Recommended 5.1 system

[hybridauth_Google_117949439720551066952]

Hi,

I'm looking to upgrade to 5.1 for listening to a number of surround sound mixes I have on Blu-Ray and DVD (DSOTM, WYWH, CTTE, Violator, etc.). I'm not afraid to get into the lower 4-figures and had the following specced out by Richer Sounds around a year ago:

1. dali opticon vokal centre speaker

2. dali opticon 6 floorstanding front speakers

3. dali ef12 subwoofer

4. dali (don't have the rear speaker info to hand)

5. Yamaha RX-A3050 amplifier.

What do you think of the recommendation? I was quoted around £4,300 mark. Given it's a year ago, I'm now scowering eBay... what would everyone see as benchmark secondhand prices?

Thanks,

Rob.

 

[davidf]

If you're listening to multi-channel music, ideally you want an identical speaker all round. This helps the speaker disappear more, rather than having slightly different characteristics for the front against the rear, and also the centre.

I don't know the size of your room (or whether it's live or more dead sounding etc), but you're generally better off with smaller standmount speakers and using dual subs rather than large floorstanders.

Your first port of call is to hear some set ups - even if it just in two channel stereo mode - and see which receivers give you the sound you're looking for. They can all sound great with AV, but music can be a different matter entirely.

You could look at the Emotiva BasX MC700 pre/amp processor and the matching BasX A500 five channel power amp, which comes in at just over £1400. This combo allows you to upgrade the processor if needed without having to do so with the amplification, or change just the power amplifier for a meatier one should you move to a larger room. A separate pre/power will usually bring better sound quality too, as each section is designed for one purpose and the two won't interfere with each other. This will certainly sound better than most AV receivers out there.

As for speakers, this is going to be personal choice, but for me, the best speakers for producing multi-channel music (as well as music) without going crazy prices are Amphion and KEF. Amphion (Helium or Argon ranges) have a clever waveguide that allows you to hear more of what the speaker is doing and less of what your room is doing and KEF (Q Series) have a nice wide dispersion that allows all the speakers to sound "as one", so to speak. Both manufacturers have speakers starting from just under £500/pair.

A couple of SVS SB1000 subs at around £500 each should be enough for most rooms, and give you a more even in-room response compared to a single sub.

 

[gasolin]

https://www.whathifi.com/forums/home-cinema

 

[Al ears]

https://www.whathifi.com/forums/home-cinema

+1

There's a subsection for this sort of thing if people could be bothered to look.

 

[hybridauth_Google_117949439720551066952]

I did look, but missed it. Don't be patronising.

 

[hybridauth_Google_117949439720551066952]

I've got a reasonably sized lounge... quite square in shape. Edwardian home, so high ceilings with thick solid walls. It woud be good to have wall mounted speaker facing the ears for the rear channels, from the perspective of furtniture layout and door location.

Like I said, I've already heard a set-up and was impressed. The purpose of my post was to test whether this is good value for money as a set-up, whether any paritcular components were limited by others (hence not worth purchasing, etc.). As a minimum, I have noticed that the Yamaha RX-A3050 has 9+ channel, so straight away there is functionality that I don't require.

I'm not ruling out going for something else, but I like the quality of what I heard, so looking for something comparable/better, with the main drivers being value for money and a good sound for the music I listen to: classic/progressive rock (Floyd, Zeppelin, Genesis), alternative (Nick Cave, PJ Harvey) and electronic (Depeche Mode, Hot Chip). I get that it has to be relevant to my ears and room, etc.

If you're listening to multi-channel music, ideally you want an identical speaker all round. This helps the speaker disappear more, rather than having slightly different characteristics for the front against the rear, and also the centre.

I don't know the size of your room (or whether it's live or more dead sounding etc), but you're generally better off with smaller standmount speakers and using dual subs rather than large floorstanders.

