Recommend me a

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

I’ve read all of the forum posts in the past 12 months that requested advice on upgrading a turntable, and although I’ve learned a lot by doing this reading I also need to now request advice on upgrading my turntable.

I’ve got a Rotel R04 amp that has a phono input, plus B & W 684S speakers. I want to buy a new turntable that is a significant improvement to my existing one. I can spend up to £1000 but if I spend all of this amount I may have a turntable mismatched to the other 2 parts of the whole system.

I’ve been recommended a Rega Planar 3, and I’ve read great things about this turntable, but heard mixed reviews of its Elys stylus. I could fulfil my spending ambition with a Pro-Ject Classic, a Clearaudio concept or a Rega Planar 6 but wonder if these turntables would far outshine the amp and speakers. I’d like a turntable with an upgrade path, and the impression I get from looking at the sub £1000 Pro-Ject range with 2M silver cartridges that an upgrade path exists here.

My existing turntable is a Pro-Ject debut bought over a decade ago with an OM10 stylus. I’ll save an upgrade to a moving coil cartridge, phono amp and new amp for several more years from now.

I mostly listen to 1970s reggae so I value the bottom end of the sound spectrum.

 

[davidf]

As with any analogue system, it is only as strong as it’s front end, regardless of the amp/speaker combination used - if it’s not there in the first place, nothing else will make up for it. People used to use Linn LP12s worth thousands with Naim Nait amplifiers worth £400. Some probably still do.

A Planar 3 would be a nicely balanced system with what you have, but that doesn’t mean that that’s all your system will be capable of. Refinement in the analogue front end shines through regardless. The Clearaudio Concept is the best turntable I have heard within your budget, and I’ve heard that against equivalent Regas, Michells, and Projects - none could come close to the delicate detail the Clearaudio is able to produce. At least with this sort of deck, you have a turntable worthy of a good quality moving coil cartridge, and if you’re looking at adding an off board phono stage at some point, that’s one hell of a front end to present to any system. It’ll stand you a good upgrade for your amp and speakers in the future too.

 

[Al ears]

I’ve read all of the forum posts in the past 12 months that requested advice on upgrading a turntable, and although I’ve learned a lot by doing this reading I also need to now request advice on upgrading my turntable.

I’ve got a Rotel R04 amp that has a phono input, plus B & W 684S speakers. I want to buy a new turntable that is a significant improvement to my existing one. I can spend up to £1000 but if I spend all of this amount I may have a turntable mismatched to the other 2 parts of the whole system.

I’ve been recommended a Rega Planar 3, and I’ve read great things about this turntable, but heard mixed reviews of its Elys stylus. I could fulfil my spending ambition with a Pro-Ject Classic, a Clearaudio concept or a Rega Planar 6 but wonder if these turntables would far outshine the amp and speakers. I’d like a turntable with an upgrade path, and the impression I get from looking at the sub £1000 Pro-Ject range with 2M silver cartridges that an upgrade path exists here.

My existing turntable is a Pro-Ject debut bought over a decade ago with an OM10 stylus. I’ll save an upgrade to a moving coil cartridge, phono amp and new amp for several more years from now.

I mostly listen to 1970s reggae so I value the bottom end of the sound spectrum.

David has a point up to the mention of a MC cartridge. Don't know why as you couldn't go there on your budget.

Are you willing to consider second-hand or do you need a new bit of kit?

 

[Al ears]

I’ve read all of the forum posts in the past 12 months that requested advice on upgrading a turntable, and although I’ve learned a lot by doing this reading I also need to now request advice on upgrading my turntable.

I’ve got a Rotel R04 amp that has a phono input, plus B & W 684S speakers. I want to buy a new turntable that is a significant improvement to my existing one. I can spend up to £1000 but if I spend all of this amount I may have a turntable mismatched to the other 2 parts of the whole system.

I’ve been recommended a Rega Planar 3, and I’ve read great things about this turntable, but heard mixed reviews of its Elys stylus. I could fulfil my spending ambition with a Pro-Ject Classic, a Clearaudio concept or a Rega Planar 6 but wonder if these turntables would far outshine the amp and speakers. I’d like a turntable with an upgrade path, and the impression I get from looking at the sub £1000 Pro-Ject range with 2M silver cartridges that an upgrade path exists here.

My existing turntable is a Pro-Ject debut bought over a decade ago with an OM10 stylus. I’ll save an upgrade to a moving coil cartridge, phono amp and new amp for several more years from now.

I mostly listen to 1970s reggae so I value the bottom end of the sound spectrum.

