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Ripp-off Hifi

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Al ears

Moderator
chrisr1718 said:
james_LR90 said:
Never again will I buy HiFi from a rip off manufacturer.
This is why I won't buy NVA...

NVA AMPLIFIERS AND SPEAKER CABLES – WARRANTY

Only NVA LS1, LS2, LS3, LS5, LS6 and LS7 is recommended for use with this amplifier, other cables will invalidate the warranty.

Now that's a rip off!
Who says cables don't make a difference?

To be honest it would only be a rip off if those cables cost excessively more than the ones I currently own.
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
151
87
18,670
Al ears said:
chrisr1718 said:
james_LR90 said:
Never again will I buy HiFi from a rip off manufacturer.
This is why I won't buy NVA...

NVA AMPLIFIERS AND SPEAKER CABLES – WARRANTY

Only NVA LS1, LS2, LS3, LS5, LS6 and LS7 is recommended for use with this amplifier, other cables will invalidate the warranty.

Now that's a rip off!
Who says cables don't make a difference?

To be honest it would only be a rip off if those cables cost excessively more than the ones I currently own.
Hi,

Not sure if you are being serious.

Surely any amplifier that is stated to have its warranty invalidated by using a bit of wire NOT purchased from NVA is a scam.

For the picture provided by another, sure, the amplifier looks a bit unordered, but then, if the circuit functions, is safe, and meets local regulations, should be ok.

Reminds me of valve amplifiers, where there is minimal circuit boards and the wiring and directly soldered components are all that is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.
 

spiny norman

New member
Jan 14, 2009
293
0
0
james_LR90 said:
Sold direct meaning that you get very good value for money.
Or alternatively, 'Sold direct meaning the manufacturer also trousers the mark-up a retailer would put on the product.'
 

eggontoast

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2011
451
9
18,895
shadders said:
For the picture provided by another, sure, the amplifier looks a bit unordered, but then, if the circuit functions, is safe, and meets local regulations, should be ok.

Reminds me of valve amplifiers, where there is minimal circuit boards and the wiring and directly soldered components are all that is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.
An amplifier, which is liable to destroy itself due to self oscillation if speaker cable with a maximum capacitance of 200pF per meter isn't used, IMO, is not fit for purpose. If this tragedy should happen it's most likely to destroy your voice coils too as apparently any protection is voodoo too. Also if I'm relaxing and listening to some music, I don't want to hear the local HAM radio enthusiast over my Hi-Fi because the manufacturer has glued the case together without any earths. I also doubt that it has passed any approvals simply due to the lack of any information printed on the case (unless it's under neither). We can also drag the thread back to topic with its price, this self destructing, glued together receiver/amplifier costs, wait for it, £650. For that price you would expect premium components not cheap pots and a Lorin rotary input selector (really).

This is not value for money.
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
0
18,890
spiny norman said:
james_LR90 said:
Sold direct meaning that you get very good value for money.
Or alternatively, 'Sold direct meaning the manufacturer also trousers the mark-up a retailer would put on the product.'
Very few can understand that Spiny!

Most reputable distributors won't sell direct as they have retailers chosen by them in place already to do a specific job - taking their business away is counterproductive. But as you say, they make more money.
 

james_LR90

New member
Aug 17, 2010
1
0
0
It really is no hardship using NVA cables with NVA amps as they are very good value and are excellent cables in their own right.

Of course NVA makes a profit on the products as he is running a business. I very much doubt he is keeping the dealer's margin to himself and I would be more than happy to put my system up against anything anyone on here has regardless of price.

I can't say I've ever had my HiFi pick up the local taxi rank... The only sound I get is music!
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
151
87
18,670
eggontoast said:
shadders said:
For the picture provided by another, sure, the amplifier looks a bit unordered, but then, if the circuit functions, is safe, and meets local regulations, should be ok.

Reminds me of valve amplifiers, where there is minimal circuit boards and the wiring and directly soldered components are all that is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.
An amplifier, which is liable to destroy itself due to self oscillation if speaker cable with a maximum capacitance of 200pF per meter isn't used, IMO, is not fit for purpose. If this tragedy should happen it's most likely to destroy your voice coils too as apparently any protection is voodoo too. Also if I'm relaxing and listening to some music, I don't want to hear the local HAM radio enthusiast over my Hi-Fi because the manufacturer has glued the case together without any earths. I also doubt that it has passed any approvals simply due to the lack of any information printed on the case (unless it's under neither). We can also drag the thread back to topic with its price, this self destructing, glued together receiver/amplifier costs, wait for it, £650. For that price you would expect premium components not cheap pots and a Lorin rotary input selector (really).

