Question about contemporary vinyl

[Gazzip]

Having just invested in my first turntable for twenty three years I am keen to build on my existing yet modest collection of vinyl from the eighties.

Does anybody here know whether modern master recordings are digital or analogue? It struck me that if contemporary artists are recorded and mastered in the studio in a digital format then the lacquer which is cut will be a reproduction of a digital format. Am I way off the mark here and does it really matter in terms of experiencing the full analogue chain?

 

[keeper of the quays]

Having just invested in my first turntable for twenty three years I am keen to build on my existing yet modest collection of vinyl from the eighties.

?

Does anybody here know whether modern master recordings are digital or analogue? It struck me that if contemporary artists are recorded and mastered in the studio in a digital format then the lacquer which is cut will be a reproduction of a digital format. Am I way off the mark here and does it really matter in terms of experiencing the full analogue chain?

think there may be something in this...try a contemporary lp compare to cd version? My Radiohead sounds same as cd.

 

[nopiano]

I don't know for sure, but had long assumed that a contemporary LPs would be DAA or DDA, to use the almost forgotten CD descriptor.

I think my newest LP is probably Graceland, (so if that worries you, please feel free to ignore me) and though is isn't to hand as I write, I'm pretty sure they were digital masters. After all, digital recordings were commonplace for anything up to ten years before CD was launched. Not to say that some didn't persist with analogue, and 'direct cuts' of course.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I have a few "digital recorded" records..they sound fine.bit if i compare my vinyl with my cd versions they sound quite different..esp the Beatles! But my most recent lp sounds the same as the cd..this is new to me? There's a lot of reissued vinyl out there for bout £25! Are these just vinyl cds?

 

[splasher]

I think almost all albums are recorded digitally now, but they are usually recorded at very high sample rates and bit depths so I don't think you would notice any of the issues associated with digital mastering. Pro Tools has been used since the mid eighties and I don't think there are many tape based studios left.

One album I bought recently on vinyl was Sound City, Reel to Real which was the album Dave Grohl and his mates made using the old Sound City desk which Nevermind was recorded on and which Dave bought when Sound City went bust. He made a documentary of it and I recommend anyone who's interested in analogue recording watch it. So I know that that album is entirely analogue! Good album too IMO.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I think almost all albums are recorded digitally now, but they are usually recorded at very high sample rates and bit depths so I don't think you would notice any of the issues associated with digital mastering. Pro Tools has been used since the mid eighties and I don't think there are many tape based studios left.

One album I bought recently on vinyl was Sound City, Reel to Real which was the album Dave Grohl and his mates made using the old Sound City desk which Nevermind was recorded on and which Dave bought when Sound City went bust. He made a documentary of it and I recommend anyone who's interested in analogue recording watch it. So I know that that album is entirely analogue! Good album too IMO.

so modern lps are made with computer programmes..makes sense i guess..much cheaper! So do you think playing my Radiohead on turntable will there be any sound improvement? I haven't noticed any to be honest..i played kraftwerk the robots in my turntable and it sounds great! As does my human league vinyl..if all these reissued lps are chucked through pro tools? Don't think ill bother..ill keep with cds..

 

[splasher]

I think most will be recorded and mastered digitally these days, but remember, even if they don't make separate masters for vinyl and CD, which they might, there are still differences. The vinyl will be an analogue reproduction of the high res master whereas the CD will be down-sampled to 16bit/44.1kHz so in theory should sound more natural between the clicks and pops.

 

[davedotco]

I think most will be recorded and mastered digitally these days, but remember, even if they don't make separate masters for vinyl and CD, which they might, there are still differences. The vinyl will be an analogue reproduction of the high res master whereas the CD will be down-sampled to 16bit/44.1kHz so in theory should sound more natural between the clicks and pops.

Why?

 

[steve_1979]

One album I bought recently on vinyl was Sound City, Reel to Real which was the album Dave Grohl and his mates made using the old Sound City desk which Nevermind was recorded on and which Dave bought when Sound City went bust. He made a documentary of it and I recommend anyone who's interested in analogue recording watch it. So I know that that album is entirely analogue! Good album too IMO.

