Many reviews and users complains about, that the black level on the 2010 models is not as good as on the 2009 models - the explanation from Panasonic was, that they choosed a driving scheme for the panel in the 2010 models which would decrease the blacklevel in a more smooth manner than on the 2009 models, which had a steep curve already after a few months There are lots of discussions about this subject on the net, but now 4 months later, this seems to have completely vanished from the minds.
Now that this thread is about quality control - manufactureres of both chips and equipent uses often burn-in to catch the weak components. The lifte time of a component is highly dependent of the temperature. Memory chips are placed in a champer for hours/days at a high temperature - afterwords they are tested - a very hig % of the weak components will fail during this burn in time. After the burn-in time, the reliability of the component is pretty high - till after some years when they will begin to fail one by one - this failing process is called "the bathtup curve".
Imagine what happens with the reliability and the life time when you stress a TV set, when the front screen gets hot to frie an egg, together with the sourroouding electronics - its a burn-in of your TV set - many ( most ) components in a TV set havnt been through a burn-in test - a sure manner to shorten the lifte time of your TV set, and a sure way to make the weak components begin failing. Not saying that all TV sets will get problems - this is a matter of probaility calculations. Especially low end TV sets with underdimentioned low quality power supplies and electronics.
ADDED:
Then to an interesting discussu¡on. According to above, one could draw the conclusion to cranck up for all the first 12 months - if the TV set fails its under the warrenty. Haha a bit blaspemy, especially on a Z1 - but, perhaps ( most probably ) all you achieve is a buzzing power supply, which according to many manufacturers are expected to buzz and within specs, or a dead pixel, which also many manufactueres rate as "within specs", for a plasma to speed up the rising black level, or even worse simply shortning the life time to 2 years instead of perhaps 5-8 years.
My own conclusion is to be gently with contrast and brightness, not to run the panel above hand temperature, turn off the power on the TV set before on the wall switch, and leave the rest to carma.
Imagine what happens with the reliability and the life time when you stress a TV set, when the front screen gets hot to frie an egg, together with the sourroouding electronics - its a burn-in of your TV set - many ( most ) components in a TV set havnt been through a burn-in test - a sure manner to shorten the lifte time of your TV set, and a sure way to make the weak components begin failing. Not saying that all TV sets will get problems - this is a matter of probaility calculations. Especially low end TV sets with underdimentioned low quality power supplies and electronics.
ADDED:
Then to an interesting discussu¡on. According to above, one could draw the conclusion to cranck up for all the first 12 months - if the TV set fails its under the warrenty. Haha a bit blaspemy, especially on a Z1 - but, perhaps ( most probably ) all you achieve is a buzzing power supply, which according to many manufacturers are expected to buzz and within specs, or a dead pixel, which also many manufactueres rate as "within specs", for a plasma to speed up the rising black level, or even worse simply shortning the life time to 2 years instead of perhaps 5-8 years.
My own conclusion is to be gently with contrast and brightness, not to run the panel above hand temperature, turn off the power on the TV set before on the wall switch, and leave the rest to carma.
John Duncan
Well-known member
@Peter, I definitely noticed my 2nd V20B was hot enough to fry an egg, if not toast crumpets on!
I run with conservative settings but because the full output is behind the dark filter, the user has very little practical control of the output. Run any dimmer and the image would look poor. The best one could do is employ POWER SAVE, in other settings, to rein the output in a little.
If you care to sacrifice some output, you can also effectively attenuate output a little by changing the over rated 10A fuse in the power plug for a 5A one. This is perfectly safe to do, the power requirements are only 350W, well within the rating for a 5A fuse.
This only applies to UK owners, EU owners' plugs aren't fused anyway.
I think you are correct about the black levels for 2010,in actuality not as good as 2009's.
They are being helped a lot by the dark filtering, I can see that it is very much the filter making the blacks black and not the panel drive circuit. Sometimes the actual black level in the picture felt underwhelming.
I did feel my first V20 had deeper blacks prior to applying a firmware update, only because the dynamic contrast range was so vast!! Maybe a little over the top in fact, why it didn't survive the firmware update I don't know!?
It ought to be possible to apply updates without upsetting picture quality!
Absurdly, applying an update to the 2nd V20B improved things, yet both sets started at the same firmware!