Your first port of call is to hear some set ups - even if it just in two channel stereo mode - and see which receivers give you the sound you're looking for. They can all sound great with AV, but music can be a different matter entirely.

You could look at the Emotiva BasX MC700 pre/amp processor and the matching BasX A500 five channel power amp, which comes in at just over £1400. This combo allows you to upgrade the processor if needed without having to do so with the amplification, or change just the power amplifier for a meatier one should you move to a larger room. A separate pre/power will usually bring better sound quality too, as each section is designed for one purpose and the two won't interfere with each other. This will certainly sound better than most AV receivers out there.

As for speakers, this is going to be personal choice, but for me, the best speakers for producing multi-channel music (as well as music) without going crazy prices are Amphion and KEF. Amphion (Helium or Argon ranges) have a clever waveguide that allows you to hear more of what the speaker is doing and less of what your room is doing and KEF (Q Series) have a nice wide dispersion that allows all the speakers to sound "as one", so to speak. Both manufacturers have speakers starting from just under £500/pair.

A couple of SVS SB1000 subs at around £500 each should be enough for most rooms, and give you a more even in-room response compared to a single sub.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

You can do it cheaper then what richer sounds quoted you but not for the same spec

I brought a Yamaha 1070 AV £1300 but you could get a deal on one at richer sounds if your buying 2 or 3 things I then brought the Dali opticon LCR £499 but you could find one one EBay a little cheaper or buy the proper one but I used the LCR for a centre channel which the proper centre from Dali is too big for my needs but it’s important that you match the front channels with the same make of speakers it’s important .

I then brought the SVS SB2000 which is one hell of a subwoofer for the money £800 which will be better then Dali’s subwoofer

then for the back speakers I did decide to go for monitor Audio sliver FX bye pole speakers which spreads the sound field out nicely at the back of the room but I was toying with Dali opticon 1s for the backs but decided the monitor Audio FX was the better option which I got them for £395 new which they retail for £499 .

and then you have to factor the cable in to this too

The Dali opticon 6s are very good speakers for the money and sound great I used to own some before buying the Dali opticon 8s but as you no the Dali opticon 6s are £1200 so setting up a home cinema is not cheap but I did mine in stages and brought the AV and centre I already had the option 8s but running 3.1 sounds great anyway as you can always buy the subwoofer and backs at a later date .

or you go for a different speaker package like the Monitor Audio sliver package but the trouble with this is you get a subwoofer that you may not want .

and think also if music is important to you as well ? As the Dali opticon 6s would be a great choice .

 

[Al ears]

I did look, but missed it. Don't be patronising.

My apologies if it seemed so. There are many on here that simply overlook the right section where they might get more appropriate and relevant answers to their questions.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I did look, but missed it.  Don't be patronising.

My apologies if it seemed so. There are many on here that simply overlook the right section where they might get more appropriate and relevant answers to their questions.

If he did go to the correct thread he would only get 3 answers
One from big boss, gel and bs
And bs has already answered him
More people here

 

[newlash09]

I would agree with mr.davidf on going with identical speakers all around. And adding atleast 2 subs to even out the bass response. Cheers...

 

[lindsayt]

I think that £4.3k is crazy money to spend on the audio part of an AV system. Especially one with rather uninspiring Dali speakers.

The audio part of my atmos AV system (5.0.2) cost me £1700 all in. It includes fairly good classic speakers from EV as well as OK classic speakers from Linn and Heybrook.

With a modern Audyssey AV receiver it doesn't matter if your speakers are from different manufacturers and have widely different tonal balances and efficiencies. The speakers in my system range from 84 to 97 dbs efficient. The receiver simply pumps more power to the speakers that need it.

There's a Denon 2300 receiver on ebay now for £329. Diminishing returns sets in big time here.

For speakers use whatever you have available already and add some used bargains as required.

The most important speakers in a 5.1 system are the 2 main fronts, which should also be good for music. And the centre, which should be good for speech.