I missed that one. Thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out.

UPDATE - It's bloody good!

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

It's a very vast theme that you opened there.

Today's studio are working with the methods of today. Even if the masters are coming from the original bands, they are generally extracted and the work is now done digitally. In 85% of the case, the mastering will be made "at today's sauce", it means lots of gain, digital compression, for making it sound the loudest possible. So there is absolute no reason to go for those actual records, you could buy a cd with the same qualities. They are, naturally, exceptions. I had recent Deutsches Gramophon editions that were absolutely good and well made, but it's more depending from the "label philosophy". It's the same for a few other labels, that liked to make good vinyls, and are now assassinated by the actual vinyl boom.

Now, even if you buy the lucky 15% of good masterised records, you will have the hazards of warped records, dusty to the core vinyls and other shinanigans like that, due to the miserable quality of lots of factories.

We could resume with : Music industry is killing herself, whatever the support is.

 

[splasher]

in theory should sound more natural between the clicks and pops.

Why?

in theory, because you're listening to a high res digital file and with CD it's down-sampled. As we all know, all digital music has to be converted to analogue for our ears. Most is converted to an analogue electrical signal and pushed through the speakers, whereas a digital master for vinyl is converted to an analogue groove but the benefit of producing an analogue waveform from a higher resolution source should still be there.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I don't care.I ❤️ my vinyl.

 

[keeper of the quays]

 in theory should sound more natural between the clicks and pops.

Why?

in theory, because you're listening to a high res digital file and with CD it's down-sampled. As we all know, all digital music has to be converted to analogue for our ears. Most is converted to an analogue electrical signal and pushed through the speakers, whereas a digital master for vinyl is converted to an analogue groove but the benefit of producing an analogue waveform from a higher resolution source should still be there.

so if my cd player is high quality is there any benefit from vinyl? As i mentioned previously the mastering in vinyl was different to cd..we are not talking digital recording but the mastering? As you said mostly modern vinyl mastered with computer programmes..then there is no difference twixt formats. High res download, low bit you tube, cd or vinyl? Then what's the point of modern vinyl? As it must then be all about dac! With turntables you have carts, arms, platters step ups, phono stages etc..no dac! With all other digital media its dac compliant, better dac equals better sound..how can a turntable compete with a dac? It cant..it can only be a vinyl cd..please tell me im wrong..im a fan of vinyl..but in my opinion well recorded cd on good kit..or low bit you tube through good dac wins..

 

[splasher]

I love vinyl, but I think it's because I'm middle aged and that's what I grew up with. There are so many processes involved in taking a performance and turning it into a consumer recording, any one of which done badly can ruin the finished article whether it ends up as a record, CD or hi res download.

But if you enjoy the music, then the format doesn't really matter. I never listen to a CD and wish it was a different format, I just listen to the music. Vinyl is a choice. If you like the pros and can live with the cons, go for it, if not, don't worry that you're missing out.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I love vinyl, but I think it's because I'm middle aged and that's what I grew up with. There are so many processes involved in taking a performance and turning it into a consumer recording, any one of which done badly can ruin the finished article whether it ends up as a record, CD or hi res download.

But if you enjoy the music, then the format doesn't really matter. I never listen to a CD and wish it was a different format, I just listen to the music. Vinyl is a choice. If you like the pros and can live with the cons, go for it, if not, don't worry that you're missing out.

i with you in this..i was raised in vinyl too. .abd nothing would make me happier than buying a lp that i used to have..which isn't scratched, warped! Etc...but i have a suspicion that this new lp is just the same as the cd..just using vinyl instead of shiny plastic! So im being duped...i have thousands of lps and even more cds..linn tt etc..so in not a casual listener..im a fan of cd..well recorded on good equipment cd cant be beaten...i love my records and if these re issues are just vinyl cds? There's no point in having them..

 

[Al ears]

I love vinyl, but I think it's because I'm middle aged and that's what I grew up with. There are so many processes involved in taking a performance and turning it into a consumer recording, any one of which done badly can ruin the finished article whether it ends up as a record, CD or hi res download.