Some of the problems I noted for the V20B are down to poor components, of that I have no doubt. The mere fact that some of these gremlins settled a bit, points to that. However the design is still flawed for them to remain and be worsened by applying later firmware releases.
A plus side if you can call it that of the '09 models, you see the full output of the panel and can attenuate it to a more conservative level for longevity of product and safety of the eyes!!
I did have a run-in with a bad Viera G10, I now have chronic migraine courtesy of this faulty TV
(Despite lowering the settings to 'SAFE' levels). So be warned, play safe with the older models!! IF it looks painfully bright, chuck it back at the dealer without delay!!!
Still awaiting my Z1
(drool lol), hoping that here manufacturing tolerances will be tighter for their flagship with respect to quality control, build etc. If you talk nicely to Comet over the phone they will knock off £100 from their asking price
I still saved more buying from another retailer : finger's crossed for this bargain?
I run with conservative settings but because the full output is behind the dark filter, the user has very little practical control of the output. Run any dimmer and the image would look poor. The best one could do is employ POWER SAVE, in other settings, to rein the output in a little.
If you care to sacrifice some output, you can also effectively attenuate output a little by changing the over rated 10A fuse in the power plug for a 5A one. This is perfectly safe to do, the power requirements are only 350W, well within the rating for a 5A fuse.
This only applies to UK owners, EU owners' plugs aren't fused anyway.
I think you are correct about the black levels for 2010,in actuality not as good as 2009's.
They are being helped a lot by the dark filtering, I can see that it is very much the filter making the blacks black and not the panel drive circuit. Sometimes the actual black level in the picture felt underwhelming.
I did feel my first V20 had deeper blacks prior to applying a firmware update, only because the dynamic contrast range was so vast!! Maybe a little over the top in fact, why it didn't survive the firmware update I don't know!?
It ought to be possible to apply updates without upsetting picture quality!
Some of the problems I noted for the V20B are down to poor components, of that I have no doubt. The mere fact that some of these gremlins settled a bit, points to that. However the design is still flawed for them to remain and be worsened by applying later firmware releases.
A plus side if you can call it that of the '09 models, you see the full output of the panel and can attenuate it to a more conservative level for longevity of product and safety of the eyes!!
I did have a run-in with a bad Viera G10, I now have chronic migraine courtesy of this faulty TV
Still awaiting my Z1
StanleyAV:If you care to sacrifice some output, you can also effectively attenuate output a little by changing the over rated 10A fuse in the power plug for a 5A one.
Hmm yes - how do you make the color black ?
How is it a plasma can show deep blacks when turned on, while the panel in off-mode is gray ..... ;-)
How is it a plasma can show deep blacks when turned on, while the panel in off-mode is gray ..... ;-)
AC mains leads as supplied by Panasonic are .75mm2 which has an effective current rating of 6A. a fuse is there for cable protection, overrating in such a way (to 10A) does not protect the cable!!
I received my 46" Panasonic Z1 today, it is setup in a basic way to see if it is OK and everything. I have opted for the stand mount, wired connection, and will use separate speakers. So all I can tell you right now is that it has a cracking picture.
Initial install was quite hairy because you have to lift the panel so high to slot onto the stand, unlike other Panasonic panels which all have holes in bottom of the panel : not for the faint hearted!
My heart also sighed when I spotted a hair line cosmetic mark on one of the black side panels
had I paid the top whack of £4,500 I might be a little bit put out, I can live with some minor cosmetic damage I guess. I got mine for £1169 including delivery, now that is a bargain for such a fine TV.
Anyone for a 54" (£2,500 from one supplier).
What does separate this from the run of the mill production Panasonic's is how silky smooth the motion is. That was something I witnessed on dem on a 54", the motion looking really good.
The V20 tries to do smooth but it looks rather forced. My Z1
doesn't look overbright either which is surprising, nor does it buzz
much.
One thing not so good on dem, was the internal satellite tuner on standard def., best to upscale from your own broadcast source I think; I am using a Humax FoxSat HDR.
I have a feeling it will let less ambient light in compared to previous Viera's I have owned (S10,G10,G15,V20x2), will have to see how it goes. My V20s would wash out with bright sun
I hope that rising blacks don't happen too prematurely either
like with other production models.
Touch wood, this could be 7th time lucky! HAHAHA
I would definitely recommend at this price, why risk disappointment with a new 2010 model : so many problems, a TV is for enjoyment not despair!
I received my 46" Panasonic Z1 today, it is setup in a basic way to see if it is OK and everything. I have opted for the stand mount, wired connection, and will use separate speakers. So all I can tell you right now is that it has a cracking picture.
Initial install was quite hairy because you have to lift the panel so high to slot onto the stand, unlike other Panasonic panels which all have holes in bottom of the panel : not for the faint hearted!
My heart also sighed when I spotted a hair line cosmetic mark on one of the black side panels
What does separate this from the run of the mill production Panasonic's is how silky smooth the motion is. That was something I witnessed on dem on a 54", the motion looking really good.
The V20 tries to do smooth but it looks rather forced. My Z1
doesn't look overbright either which is surprising, nor does it buzz
much.
One thing not so good on dem, was the internal satellite tuner on standard def., best to upscale from your own broadcast source I think; I am using a Humax FoxSat HDR.
I have a feeling it will let less ambient light in compared to previous Viera's I have owned (S10,G10,G15,V20x2), will have to see how it goes. My V20s would wash out with bright sun
Touch wood, this could be 7th time lucky! HAHAHA
Sounds almost unreal with this price you mention, for such a fine set. There should be a difference with the original huge price tag - partly probably because the set is hand made in Japan, and not mass assembled in Europe as the other models. How do you find the build quality compared with your previous sets ? Does the front glass get hot ?
StanleyAV:
@Peter, I definitely noticed my 2nd V20B was hot enough to fry an egg, if not toast crumpets on!
If its anything like my old Pioneer plasma, that was exactly the same. The heat that poured out the back was unbelievable.
BUT, as time went on the heat intensity lowered. Now its not bad at all. Something must invariably change internally as the set runs in.
@Peter, I definitely noticed my 2nd V20B was hot enough to fry an egg, if not toast crumpets on!
If its anything like my old Pioneer plasma, that was exactly the same. The heat that poured out the back was unbelievable.
BUT, as time went on the heat intensity lowered. Now its not bad at all. Something must invariably change internally as the set runs in.
@Peter, the build quality (barring the slight cosmetic scratches), is first rate. Mine is assembled in Czech republic : whether that impacts longevity or performance I would not know. Perhaps only the 54" are made in Japan : that panel is 1" uniformly in depth, the 46" is almost that barring slight rear protrusion.
It has 6 fans which you can barely hear, even when sound is muted. The only build quality niggle I have is that of the tuner box : the UHF aerial socket is flimsy : too much play in connector!! Again assembled in Czech republic.
There is very little discernable heat coming from front of the panel. @aliEnRIK the heat on the V20 was pouring out the front of the panel because the panel is being driven really hard!! Really bad thing as Peter notes.
The panel brightness on the one I received was quite conservative, and just fine for my modestly lit room. Colour fidelity is natural, and even cinema preset has faithful colours. Switching to THX improves the greyscale more than the colours.
The initial MLL as observed seems modest, hopefully they are running this panel more conservatively and I may not see coarsely staggered jumps in black level as panel ages. Maybe their best designers got it right with this one?? What do you think Peter?
I found the almost super-real colours on the V20 not too my taste, it tries too hard and ends up with something that doesn't feel right to me. It's performance was quite inconsistent between broadcasts : a shade too truthful??
There is mild false contouring evident, as with most Panasonic plasma. So I have on occasion seen mild purple/green striping in backgrounds. I will try better screened cables, as I have found before now that such effects can be lessened. I would hate to swap samples just in the hope one might be better behaved : you end up swapping one issue for another more often than not!! (don't I know it after 7 Panasonic TVs!!)
I am quite pleased with this one, motion is fine, colours, natural, I just hope that in the long run it is reliable and acute rising blacks do not present themselves.
It has 6 fans which you can barely hear, even when sound is muted. The only build quality niggle I have is that of the tuner box : the UHF aerial socket is flimsy : too much play in connector!! Again assembled in Czech republic.
There is very little discernable heat coming from front of the panel. @aliEnRIK the heat on the V20 was pouring out the front of the panel because the panel is being driven really hard!! Really bad thing as Peter notes.
