replacement mains cables for NAIM kit

admin_exported

New member
Aug 10, 2019
2,556
3
0
Anybody any experience or advice on changing the free cables that come with NAIM kit. Their upgrade at £400 a piece seems a bit steep for 122x/150x pre/power combo, cd5xs and flatcap 2x? I have a few clearer audio copperline for my AV kit and could easily use them instead. Also, who would agree that if you were to change them, then the only benefit would be to the powre-amp and flatcap as the mains to the cd only powers parts thats dont cover sound(i.e the flatcap 2x takes charge over the pre and cd anyway) and the benefit over the cd player would be minute if any at all?

Ray.
 

007L2Thrill

New member
Feb 9, 2010
2
0
0
Hi Ray

Nice system you have there! I had all the 5 series naim gear a couple of years ago and it does sound great!

Well, replacing the mains cables does make a difference but others would argue that they don't make any difference at all? But I will give you my personal opinion.

First the CD player makes the biggest difference changing the mains cable on it (as I found) then flatcap then power Amp, but changing them all together does sound best!

I used all Russ Andrews yellow power mains cables which IMPO sound great and are cheap, but sadly they are discontinued. For your clearer audio copper line mains cables, if you have some of these then give them a try! What have you got to lose?

Report back once you tried them.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The best advice is fit a mains filter (like the Tacima ones which are about £30) then keep your standard cables. The filter will take out the DC offset and other junk from the incoming mains, so you have a nice clean 240v sine wave which will make some difference. No-one has yet managed to convince or prove to me that any change beyond that is of any benefit.

You might think you hear a difference if you change them - but then you'd want to if you spent £400 on IEC leads....

IMO of course...
 

True Blue

New member
Oct 18, 2008
185
0
0
Ray, firstly, nice system you have there. Secondly I am assuming that you have done all of the usual naim "tweaks"

1. Pre amp on the top shelf of rack / cd under / power amp then power supply on the bottom.

2. Make sure any power leads cross signal cables at 90 degrees

3. Making sure not to fully lock the din cables but just engage the lock ring.

If not try that "free" upgrade first.

On the note of power supplies, do not fit a tacima anywhere near this kit.

To get substantial gains from your investment with the minimum of outlay I would suggest the following

1. Ensure the Power amp is on its own socket (free)

2. The rest of the equipment can be improved by using the Star Earth principle, invest in a Grahams Hydra or Build your own by removing the plug end and fitting them into the above product. Either £100 or £15

3. Finally have dedicated radial cct fitted by a qualified electrician circa £250

You could do the whole lot for less than the cost of a Powerline.

Hope that lot helps.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi, thanks for that. I would have thought that changing the cable on the CD would make no difference really as the flatcap takes over the sound and the mains supply to the cd just controls the transport, LED's and buttons but perhaps I'm wrong. I won't be able to test the clearer audio cables until next year when I have some time but, will keep you informed.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ive got a bad back and im not getting into a mains arguement.

I loved the tacima just for my cd player.

I loved a chord powercord mains cable for my cd player, but later changed it to a upgraded supra 1.5mm cable in the end.

I have a 2.5mm supra for my (as a pre) amp, and have another one for my power amp which im waiting on delivery off!!!!

Just tidying up my system i think helped, as an electrician/electronics worker i dressed in all my cables with sticky pads and tie-wraps so the mains wires were not near to the other interconnecting wires.

My only dissapointing buys were a RA Supercube,Isotek solus unit and some Isoplugs...

But not to worry!!!!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi, thanks for that info. I've heard before about differences in how the system is stacked. although I have this equip on a HI-FI racks podium unit, solid 1.5" oak between each layer if that makes any difference. I will give it a go though and try not locking the din plug too tight.

I cant really give the power amp it's own socket, I have one socket local to the hifi and was struggling to find a socket solution. I have recently bought the russ andrews power link(6 way block/un filtered) to get around this problem. Previously used the QED mains block but removed it after advice from Naim about not using filters etc.

I havent a clue about that star earth thing, what is that all about? what are the differences in those prices you mentioned?

Finally, what is radial cct?

many thanks,

PS all, I also have PMC GB1i's with this kit, it's a bit too clear and sometimes a bit light on the bass. I'm thinking of changing these for the new Neat Motive 2se, good choice?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Flatmonkey.......... QED silver anniversary bi-wire? I used this with Arcam cd192, rotel ra03 and kef iq5 for a while. it was too sharp and in my face and i replaced it with Atlas hyper bi-wire and was blown away by the results. Smashed the QED on every level. If you can borrow some from a hi-fi shop, then do so. Excellent cable, killed most of any brightness, beautifuly balanced neutral sound. I sold 2 lots to ebays and they were delighted with it.
 

roger06

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2007
374
0
18,890
I don't view my Naim mains cables as 'free' rather 'included in the price'. They are actually, engineered for their equipment, and take some beating.