David has a point up to the mention of a MC cartridge. Don't know why as you couldn't go there on your budget and it probably wouldn't be a worthwhile move in the years to come with the quality of moving magnet / iron cartridges available now. Sticking with these mean you don't need a phono preamp if you get the right amp.

Are you willing to consider second-hand or do you need a new bit of kit?

Perhaps if you could explain what sort of upgrade path you imagined.

 

[davidf]

David has a point up to the mention of a MC cartridge. Don't know why as you couldn't go there on your budget.

I mentioned it as a future upgrade, which the OP mentioned in his post.

 

[plastic penguin]

If you like Pro-ject, as I do, look at a new Xpression. That should be more than adequate for a Rotel RA04, and should suffice for any future amp upgrade

Pro-jects are also responsive when it comes to a improved cartridge. But a MC IMHO is not required, unless you are spending thousands on a table.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

Thanks for the info and ideas.

Al Ears - I imagined upgrading from the stylus that comes with the new turntable after I wear it out through use or damage it, (one of these will eventually happen) and lots of Pro-Ject turntables come with a 2M silver cartridge which doesn't get much praise here.

I get the impression that the Rega and Pro-Ject models have more options and flexibility to improve things beyond what you first buy, if compared to the Clearaudio model - or I could be missing something (again, one of these will....)

I'm not committed to buying a brand new turntable, but I think I'd like a new one in the same as I'd buy a new LP instead of the same LP but cheaper 2nd hand and "near mint" as we say on Discogs. Is there a marketplace for 2nd hand turntables? I could easily spend any saved cash on LPs.

 

[plastic penguin]

The ClearAudio Concept is a wonderful table, and is as flexible as any at the price. But the price starts off at £1000 for the entyr-level MM version. Is that an overkill for a £250 amp (when new)? That's subjective, I suppose.

And it'll depend what amp you decide on next. If you are looking at the Rotel 15 range of amps in the near future, then 'yes' the Concept is a good place to start. However, if you are looking for a £700-800 amp, such as a Arcam FMJ A19 the Pro-ject Xpression (£650 approx) or equivalent Rega would be a better option IMHO.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for the info and ideas.

Al Ears - I imagined upgrading from the stylus that comes with the new turntable after I wear it out through use or damage it, (one of these will eventually happen) and lots of Pro-Ject turntables come with a 2M silver cartridge which doesn't get much praise here.

I get the impression that the Rega and Pro-Ject models have more options and flexibility to improve things beyond what you first buy, if compared to the Clearaudio model - or I could be missing something (again, one of these will....)

I'm not committed to buying a brand new turntable, but I think I'd like a new one in the same as I'd buy a new LP instead of the same LP but cheaper 2nd hand and "near mint" as we say on Discogs. Is there a marketplace for 2nd hand turntables? I could easily spend any saved cash on LPs.

There are several places to buy second-hand hifi, some more reputable than others. If you wish to buy new then I would stick with a good setup to start with. Yes the likes of Regas can offer more upgrade paths but only to a point. Financially you are better off buying the Clearaudio to start with if you can manage it.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

Thanks again Al ears and Penguin. I'll arrange a demonstration of a Pro-Ject Classsic and a Clearaudio Concept, and a couple of lower priced turntables if the shop will let me. Having read every word of this month's What Hi Fi reviews of these 2 turntables I think I need to base my decision on how the equipment sounds - which isn't a bad idea. I'm sure the Clearaudio will sound great and stand me in good stead for upgrades in the future more so than the Pro-Ject Classic, but the reviews seem to give a choice between the 2 different signature sounds of the Clearaudio and Pro-Ject Classic. I've reached the point where I need to hear something instead of imagining how great it sounds. Analogue Seduction will certainly get some £ out of me.

 

[BigH]

Problem with Rega is the fitted cartridges are poor, I heard the Rega 3 but I think the cartridge really let it down. Problem is it's very difficult to hear different cartridges which can make a huge difference. Analogue Seduction have a good range and you are lucky to be near to them. I would go and try out a few. I would be inclined to spend your money at the front end for analogue.

Another option although at the top end of your budget is Inspire, but sometimes they have ex demo TTs on offer, maybe worth a visit.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

Thanks Big H. It sounds like all roads lead to Peterborough and a choice between the Pro-Ject Clasic and the Clearaudio concept. The next challenge is to pick some records to take to the demonstration. I'll take a few favourites that I can hopefully pick out differences in the sound quality when played on the different decks.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

A minute ago I read this review of the cartridge that comes with the Clearaudio Concept and it gets 3 stars:

https://www.whathifi.com/clearaudio/concept-mm-v2/review

I think I'll not notice the finer points of why it only got a 3 star score because I'll be occupied with the overall increase in sound quality from the past 10+ years, but it does put the Clearaudio on a more even par with the Pro-Ject Classic.