The panel brightness on the one I received was quite conservative, and just fine for my modestly lit room. Colour fidelity is natural, and even cinema preset has faithful colours. Switching to THX improves the greyscale more than the colours.
The initial MLL as observed seems modest, hopefully they are running this panel more conservatively and I may not see coarsely staggered jumps in black level as panel ages. Maybe their best designers got it right with this one?? What do you think Peter?
I found the almost super-real colours on the V20 not too my taste, it tries too hard and ends up with something that doesn't feel right to me. It's performance was quite inconsistent between broadcasts : a shade too truthful??
There is mild false contouring evident, as with most Panasonic plasma. So I have on occasion seen mild purple/green striping in backgrounds. I will try better screened cables, as I have found before now that such effects can be lessened. I would hate to swap samples just in the hope one might be better behaved : you end up swapping one issue for another more often than not!! (don't I know it after 7 Panasonic TVs!!)
I am quite pleased with this one, motion is fine, colours, natural, I just hope that in the long run it is reliable and acute rising blacks do not present themselves.
Got the info about the production of the Z1 on the net - perhaps to be able to cut the price to a level where users would buy, they cut cost on the set - for a price of 1.200 gbp, they cant hand build this in high volume. Still the perfect set dosnt exist, I suppose if the Z1 has less problems than the others for the same price, its a good choise. If the build quality is first rate, there is a good chance that the inside is also first rate ? Tuner box excluded. I dare say congratiolations, now you had the chance to check it in details. Iïm, interested in this Z1, please do post when news, both the good and bad. There are also sometime / rare ) contouring on the 50PX600, typically on images created graphically - I think this cannot be avoided completely.
If they did it right this time - I think you are the best to tell
If they did it right this time - I think you are the best to tell
Stanley,
You say you went for the 'wired connection'. Does this mean you don't have use the panel's wireless transmitter and receiver box for all connections (HDMI, Component) i.e. possible to wire directly into the TV panel at the rear?
Does the manual indicate how close the TV can be wall-mounted, as it would obviously look best on a slimline mounting bracket?
Regarding your mention of assemby in Czech Republic does it still feel like a top-end product, as you appeared to be very focused on receiving what should be an elite product from Panasonic? Also, when you unboxed it did you get that 'wow!' factor. Interested to know, as your first post didn't sound over-enthusiastic (minor cosmetic scratch nothwithstanding).
Still looks amazing value though - you still think so?
Thanks and enjoy!
Pauled
You say you went for the 'wired connection'. Does this mean you don't have use the panel's wireless transmitter and receiver box for all connections (HDMI, Component) i.e. possible to wire directly into the TV panel at the rear?
Does the manual indicate how close the TV can be wall-mounted, as it would obviously look best on a slimline mounting bracket?
Regarding your mention of assemby in Czech Republic does it still feel like a top-end product, as you appeared to be very focused on receiving what should be an elite product from Panasonic? Also, when you unboxed it did you get that 'wow!' factor. Interested to know, as your first post didn't sound over-enthusiastic (minor cosmetic scratch nothwithstanding).
Still looks amazing value though - you still think so?
Thanks and enjoy!
Pauled
I fully understand the skeptishm of Stanley - see it before trusting it - 2010 provides TV set of a quality never seen before, not all sets and models, but the trend seems to be clear - also in "high-end".
Fewer equipent gives you today this wow factor you mention - unboxing a Technics SL-1200 MK2 still does after 33 years, just to mention one.
Fewer equipent gives you today this wow factor you mention - unboxing a Technics SL-1200 MK2 still does after 33 years, just to mention one.
@Peter, always the sceptic from now on, I had so many bad Panasonic plasma, and a migraine condition from one.
They didn't build for the price I bought at Peter. The retailer I bought from buys in volume, these are remaining stocks of Z1.
When Panasonic decide to discontinue Z1, price was slashed to £1999. It is at that price my local dealers still has Z1 for sale at.
Now you see why build quality survives well, it is not built on shoestring budget!
Other white goods sellers want £1499 for a 46" Z1, it is still a bargain at that money. I had very good deal.
They didn't build for the price I bought at Peter. The retailer I bought from buys in volume, these are remaining stocks of Z1.