Much Naim engineering, from what I've gathered, is in the power handling and they don't often benefit from upgrades from other companies.

Now this I DO know. A mate of mine spent £985 on a mains cable (it's American and I can't for the life of me remember the brand) and he brought it round for me to try. We tried it on the amp and CD player and there was no difference what so ever. Absolutely none. On his Cyrus kit though it was money well spent.

We then had another play and re-engineered the mains plugs without fuses. Wow - what a difference that made. The bass was more defined, the vocals much more clear. Totally amazing. But, I couldn't sleep at night knowing that if the house burnt down the insurance company would use this as an excuse not to pay out so I put them back.

I don't want to contradict other posters as haven't tried - but I reckon a 30 quid mains conditioner would make Naim kit worse. If you don't want to splash out on the hi line power cord then another low cost option to look into is improving the earth. Running an additional earth wire from the socket (home made - not recommended as sparkies will back up - or with a special socket with an additional earthing socket), run to an rod in the garden is said to have an amazing affect. I'll try it when I get a chance (the copper rod is under the sofa !!!)

I'm one of those smug gits who has a dedicated ring main which my Naim kit loves...
 

davemartin01

New member
May 4, 2010
2
0
0
True Blue:
Ray, firstly, nice system you have there. Secondly I am assuming that you have done all of the usual naim "tweaks"

1. Pre amp on the top shelf of rack / cd under / power amp then power supply on the bottom.

2. Make sure any power leads cross signal cables at 90 degrees

3. Making sure not to fully lock the din cables but just engage the lock ring.

Thanks for this. I haven't laughed this much in ages. Brilliant!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ray sheldon:
Flatmonkey.......... QED silver anniversary bi-wire? I used this with Arcam cd192, rotel ra03 and kef iq5 for a while. it was too sharp and in my face and i replaced it with Atlas hyper bi-wire and was blown away by the results. Smashed the QED on every level. If you can borrow some from a hi-fi shop, then do so. Excellent cable, killed most of any brightness, beautifuly balanced neutral sound. I sold 2 lots to ebays and they were delighted with it.

Thanks, but I have heard that before...I dont suffer with harsh trebles at all and my speakers have been wired up on other cables at other times (due to moving them around).

I have tried various different cables over the years and theres not the slightest bit of difference in the sound at all - everything ranging from what I have now, to cables costing £1000+. Sorry but I am a bit of a cable non-believer - beyond replacing stock cables with something reasonably thick and well made from OFC. I know someone has done a load of measurements on silver anniversary because of the internet rumours saying its bright and harsh and compared it next to their reference cable and there was no difference - either scientifically (resistance/inducatance/capacitance) or audibly (both by ear and by a frequency sweep). If your cable has nominally zero resistance and low capacitance (as most decent speaker cables do) then there should be absolutely no difference in the sound quality.

Have a read of this thread (bear with it, its a bit long but interesting reading applying to all cables)

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?42569-Silver-Anniversary/page7&highlight=qed+silver

Its a bit like the if one speaker cable is longer than the other argument


I am a big believer in the fact that if you want to hear a difference by swapping a cable, then you will, if you dont, then you wont.


All IMHO - if you want to go and spend £400+ on speaker cables and interconnects, thats great. Your money, your choice, if you think theres a difference, then there must be and thats all that matters.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
davemartin01, laughed this much in ages about what? Have I missed something?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
yep! mind over matter with most upgrades i think. The atlas was superior over the qed tho........defo.
 

roger06

Well-known member
Dec 23, 2007
374
0
18,890
ray sheldon:davemartin01, laughed this much in ages about what? Have I missed something?

Some don't believe in Naim black magic... don't worry, they all end up like Edward Woodwood in The Wicker Man...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ray sheldon:yep! mind over matter with most upgrades i think. The atlas was superior over the qed tho........defo.