The rear speakers are relatively unimportant. There are plenty of used speakers for £50 per pair that would be fine as rears.

 

[Andrewjvt]

With lindsy regards spending so much
But for AV I'd not have the size of speaker he has (for pure stereo yes)

For movies I'd go cheaper speaker packages or 2nd hand.

I'd make sure the centre and fronts are good quality and matching though. And large enough for scale.
I think.its a waste to buy brand new top range AV amp
Just buy last year's top range 2nd hand for a 3rd of the price

 

[hybridauth_Google_117949439720551066952]

Thanks - this is a useful response.

As I said, in my post yesterday, my criteria is:

* comparible quality to the recommendation (i.e. let's not compromise on sound quality produced, but if there are extra features that are not going to be used, then can go for a lower spec model... i.e. why would I need a 9+ channel amplifier, for a 5.1 system?)

* is the spec good value for money... or is there equivalent models that can produce the same quality of sound for a lower price

* as stated in original post... the driver for this is MUSIC, not video

A lot of responses have veered off of this, so is a little difficult to reach a conclulsion and move forward.

You can do it cheaper then what richer sounds quoted you but not for the same spec

I brought a Yamaha 1070 AV £1300 but you could get a deal on one at richer sounds if your buying 2 or 3 things I then brought the Dali opticon LCR £499 but you could find one one EBay a little cheaper or buy the proper one but I used the LCR for a centre channel which the proper centre from Dali is too big for my needs but it’s important that you match the front channels with the same make of speakers it’s important .

I then brought the SVS SB2000 which is one hell of a subwoofer for the money £800 which will be better then Dali’s subwoofer

then for the back speakers I did decide to go for monitor Audio sliver FX bye pole speakers which spreads the sound field out nicely at the back of the room but I was toying with Dali opticon 1s for the backs but decided the monitor Audio FX was the better option which I got them for £395 new which they retail for £499 .

and then you have to factor the cable in to this too

The Dali opticon 6s are very good speakers for the money and sound great I used to own some before buying the Dali opticon 8s but as you no the Dali opticon 6s are £1200 so setting up a home cinema is not cheap but I did mine in stages and brought the AV and centre I already had the option 8s but running 3.1 sounds great anyway as you can always buy the subwoofer and backs at a later date .

or you go for a different speaker package like the Monitor Audio sliver package but the trouble with this is you get a subwoofer that you may not want .

and think also if music is important to you as well ? As the Dali opticon 6s would be a great choice .

 

[davidf]

I think that £4.3k is crazy money to spend on the audio part of an AV system. Especially one with rather uninspiring Dali speakers.

Why? Is audio for movies inferior to that of music? I changed from a £1250 pre/processor to a (what is now) £5000 one, and it was worth every penny as far as quality is concerned, both for music and movies. Much of the time, when someone states that it’s a waste of money to spend so much on a particular item, it’s because they themselves wouldn’t do so - but that doesn’t necessarily make it a fact.

 

[lindsayt]

Rob, how many surround sound music titles do you have?

5, 10, 20, 50, 100?

How many more do you intend buying or renting in the next 5 years?

And how many 2 channel albums do you have, plus how many do you intend buying or renting in the next 5 years?

Also, when it comes to audio systems, what factors are most important to you in determining if you will find the auditioning of any given album an enjoyable event or not?

Dynamics, clarity, neutral tonal balance, soundstaging or something else?

 

[Al ears]

I did look, but missed it. Don't be patronising.

My apologies if it seemed so. There are many on here that simply overlook the right section where they might get more appropriate and relevant answers to their questions.