When Panasonic decide to discontinue Z1, price was slashed to £1999. It is at that price my local dealers still has Z1 for sale at.
Now you see why build quality survives well, it is not built on shoestring budget!
Other white goods sellers want £1499 for a 46" Z1, it is still a bargain at that money. I had very good deal.
pauled51:
Stanley,
You say you went for the 'wired connection'. Does this mean you don't have use the panel's wireless transmitter and receiver box for all connections (HDMI, Component) i.e. possible to wire directly into the TV panel at the rear?
Does the manual indicate how close the TV can be wall-mounted, as it would obviously look best on a slimline mounting bracket?
Regarding your mention of assemby in Czech Republic does it still feel like a top-end product, as you appeared to be very focused on receiving what should be an elite product from Panasonic? Also, when you unboxed it did you get that 'wow!' factor. Interested to know, as your first post didn't sound over-enthusiastic (minor cosmetic scratch nothwithstanding).
Still looks amazing value though - you still think so?
Thanks and enjoy!
Pauled
yes Pauled, you can use a direct HDMI connection instead of wireless. I am stand mounted, it would have been extra work just to set up wireless. Review states that mounting the receiver is quite tricky.
As for WOW factor, it has loads of that and that was even before I unboxed it!
It is in such a phenomenal box, and it has boxes within boxes within boxes! HAHA There are two sub boxes for the extras : the hefty stand, and the tuner box, wireless kit, cables etc.
I think adding the side speakers would be too much WOW, it is such a large item in my lounge : not much extra room in width compared to a 42" but it still makes more of a statement than my mum's 46" S10,
The design also has some extra magic. The black side bars seem to extend the visual plane of the picture, an illusion yes, but still rather skilfully done. Most other TVs you are always aware of the frame, even say on the dark grey of the V20.
The picture feels extra real and dimensional, this is the picture WOW factor that regular TVs merely hint at. Surely a design benefit that you lose as soon as you consolidate into a mass produced one box system.
The black level is satisfactory (for now!
), it may be that it's MLL (minimum light level) is conservative and won't noticeably jump like on most of 2009's models. I very much hope so. I think the designer's here knew what they were doing and didn't make a big mistake,,,,,,?
That extra deep black came at a price last year
and this year they seem to be cooking the panels behind those dark filters : how many of 2010 models will fail early??
The extra dimension of a larger image is more than welcome. You keep thinking it will slip up surely at this extra size
but it behaves itself and may even get better as components break in and so on. Even with regular standard definition it acquits itself well, in a way that other leading brand LCDs do not!! I will exempt Philips LCD from that because they do know how to perform well. That would have been my second choice if the Z1 had been unavailable.
There aren't many bargain 54" Z1s I'm afraid, only one dealer I know has it for £2,500, many still want the big money around £3,999 for it. Comet did have some at £2,500 but no more.
My Dad has Z1 envy, he applied grey duct tape to his Hitachi XR01 HAHA! Not quite the same!!
Stanley,
You say you went for the 'wired connection'. Does this mean you don't have use the panel's wireless transmitter and receiver box for all connections (HDMI, Component) i.e. possible to wire directly into the TV panel at the rear?
Does the manual indicate how close the TV can be wall-mounted, as it would obviously look best on a slimline mounting bracket?
Regarding your mention of assemby in Czech Republic does it still feel like a top-end product, as you appeared to be very focused on receiving what should be an elite product from Panasonic? Also, when you unboxed it did you get that 'wow!' factor. Interested to know, as your first post didn't sound over-enthusiastic (minor cosmetic scratch nothwithstanding).
Still looks amazing value though - you still think so?
Thanks and enjoy!
Pauled
yes Pauled, you can use a direct HDMI connection instead of wireless. I am stand mounted, it would have been extra work just to set up wireless. Review states that mounting the receiver is quite tricky.
As for WOW factor, it has loads of that and that was even before I unboxed it!
I think adding the side speakers would be too much WOW, it is such a large item in my lounge : not much extra room in width compared to a 42" but it still makes more of a statement than my mum's 46" S10,
The design also has some extra magic. The black side bars seem to extend the visual plane of the picture, an illusion yes, but still rather skilfully done. Most other TVs you are always aware of the frame, even say on the dark grey of the V20.