OK - if I every get the chance to try some FOC I will.
I am loathe to buy new cable unless moving speakers requires it as I can think of more significant upgrades I could spend £200 on - like putting it toward a better turntable, which really will make a audible difference
 

True Blue

New member
Oct 18, 2008
185
0
0
davemartin01:True Blue:

Ray, firstly, nice system you have there. Secondly I am assuming that you have done all of the usual naim "tweaks"

1. Pre amp on the top shelf of rack / cd under / power amp then power supply on the bottom.

2. Make sure any power leads cross signal cables at 90 degrees

3. Making sure not to fully lock the din cables but just engage the lock ring.

Thanks for this. I haven't laughed this much in ages. Brilliant!!

Why?? Its about removing the delicate pre amp away from the power supplies. I suppose I just imagined the difference in the setup, must remember not to post any findings actually based upon experience, of, may I add not just me but many many others with pre power combinations.
 

davemartin01

New member
May 4, 2010
2
0
0
True Blue:Why?? Its about removing the delicate pre amp away from the power supplies. I suppose I just imagined the difference in the setup, must remember not to post any findings actually based upon experience, of, may I add not just me but many many others with pre power combinations.

Is this a poor design that makes naim susceptible if it comes near to another PSU? As for cables at 90 degrees, I envy the naim owners calibrated test equipment level hearing that could pick up this virtually non existent alteration. Naim seems like religion... you got to have faith... not facts..
 

True Blue

New member
Oct 18, 2008
185
0
0
davemartin01:

True Blue:Why?? Its about removing the delicate pre amp away from the power supplies. I suppose I just imagined the difference in the setup, must remember not to post any findings actually based upon experience, of, may I add not just me but many many others with pre power combinations.

Is this a poor design that makes naim susceptible if it comes near to another PSU? As for cables at 90 degrees, I envy the naim owners calibrated test equipment level hearing that could pick up this virtually non existent alteration. Naim seems like religion... you got to have faith... not facts..


Yawn, I feel sorry for the OP who asked a reasonable question regarding their equipment. A question, I, and many others have attempted to answer or guide in a mature and adult fashion. No-where was it asked or indeed wanted to descend this into another got to have facts debate. It must be great to live in a factual world, one where emotion and feelings cannot exsist. Being in such a World, why may I ask did you contribute to this thread considering you have not actually contributed any facts? Or indeed anyhing worthwhile to the thread.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,245
12
19,195
davemartin01:Naim seems like religion... you got to have faith... not facts..


That's right Dave.

I took my Naim kit up to Avebury on the first summer solstice after purchase, and at sunrise carried it all (walking backwards and chanting... "You're nobody without a Naim") seven times around this stone...



...then I repeated the exercise with my Naim cables (having smeared them with sheep droppings beforehand).

Co-incidently there was an AVI owner (like yourself) there making a disturbance by preaching at us from a sheet of Naim distortion figures and reading loudly from a Doug Self manual. But, at the very moment of Sunrise, a green flash from the direction of Salisbury hit him square on the forehead and he froze, arm pointing accusingly and his expression of righteous wrath preserved forever in stone...



Poor chap!
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,245
12
19,195
Dan Turner:Excellent photos Chebby.

Thanks Dan.

Yes they are mine. Although of course 'poor chap' is really Boxgrove Priory! (Artistic license etc.)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi, have read some very good sensible replies.

If I may contribute to them I would endorse getting an electrician in to run a dedicated 40Amp cabled spur from your consumer unit.
To be taken from the 1st feed off the power rail, fit with 30A circuit breaker to protect the wire. Also clean the True Earth. (Earth wire at your meter)
Your system will benefit from a lower noise floor off the Mains, a cleaner feed with a stronger current to the plug.

Next fit a Skytronic multi plug which has built in Star Earthing. Keep the power amp on it's own socket though.

http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=3632

Keep your existing Naim cables. You will get a good improvement by doing the above. The next upgrade should by buying a balanced mains supply unit then you are done!

Hope everyone is enjoying the festive season.
 

davemartin01

New member
May 4, 2010
2
0
0
Sorry True Blue I wasn't trying to start a war, I genuinely thought your "3 Naim tweaks" at the start were a jokey wind up, a little mickey taking with naim owners or naim humour. You then continued with your own suggestions which I did not think anything about. Thats why I laughed. It was only when you replied a little later that I realised you were serious about those 3. You do seem to have taken my disbelief at your 3 points as me blasting your whole naim fanship. I shall try and refrain in future in fear of upsetting any sensitive souls here.

Anyway enjoy the music!

Good pics Chebby, it's a shame no one is allowed close to the stones these days.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,245
12
19,195
davemartin01:Good pics Chebby, it's a shame no one is allowed close to the stones these days.

Thanks Dave. It's Stonehenge you are referring to.

The stones at Avebury are completely open to wander around.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts