. You may jump in with, “since the actual temperature inside a chassis is much lower than this, the life must be exponentially prolonged”. Such is not the experience for several manufacturers using Jensen. I’m withholding their names here because I don’t want them to be swamped with inquires about the Jensen reliability questions. If you are really interested in the horror experience of these poor manufacturers, just Google or a blog search at audioasylum.com and so on. Therefore, if you want to use Jensen, please make sure your chassis is cool inside, and inspect your Jensen visually at least quarterly, after one year. If you see deformation, discoloration, or oil creep, you should replace them."

So watch out for the amp if we have another heat-wave this summer :)

In response to a query about the expected lifetime of their capacitors Hans Jensen responded...

"The lifetime test has nothing to do with the actual life time of the capacitor. In many standards for electrical components you find type tests, which are accelerated life tests to show if the component has a certain expected life time. Then you measure electrical parameters before and after the test, and then the values must only change within a certain range.

Such a lifetime test indicates whether the component is OK or not.

The expected lifetime for our paper capacitors is minimum 5 years for aluminium foil capacitors, and 10 - 15 years is very common. For copper foil and silver foil it can be shorter (5 - 8 years) due to the properties of the metals.

Best regards

Hans J. Jensen"
 

namefail

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Mr C to the F, you read this http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

Its a capacitor shootout report I found when googling bit of the text above.
 

floyd droid

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Erm , what exactly was your point in that post Chebby ?. Regarding the caps , well all that in your post is well known to most. Due to the fact CJ is very methodical in how he goes about things , you can bet your bottom dollar he knew what he was getting into or did some research first. I can only assume you are being a scaremongering little tinker :p . When they do go up the chute ,its not as if they are going to break the bank cost wise.

Edit. It appears CJ was unawares , but even so.
 

CJSF

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Mmm . . . If this was the case one would have expected 'short capacitor life' to have revealed its self by now? It would be all over the internet . . . so one pays ones money and enjoys the music. Seems to me, from what I read on here, hifi products reliabuility in general is poor, a few months and the 'what do I do now type posts' start to appear?

Scaremongering me thinks? . . . I'll tell you in a few months, One would not expect some valves to last any longer than a few short years, 1500 hours use, then according to pocket and/or tast, its all change for between £100 to £300. I've said it before, to enjoy valves, you need to be 'hands on' and be aware of the peculiarities :dance:

Chebby can you supply the link to the bit you posted, thank you.

CJSF
 

CJSF

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floyd droid said:
Edit. It appears CJ was unawares , but even so.

Hi Floyd,
I had come across the oil seepage thing a long time ago etc. I believe this is a problem with some of the old classic amps people rebuild caps are always shot?

I'm not worried, I now know which caps to change and room has been made in the circuit/chassis, I'm handy enough with the soldering iron, after that time its probably worth getting things checked our properly anyway, making sure all is working at the top of its game?

Had a fiddle with the new 'first stage valves' and the new 'rectifier valve' juggling the combinations is going to be interesting, it seems one can create a classic valve sound, warm and laid back or a more modern sound still on the warm side of neutral but very dynamic. The classic sound still has dynamics . . . to early to be more specific that that.

CJSF
 

chebby

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floyd droid said:
When they do go up the chute ,its not as if they are going to break the bank cost wise.

Maybe not to people like you and CJ, but a £600 capacitor upgrade would be a pretty big deal in my world. (Not my figure, it's what CJ said it cost him in another thread.)

Audio-Note (on their capacitors webpage) have a whole section on how they have changed all their copper foil caps from paper in oil to mylar in oil because of reliability issues with the former. (They are replacing all the previously purchased PIO capacitors free of charge so I guess it's quite a serious matter to them.)

http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cap_paper.shtml

It's interesting that in the parallel world of classic / vintage electric guitars there is a whole 'paper in oil' capacitor thing going on too. The same claims for the changes in sound quality. The longevity of their capacitors is not an issue it seems because they are in low voltage circuits. Lots of original 1950s and 60s era capacitors working ok apparently.
 

CJSF

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chebby said:
Maybe not to people like you and CJ, but a £600 capacitor upgrade would be a pretty big deal in my world. (Not my figure, it's what CJ said it cost him in another thread.)

Not quite as simple as that Chebby, the figure is including fitting, it also includes Icons premium price for the capacitor itself and the figure is for two amps.

I recon that now I know 'what and how', I can replace them for a fraction of the cost, I can also conduct my own A v B tweak tests, gives me something to play with . . . in a few years time?

CJSF
 

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