The picture feels extra real and dimensional, this is the picture WOW factor that regular TVs merely hint at. Surely a design benefit that you lose as soon as you consolidate into a mass produced one box system.
The black level is satisfactory (for now!
The extra dimension of a larger image is more than welcome. You keep thinking it will slip up surely at this extra size
There aren't many bargain 54" Z1s I'm afraid, only one dealer I know has it for £2,500, many still want the big money around £3,999 for it. Comet did have some at £2,500 but no more.
My Dad has Z1 envy, he applied grey duct tape to his Hitachi XR01 HAHA! Not quite the same!!
PeterHerz:
Hmm yes - how do you make the color black ?
How is it a plasma can show deep blacks when turned on, while the panel in off-mode is gray ..... ;-)
Witchcraft
Hmm yes - how do you make the color black ?
How is it a plasma can show deep blacks when turned on, while the panel in off-mode is gray ..... ;-)
Witchcraft
@Stanley Blacklevel saticfactory ( for now)
One of the major reviews on this set concluded "reference" on the gray scale, and "excellent" on the remaining picture quality related measurements. Perhaps the most important is "reference" on the gray scale.
An interesting issue related to this review was, that they made a quite comprehensive callibration - but only the grayscale was improved from "good" to "reference", the remaining parameters were "excellent" before and after callibration.
Unfortunately I cant go for the Z1 my self - have a very sunny room and neeed non-refelctive screen. Further looking at the 21:9 format 52PFL9955 ( yes there will be a 52" later this year according to the roumers ) , but this year unfortunately Philips chosed to use reflective screen - of all years they had to select this year
With a Google Box since the set dosnt support full internet - the case with the 21:9 is not entialy closed, I will wait to see the level of reflections and wait for the reviews.
One of the major reviews on this set concluded "reference" on the gray scale, and "excellent" on the remaining picture quality related measurements. Perhaps the most important is "reference" on the gray scale.
An interesting issue related to this review was, that they made a quite comprehensive callibration - but only the grayscale was improved from "good" to "reference", the remaining parameters were "excellent" before and after callibration.
Unfortunately I cant go for the Z1 my self - have a very sunny room and neeed non-refelctive screen. Further looking at the 21:9 format 52PFL9955 ( yes there will be a 52" later this year according to the roumers ) , but this year unfortunately Philips chosed to use reflective screen - of all years they had to select this year
PeterHerz:
@Stanley Blacklevel saticfactory ( for now)
One of the major reviews on this set concluded "reference" on the gray scale, and "excellent" on the remaining picture quality related measurements. Perhaps the most important is "reference" on the gray scale.
An interesting issue related to this review was, that they made a quite comprehensive callibration - but only the grayscale was improved from "good" to "reference", the remaining parameters were "excellent" before and after callibration.
Unfortunately I cant go for the Z1 my self - have a very sunny room and neeed non-refelctive screen. Further looking at the 21:9 format 52PFL9955 ( yes there will be a 52" later this year according to the roumers ) , but this year unfortunately Philips chosed to use reflective screen - of all years they had to select this year
With a Google Box since the set dosnt support full internet - the case with the 21:9 is not entialy closed, I will wait to see the level of reflections and wait for the reviews.
Regarding screen reflections Peter, the Z1 fairs better than most plasma because it sandwiches its glass layers much closer together. It washes out less than even V20/VT20 when the Sun is out, It could do with an AR coat to give nicer blacks
such as found on my mum's Viera S10. How can I really complain about my bargain?
I did unfortunately find colour intrusion in black/white films last night
its contouring can be a nuisance sometimes; if only it dithered rather than make such mistakes. It is very cinematic though when it does behave.
Even it's remote is classier : alloy fascia with neatly tactile buttons (no rubber feel here!! ) and its an RF device (2.4Ghz) for fast response. Also tuner + screen are hardwired. Screen uses heavier duty 13A cable/1.5mm2, tuner the regular 6A/0.75mm2.
Most ordinary Panasonic plasma only gets a 6A IEC mains cable in the UK.
My Dad is talking of getting a 58" V10
I did warn him of the black level rise issue!!
A member here said there are now BA versions being released of many 2010 models, whatever can that signify?