But if you enjoy the music, then the format doesn't really matter. I never listen to a CD and wish it was a different format, I just listen to the music. Vinyl is a choice. If you like the pros and can live with the cons, go for it, if not, don't worry that you're missing out.

i with you in this..i was raised in vinyl too. .abd nothing would make me happier than buying a lp that i used to have..which isn't scratched, warped! Etc...but i have a suspicion that this new lp is just the same as the cd..just using vinyl instead of shiny plastic! So im being duped...i have thousands of lps and even more cds..linn tt etc..so in not a casual listener..im a fan of cd..well recorded on good equipment cd cant be beaten...i love my records and if these re issues are just vinyl cds? There's no point in having them..

Not all are. Do some research and you'll not be disappointed.

 

[keeper of the quays]

I love vinyl, but I think it's because I'm middle aged and that's what I grew up with. There are so many processes involved in taking a performance and turning it into a consumer recording, any one of which done badly can ruin the finished article whether it ends up as a record, CD or hi res download.

But if you enjoy the music, then the format doesn't really matter. I never listen to a CD and wish it was a different format, I just listen to the music. Vinyl is a choice. If you like the pros and can live with the cons, go for it, if not, don't worry that you're missing out.

i with you in this..i was raised in vinyl too. .abd nothing would make me happier than buying a lp that i used to have..which isn't scratched, warped! Etc...but i have a suspicion that this new lp is just the same as the cd..just using vinyl instead of shiny plastic! So im being duped...i have thousands of lps and even more cds..linn tt etc..so in not a casual listener..im a fan of cd..well recorded on good equipment cd cant be beaten...i love my records and if these re issues are just vinyl cds? There's no point in having them..

Not all are. Do some research and you'll not be disappointed.

of course audiophile pressings are different..but i can only talk re what i own and my Radiohead lp sounds exactly the same as my cd version...but i have a question? If you play one of these pro tools mastered/recorded vinyl records on your turntable? Do you think your turntable will sound better than the cd on your equipment?

 

[splasher]

Easy one for me to answer because I don't have a CD player.

That said, I think the answer could be yes or no depending on how your CD player and turntable compare, whether the vinyl has got the full benefit of the hi-res master and indeed whether your ears can tell the difference between red-book and hi-res (I can sometimes but not always). And that's before you even start on whether the vinyl crackles and pops.

 

[Gazzip]

I love vinyl, but I think it's because I'm middle aged and that's what I grew up with. There are so many processes involved in taking a performance and turning it into a consumer recording, any one of which done badly can ruin the finished article whether it ends up as a record, CD or hi res download.

But if you enjoy the music, then the format doesn't really matter. I never listen to a CD and wish it was a different format, I just listen to the music. Vinyl is a choice. If you like the pros and can live with the cons, go for it, if not, don't worry that you're missing out.

i with you in this..i was raised in vinyl too. .abd nothing would make me happier than buying a lp that i used to have..which isn't scratched, warped! Etc...but i have a suspicion that this new lp is just the same as the cd..just using vinyl instead of shiny plastic! So im being duped...i have thousands of lps and even more cds..linn tt etc..so in not a casual listener..im a fan of cd..well recorded on good equipment cd cant be beaten...i love my records and if these re issues are just vinyl cds? There's no point in having them..

Not all are. Do some research and you'll not be disappointed.

Do you think a lot of the vinly re-releases which are flooding an eager market will be from the original master or just CD quality transcribed on to vinyl? I don't mind paying £15 to £20 if I am buying a copy of the original, very high-res, master tape/digital file/whatever, but if I am basically paying for a transcribed WAV off a CD then I am wasting my money.

 

[andyjm]

Do you think a lot of the vinly re-releases which are flooding an eager market will be from the original master or just CD quality transcribed on to vinyl? I don't mind paying £15 to £20 if I am buying a copy of the original, very high-res, master tape/digital file/whatever, but if I am basically paying for a transcribed WAV off a CD then I am wasting my money.