If he did go to the correct thread he would only get 3 answers One from big boss, gel and bs And bs has already answered him More people here

Thank goodness he didn't post on the Turntables subforum then.... ;-)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

It depends on what quality you are expecting from a AV amplifier most of the current AVs do not have the bigger power supply’s like they used to which helps with bass control and to handle the high’s & lows in music and most people say that you can not beat a 2 channel stereo amplifier for music playback which you can have the best of both worlds by buying a AV amplifier with pre-outs and connect a stereo amplifier to the AV to run your main L+Rs or buy a power amplifier to go with your AV amplifier . But this is mainly for physical formats ... CDs , vinyl and then streaming which most AV amplifiers have this functionality .

if you want a AV amplifier for multi channel music then you have some choices Pre-amplifier & Power amplifier that would be good with physical formats and multi channel music that way your getting a good power supply inside the power amplifier or buy something like a Arcam AV amplifier that will kind of give you the best of both worlds with multi channel music and physical format music .

or buy a middle of the range AV amplifier like the Yamaha 1070 because the flagship Yamaha 3070 will be overkill both amplifiers do hi- res music files both sound just as good as each other for films . 1 bonus with the Yamaha 3070 is it has fully balanced XLR inputs and a little more power under the hood and more channels which your not interested in .

You can always ways buy a Yamaha 1070 Or a Marantz AV which they do a matching 2 channel power amplifier and add a power amplifier or a 2 channal stereo amplifier to the Yamaha 1070 if you wish at a later date or try a 1070 on a home demo from richer sounds if you do not like it you can take it back and get a refund .

but I would do some research on AV amplifiers first forget about speakers for now just look around at AV amplifiers see if richer sounds could setup a demo for you on the model’s your interested in I am sure they will be pleased to help you as long as you do not rush into the first AV they show you .

 

[jjbomber]

There's a subsection for this sort of thing if people could be bothered to look.

HiFi Live show 2017 isn't under shows but HiFi. Fats Domino has died is under HiFi, album of the day is under HiFi, Song/Track of the day is under HiFi. Plenty of room for another one, especially a new member.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

There's a subsection for this sort of thing if people could be bothered to look.

HiFi Live show 2017 isn't under shows but HiFi. Fats Domino has died is under HiFi, album of the day is under HiFi, Song/Track of the day is under HiFi. Plenty of room for another one, especially a new member.

All very relevant no doubt but all placed where they think it will get most attention... wrong....

And I meant attention rather than relevant replies.

There might as well be just one big forum as far as some are concerned.

there are so few people coming onto this site this days as it is and if you look around the other category’s your be lucky to get a answer

So if I can help I will *smile*

 

[Al ears]

There's a subsection for this sort of thing if people could be bothered to look.

HiFi Live show 2017 isn't under shows but HiFi. Fats Domino has died is under HiFi, album of the day is under HiFi, Song/Track of the day is under HiFi. Plenty of room for another one, especially a new member.

All very relevant no doubt but all placed where they think it will get most attention... wrong....

And I meant attention rather than relevant replies.

There might as well be just one big forum as far as some are concerned.

On top of those we have had those determined to do the NHS a disservice and political and religious boll@cks.... I sometimes wonder why I am still reading these with a view to helping others......

It doesn't take a bright spark to work out where the most relevant replies are going to be posted does it???

 

[Al ears]

There's a subsection for this sort of thing if people could be bothered to look.

HiFi Live show 2017 isn't under shows but HiFi. Fats Domino has died is under HiFi, album of the day is under HiFi, Song/Track of the day is under HiFi. Plenty of room for another one, especially a new member.

All very relevant no doubt but all placed where they think it will get most attention... wrong....

And I meant attention rather than relevant replies.

There might as well be just one big forum as far as some are concerned.

there are so few people coming onto this site this days as it is and if you look around the other category’s your be lucky to get a answer

So if I can help I will *smile*

With recent postings I can understand why..... oh! and the removal of the Search function hasn't helped.

 

[newlash09]

I think they have different DAC's. So I'd suggest the 3070 over the 1070 for a little more power and arguably slightly better sound for surround music.

Then add a surround 5 speaker setup of the kef ls50's, add 2 svs pb2000's, sit back and enjoy music