@Stanley Blacklevel saticfactory ( for now)
One of the major reviews on this set concluded "reference" on the gray scale, and "excellent" on the remaining picture quality related measurements. Perhaps the most important is "reference" on the gray scale.
An interesting issue related to this review was, that they made a quite comprehensive callibration - but only the grayscale was improved from "good" to "reference", the remaining parameters were "excellent" before and after callibration.
Unfortunately I cant go for the Z1 my self - have a very sunny room and neeed non-refelctive screen. Further looking at the 21:9 format 52PFL9955 ( yes there will be a 52" later this year according to the roumers ) , but this year unfortunately Philips chosed to use reflective screen - of all years they had to select this year
Regarding screen reflections Peter, the Z1 fairs better than most plasma because it sandwiches its glass layers much closer together. It washes out less than even V20/VT20 when the Sun is out, It could do with an AR coat to give nicer blacks
I did unfortunately find colour intrusion in black/white films last night
Even it's remote is classier : alloy fascia with neatly tactile buttons (no rubber feel here!! ) and its an RF device (2.4Ghz) for fast response. Also tuner + screen are hardwired. Screen uses heavier duty 13A cable/1.5mm2, tuner the regular 6A/0.75mm2.
Most ordinary Panasonic plasma only gets a 6A IEC mains cable in the UK.
My Dad is talking of getting a 58" V10
A member here said there are now BA versions being released of many 2010 models, whatever can that signify?
I absolutely agree on the tacktile buttons - only issue is if you accidently drop a glas of sodawather, the buttons get at bit jammed for a while - but still prefer the tactile plastic buttons.
Regarding the reflections, I see two issues - wached out colors/black level, and reflections in the front glass. Seems they almost eliminated the first problem on the neopdp panels, but second problem still remains ( also on LCDïs using a front glass ). During the evening this first problem is not an issue anyway - but the second problem is highly present, lamps and candlelights in the picture - close to useless in a bright room during the day.
Using a reflective front glass on LCD is a bit like shooting them selfs in the food - they remove the major advantage over plasma. Why buy a LCD with reflective screen, when you can get a plasma for half the price, performing equally or better ? Not taking the buzzing issues etc into consideration - but also some LCD sets seems to have their buzz problems this year. Z1 or 46PFL9705 ( or perhaps rather PFL7605 ), thats the question ;-)
Regarding the reflections, I see two issues - wached out colors/black level, and reflections in the front glass. Seems they almost eliminated the first problem on the neopdp panels, but second problem still remains ( also on LCDïs using a front glass ). During the evening this first problem is not an issue anyway - but the second problem is highly present, lamps and candlelights in the picture - close to useless in a bright room during the day.
Using a reflective front glass on LCD is a bit like shooting them selfs in the food - they remove the major advantage over plasma. Why buy a LCD with reflective screen, when you can get a plasma for half the price, performing equally or better ? Not taking the buzzing issues etc into consideration - but also some LCD sets seems to have their buzz problems this year. Z1 or 46PFL9705 ( or perhaps rather PFL7605 ), thats the question ;-)
Stanley,
Thanks for your reply and review (I've been away a couple of days).
You mention 'adding the side speakers would be too much WOW, it is such a large item in my lounge', so what size is your lounge and what distance are you from the TV for viewing?
I am in the throes of deciding 42" or 46", being I'm moving from a 37" HD ready Panny (I sit 11 feet from my TV as a minimum).
Thanks,
Pauled.
Thanks for your reply and review (I've been away a couple of days).
You mention 'adding the side speakers would be too much WOW, it is such a large item in my lounge', so what size is your lounge and what distance are you from the TV for viewing?
I am in the throes of deciding 42" or 46", being I'm moving from a 37" HD ready Panny (I sit 11 feet from my TV as a minimum).
Thanks,
Pauled.
@Pauled,
My lounge is of average size for the UK i.e.small, I haven't got the tape measure out for that but can tell you viewing distance is 10.5ft.
I was at 42" and it looked of a more reasonable size, as I stepped up films etc start to look far more cinematic on the 46", and you soon get used to the increase in size. IF you had 12ft to play with even a 50" becomes possible!!!