This is not value for money.
Hi,

admittedly the construction is upon viewing rather poor, but then I have used building glues/resins that can withstand an inordinate amount of stress and sheer, so maybe that case structure is viable.

With regards to the loading, there was no technical data provided, so I assume you have prior knowledge. i certainly would not pay £650 for such a design. Reviews do help a lot in this situation.

Is this amplifier an old one harking back to the late 70's or early 80's? Would seem like a self build project rather than a commercial product. Or possibly a kit from the 80's as they were quite prevalent in that time frame.

Regards,

Shadders.
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
2
18,545
Which one of these amplifiers looks the best value .

This Nva for £650 .



Or this Abrahamsen V2.0 for £600, note the 1000va transformer *scratch_one-s_head*.

 

chrisr1718

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2009
52
0
18,540
james_LR90 said:
It really is no hardship using NVA cables with NVA amps as they are very good value and are excellent cables in their own right.
I'm sure they are, but why should I renew all my cables just beacuse I buy a new amp! That's the rip off.
 

Al ears

Moderator
shadders said:
Al ears said:
chrisr1718 said:
james_LR90 said:
Never again will I buy HiFi from a rip off manufacturer.
This is why I won't buy NVA...

NVA AMPLIFIERS AND SPEAKER CABLES – WARRANTY

Only NVA LS1, LS2, LS3, LS5, LS6 and LS7 is recommended for use with this amplifier, other cables will invalidate the warranty.

Now that's a rip off!
Who says cables don't make a difference?

To be honest it would only be a rip off if those cables cost excessively more than the ones I currently own.
Hi,

Not sure if you are being serious.

Surely any amplifier that is stated to have its warranty invalidated by using a bit of wire NOT purchased from NVA is a scam.

For the picture provided by another, sure, the amplifier looks a bit unordered, but then, if the circuit functions, is safe, and meets local regulations, should be ok.

Reminds me of valve amplifiers, where there is minimal circuit boards and the wiring and directly soldered components are all that is needed.

Regards,

Shadders.
I am. You could consider it a scam as you say but this is different to a rip off. If I recall correctly their cables are not overly expensive and as such it's up to you if you want an NVA 'system'. It's unusual I agree but certainly not a rip off.
 

Al ears

Moderator
chrisr1718 said:
james_LR90 said:
It really is no hardship using NVA cables with NVA amps as they are very good value and are excellent cables in their own right.
I'm sure they are, but why should I renew all my cables just beacuse I buy a new amp! That's the rip off.
If I replaced all my cables with the NVA equivalent I would make money. Your argument makes no sense unless you are actually using very cheap cables initially.
 

Daniel Quinn

New member
Mar 10, 2016
0
0
0
Seems to me a lot of comment with insufficient consideration .

The picture is mischeviosuly of an NVA amp from the 80/90's .

Quality is a nebulous noun .

NVA is not for everyone , it is designed with a less is better philopshy and it is for people seeking the best sound quality possible for any given outlay of money . If you are one of those people , then using any other cable would be nonesenical as the amps are designed for use with the cable . It is analagous to buying a Ferrari and sticking a ford mondeo engine in it .

It is perfectly acceptable for people to have other priorties or buying preferances .
 

chrisr1718

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2009
52
0
18,540
Currently using Chord inteconnects, so If I was to replace all interrconnects and speaker cable that would cost me another £350 on top of the price of the amp!!
 

Daniel Quinn

New member
Mar 10, 2016
0
0
0
Disengenous - they have a re-sale value .

And there is no obligation in respect of interconnects .

This forum appears to be say what you want sod the truth central . Very slack .
 

chelstondave

New member
May 23, 2010
23
0
0
Download sites I have seen can charge something like £8 for a 320 MP3 album and £16 for the same album as 24k flac - why?
 

Benedict_Arnold

New member
Jan 16, 2013
661
1
0
MajorFubar said:
Different people moaning vs defending I reckon. Personally I feel rightly shafted when Stateside they pay eg $2000 for something and over here it's the same price with the currency symbol swapped for a £, but normally I'm happy to pay a good price for a good service / product.
Just remember US prices are usually BEFORE sales tax (VAT), because that varies from State to State and if youbuy from someone in a different State to your own, and they don't have any kind of pysical business presence in your State), you can avoid sales tax all together.