No. The CD master is what you get when you buy a CD, the vinyl master has to undergo a great deal of mangling before it finds its way to the vinyl. Bass has to be limited and mixed to mono, the track has to be 'de essed', then the whole shebang has to go through a RIAA pre emphasis filter.

 

[Gazzip]

Do you think a lot of the vinly re-releases which are flooding an eager market will be from the original master or just CD quality transcribed on to vinyl? I don't mind paying £15 to £20 if I am buying a copy of the original, very high-res, master tape/digital file/whatever, but if I am basically paying for a transcribed WAV off a CD then I am wasting my money.

No. The CD master is what you get when you buy a CD, the vinyl master has to undergo a great deal of mangling before it finds its way to the vinyl. Bass has to be limited and mixed to mono, the track has to be 'de essed', then the whole shebang has to go through a RIAA pre emphasis filter.

Cripes! I had no idea!

 

[keeper of the quays]

Guess i must be imagining my Radiohead kid a thru my Linn, akito arm, dl110 cart and then music first step up! Sounding exactly the same as the cd version is a illusion..and the mastering of the lp is so rigorous that i cant hear it? Bearing in mind that I can hear what different conductors bring to a piece of classical music even with the same orchestra? Even excluding the grasping twits who just want to flog another medium with the lowest outlay possible? Sorry i remain unconvinced!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Many companies are going back to the original master tapes for vinyl re-releases, so are getting proper treatment.

The digital masters for albums are very hi-res, and not "CD quality" as many seem to think. So yes, many modern albums recorded digitally will have come from the digital masters, but will have been mastered purely for vinyl, otherwise it'd just sound wrong. The only time you will come across LPs cut directly from CD is when buying bootlegs. The only bootlegs remotely sensible people generally buy are live material.

The original master of an album won't be compressed like many of the resulting CDs made from it, as this is generally added purely for the CD, which is why many records tend to be less compressed than CDs.

So it doesn't matter whether a record has been produced from a digital master, as that digital master is much higher resolution than your CD player. Only now are we starting to get DACs coming through that can reproduce DXD - although whether we will get to own these huge hi-res files is another matter.

 

[Al ears]

I love vinyl, but I think it's because I'm middle aged and that's what I grew up with. There are so many processes involved in taking a performance and turning it into a consumer recording, any one of which done badly can ruin the finished article whether it ends up as a record, CD or hi res download.

But if you enjoy the music, then the format doesn't really matter. I never listen to a CD and wish it was a different format, I just listen to the music. Vinyl is a choice. If you like the pros and can live with the cons, go for it, if not, don't worry that you're missing out.

i with you in this..i was raised in vinyl too. .abd nothing would make me happier than buying a lp that i used to have..which isn't scratched, warped! Etc...but i have a suspicion that this new lp is just the same as the cd..just using vinyl instead of shiny plastic! So im being duped...i have thousands of lps and even more cds..linn tt etc..so in not a casual listener..im a fan of cd..well recorded on good equipment cd cant be beaten...i love my records and if these re issues are just vinyl cds? There's no point in having them..

Not all are. Do some research and you'll not be disappointed.

of course audiophile pressings are different..but i can only talk re what i own and my Radiohead lp sounds exactly the same as my cd version...but i have a question? If you play one of these pro tools mastered/recorded vinyl records on your turntable? Do you think your turntable will sound better than the cd on your equipment?

Better is rather subjective. It certainly sounds different and yes better, if you will, to my ears. CDs and SACD s have their place in my system also, mainly for classical music I must admit but not solely.

 

[Al ears]

Do you think a lot of the vinly re-releases which are flooding an eager market will be from the original master or just CD quality transcribed on to vinyl? I don't mind paying £15 to £20 if I am buying a copy of the original, very high-res, master tape/digital file/whatever, but if I am basically paying for a transcribed WAV off a CD then I am wasting my money.

No. The CD master is what you get when you buy a CD, the vinyl master has to undergo a great deal of mangling before it finds its way to the vinyl. Bass has to be limited and mixed to mono, the track has to be 'de essed', then the whole shebang has to go through a RIAA pre emphasis filter.

Cripes! I had no idea!

Nor had I. Bass mixed to mono is it? Why is this?