One slight concern I see on some programmes is a dynamic contrast shift : I did not expect to see floating blacks or whatever this is on their flagship. More noticeable on non-film material
Hot Fuzz on ITV1HD looked great without problems.
I was experiencing problems with BBC's Planet Earth with audio level flux : however other Dolby Digital channels were fine, BBC quality guy Andy Quested says programme is fine : maybe my receiver is to blame?? Hard to know where the fault is when you have new equipment.
@Peter, the Z1 is still less reflective than most other plasma, including the new ones. I think if you intend ever to purchase plasma, you do unfortunately have to accomodate it with different room lighting/and or location.
My lounge is of average size for the UK i.e.small, I haven't got the tape measure out for that but can tell you viewing distance is 10.5ft.
I was at 42" and it looked of a more reasonable size, as I stepped up films etc start to look far more cinematic on the 46", and you soon get used to the increase in size. IF you had 12ft to play with even a 50" becomes possible!!!
One slight concern I see on some programmes is a dynamic contrast shift : I did not expect to see floating blacks or whatever this is on their flagship. More noticeable on non-film material
I was experiencing problems with BBC's Planet Earth with audio level flux : however other Dolby Digital channels were fine, BBC quality guy Andy Quested says programme is fine : maybe my receiver is to blame?? Hard to know where the fault is when you have new equipment.
@Peter, the Z1 is still less reflective than most other plasma, including the new ones. I think if you intend ever to purchase plasma, you do unfortunately have to accomodate it with different room lighting/and or location.
@Stanley
I had this 50PX600 pana plasma since 2006, it has anti reflective coating, but we all agree in the familiy that the next will have matte screen. Baught last year a Philips 9000 set, THEN it was aparent which comprimise we have lived with for years - what a huge difference, and a real releaf to watch a clear picture without reflections. Further I think the format 16:9 is rather out dated, the movies I like to watch are in whide format, ( Cinemascope or a format close to Cinemascope), Documental programs and now also series are increasingly shot in 21:9, even some sport programs are now in 21:9 - perhaps combined with TV stations select more and more 21:9 material over 16:9 ??? The future is defenetly 21:9 the way I see it. A 58" is simply too big, the way to get a bigger picture for movies without a bigger TV set is by using a 21:9 - gives a gigantic movie screen - perhaps your father should also take a look ?
Added:I sit 9 feet from the 50", which is perfect. The new 52" 21:9 Iïm considering will be less than 9 feet.
I had this 50PX600 pana plasma since 2006, it has anti reflective coating, but we all agree in the familiy that the next will have matte screen. Baught last year a Philips 9000 set, THEN it was aparent which comprimise we have lived with for years - what a huge difference, and a real releaf to watch a clear picture without reflections. Further I think the format 16:9 is rather out dated, the movies I like to watch are in whide format, ( Cinemascope or a format close to Cinemascope), Documental programs and now also series are increasingly shot in 21:9, even some sport programs are now in 21:9 - perhaps combined with TV stations select more and more 21:9 material over 16:9 ??? The future is defenetly 21:9 the way I see it. A 58" is simply too big, the way to get a bigger picture for movies without a bigger TV set is by using a 21:9 - gives a gigantic movie screen - perhaps your father should also take a look ?
Added:I sit 9 feet from the 50", which is perfect. The new 52" 21:9 Iïm considering will be less than 9 feet.
StanleyAV:
My lounge is of average size for the UK i.e.small, I haven't got the tape measure out for that but can tell you viewing distance is 10.5ft.
I was at 42" and it looked of a more reasonable size, as I stepped up films etc start to look far more cinematic on the 46", and you soon get used to the increase in size. IF you had 12ft to play with even a 50" becomes possible!!!
I'm 9ft away from my 50-inch plasma, & it's perfect. If I had 12ft, I would have looked at a 60-inch one.
My lounge is of average size for the UK i.e.small, I haven't got the tape measure out for that but can tell you viewing distance is 10.5ft.
I was at 42" and it looked of a more reasonable size, as I stepped up films etc start to look far more cinematic on the 46", and you soon get used to the increase in size. IF you had 12ft to play with even a 50" becomes possible!!!
I'm 9ft away from my 50-inch plasma, & it's perfect. If I had 12ft, I would have looked at a 60-inch one.
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