Here in Texas, the sales tax on electronics etc. is currently 8.25%, which is comparatively low, as the State makes most of its money from oil revenues. So a $1000 sticker price TV, for example, will actually cost you $1082.50. At the normal $1.56 ish to the Pund, $1000 is GBP641.02, and $1082.50 is GBP693.91.

In the UK, VAT is 20% (Thanks Brussels / Osbourne / Brown / .... back to 1973) so something that has a pre-VAT price of GBP 641.02 will cost the normal, non VAT registered, person GBP769.23, so the differences in the price the punter pays aren't that different.

The rest is just down to ecomonmies of scale, much lower business property taxes (rates) and rents in most of the US, which drive up the UK high street retailers' overheads immensely. Also, most US electronics purchases are on credit, so the retailers make a healthy part of their profits on credit charges, often actually selling the goods at close to their net costs.
 

Al ears

Moderator
chrisr1718 said:
Currently using Chord inteconnects, so If I was to replace all interrconnects and speaker cable that would cost me another £350 on top of the price of the amp!!
And how much would you make if you sold all your Chord cables?
 

Al ears

Moderator
Benedict_Arnold said:
MajorFubar said:
Different people moaning vs defending I reckon. Personally I feel rightly shafted when Stateside they pay eg $2000 for something and over here it's the same price with the currency symbol swapped for a £, but normally I'm happy to pay a good price for a good service / product.
Just remember US prices are usually BEFORE sales tax (VAT), because that varies from State to State and if youbuy from someone in a different State to your own, and they don't have any kind of pysical business presence in your State), you can avoid sales tax all together.

Here in Texas, the sales tax on electronics etc. is currently 8.25%, which is comparatively low, as the State makes most of its money from oil revenues. So a $1000 sticker price TV, for example, will actually cost you $1082.50. At the normal $1.56 ish to the Pund, $1000 is GBP641.02, and $1082.50 is GBP693.91.

In the UK, VAT is 20% (Thanks Brussels / Osbourne / Brown / .... back to 1973) so something that has a pre-VAT price of GBP 641.02 will cost the normal, non VAT registered, person GBP769.23, so the differences in the price the punter pays aren't that different.

The rest is just down to ecomonmies of scale, much lower business property taxes (rates) and rents in most of the US, which drive up the UK high street retailers' overheads immensely. Also, most US electronics purchases are on credit, so the retailers make a healthy part of their profits on credit charges, often actually selling the goods at close to their net costs.
While I don't doubt your maths it does appear that the average UK punter would be paying £1000 for something you calculate, with VAT, should cost £769. That's quite a difference in my opinion.
 

Benedict_Arnold

New member
Jan 16, 2013
661
1
0
Al ears said:
While I don't doubt your maths it does appear that the average UK punter would be paying £1000 for something you calculate, with VAT, should cost £769. That's quite a difference in my opinion.
The Pound is quite weak against the Dollar at the moment, but normally, it's around $1.56 to the Pound.

VAT is 20% in the UK, so when comparing prices you need to do this:

Take UK price and divide by 1.2 to give the pre-VAT price.

GBP (sorry no Pound sign on this keyboard) 1000 incl VAT = 1000/1.2 = GBP833.33 pre VAT

To get price in Dollars multiply this by 1.56.

1.56 x GBP833.33 = $1299.99, say $1300.

Now add State Sales Tax, in Texas 8.25%.

Final US price is therefore 1.0825 x $1300 = $1407.25.

To see what $1000 plus tax is in Pounds plus VAT, simply divide by 1.56 then multiply by 1,2, so my $1000 pre-tax UN55JU6700 TV would have cost GBP769.23 at Currys. It was actually on sale at 20% off (slow sales post Superbowl here), so normally I would have expected to pay about GBP900 to 925 incl. VAT converted into UK retail price.

On Amazon.co.uk I see the 55 inch UN55JU6500 at GBP859.72 and the 6670 at GBP1099, both including VAT. I don't see the 6700 series listed. BUT the UK models have built in, possibly UK specific, Freeview tuners, which ours don't. Therefore the prices aren't really that different.
 

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