 

[iceman16]

When you visit the dealer ask if they still do Pro-ject with Ortofon cart discount. When I bought my RPM5 carbon I had a very good deal with Ortofon quintet black-s.

 

[davidf]

A minute ago I read this review of the cartridge that comes with the Clearaudio Concept and it gets 3 stars:

https://www.whathifi.com/clearaudio/concept-mm-v2/review

I think I'll not notice the finer points of why it only got a 3 star score because I'll be occupied with the overall increase in sound quality from the past 10+ years, but it does put the Clearaudio on a more even par with the Pro-Ject Classic.

Ask yourself how WHF have given the best £1k turntable award to the Concept for 4 years in a row (if I recall correctly), and it uses that cartridge. If it was that bad, would it be the best £1k turntable? That rating has never sat right with me, not after the awards that turntable has received.

 

[plastic penguin]

I have the Concept V2 on the Pro-ject. Prior to that had the Classic Wood cart. Both equally competent. I've been smitten by ClearAudio carts since 2005 (ish).

 

[Al ears]

When you visit the dealer ask if they still do Pro-ject with Ortofon cart discount. When I bought my RPM5 carbon I had a very good deal with Ortofon quintet black-s.

The principle is sound I just wouldn't recommend the Quintet range to the OPas a starter because it's a moving coil with low output.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

DavidF your comments inspired me to find some other reviews on the CC MMV2 cartridge and there's loads of gushing praise out there, so I can certainly agree with your perspective - without hearing it yet. Having stared at a few cartridges this month, the cantilver seems to really stick out far from the body on the CCMMV2. Hope this means it's more obvious to avoid knocking.

I'm at Analogue Seduction next Thursday.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

You need to change your speakers and/or amp I’d say if your all out aims are to improve on sound quality and you’ve got £1000to spend. I defo sell your speakers and see if you could get something in the £1500 bracket. That would offer the best pound for pound improvement for your cash.

 

[grimharry]

Project xpression would at £600ish allow for a nice cart upgrade

 

[davidf]

DavidF your comments inspired me to find some other reviews on the CC MMV2 cartridge and there's loads of gushing praise out there, so I can certainly agree with your perspective - without hearing it yet. Having stared at a few cartridges this month, the cantilver seems to really stick out far from the body on the CCMMV2. Hope this means it's more obvious to avoid knocking.

I'm at Analogue Seduction next Thursday.

Its stylus is a very delicate thing, but you only have to look at it to see that it is thinner, and therefore lighter than much of the competition - maybe one reason why it’s capable of such fine, minute detail. It sounds more like moving coil level of detail to me.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

Thanks Quest for the 13th note - my amplifier is next on the list of upgrades, and I need to move to a house with bigger rooms before I get some better speakers. The amp upgrade will definitely be happening before the speaker upgrade.

Harry - I'll try and squeeze a Pro-Ject expression into the demo next week, although I'll be hearing the same cartridge as the Xpression with a Pro-Ject Classic.

I think whatever I take home from Analogue Seduction needs to be locked up and made inoperable on the nights that I come home from the pub without much hand to eye co-ordination.

 

[grimharry]

I’ll be looking forward to hear your thoughts on how the two projects compare when using the same carts

 

[BigH]

A minute ago I read this review of the cartridge that comes with the Clearaudio Concept and it gets 3 stars:

https://www.whathifi.com/clearaudio/concept-mm-v2/review

I think I'll not notice the finer points of why it only got a 3 star score because I'll be occupied with the overall increase in sound quality from the past 10+ years, but it does put the Clearaudio on a more even par with the Pro-Ject Classic.

I would ignore WHF reviews of cartridges, they give Rega 5 stars. You maybe able to buy TT without cart and choose a different one although it may well cost more. Really you need to hear them, a lot of it is down to taste. Re music, take a wide range, something with a lot of bass and drum cymbols. Take a record you particully like and see if it sounds much better. Beware of systems that have great impact, they maybe difficult to live with. If you live near then a home demo maybe possible. If you are not sure don't buy it, you can have several demos, there should not be any pressure to buy after a demo.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_1549506988710242]

Thanks for the advice Big H. I'm now at the stage of trying to decide which handful of records to take with me to the demo. I'll take some Glen Brown reggae for bass and drums, Funkadelic's first album for guitars, and perhaps a Rhythm & Sound one for some electronic music. And if it arrives in time Summun Bukmum Umyun by Pharoah Sanders.