Thanks for clearing that up. I don't think my 4 mth old Dav-is10 is ready for an upgrade just yet so I may well end up in the PSN Store - wonder if they will be selling Play TV anytime soon?
Too many frikking audio formats bloody hell! why cant they just keep it simple and only offer the 2 best or sumting coz its doing me head in, me old china
Hello again,
Will What Hi-Fi be updating their review of the PS3 from the May issue? Since it stated that the PS3 could not do profile 1.1 (it has been able to for a long time, and is now 2.0 compatible) ... and that PCM isn't as good as bitstream for HD audio... even though Andrew Everard would agree that it is.
I'm sure the average What Hi-Fi reader is very confused at the moment.
Will What Hi-Fi be updating their review of the PS3 from the May issue? Since it stated that the PS3 could not do profile 1.1 (it has been able to for a long time, and is now 2.0 compatible) ... and that PCM isn't as good as bitstream for HD audio... even though Andrew Everard would agree that it is.
I'm sure the average What Hi-Fi reader is very confused at the moment.
As we've said on several other threads on the topic, the PS3 didn't just lose a star because of audio issues - newer @£300 players (particularly the Panasonic) have no longer made it the best budget buy for either Blu-ray or DVD picture quality.
We've also mentioned that it remains the best all-round entertainer, and if the games and other features appeal then it comes very heartily recommended. I have one myself at home and won't be changing anytime soon...
We've also mentioned that it remains the best all-round entertainer, and if the games and other features appeal then it comes very heartily recommended. I have one myself at home and won't be changing anytime soon...
Thanks for replying so quickly, Clare!
I think that's really what I am getting at. The review said that it had audio issues (it does?) and that it wasn't profile 1.1 (it has been for a while, and has recently become the only 2.0 profile player in the UK).
I think my point is that it wasn't made clear that it was picture quality that marked it down... but other factors, which aren't actually even true/an issue!
I think that's really what I am getting at. The review said that it had audio issues (it does?) and that it wasn't profile 1.1 (it has been for a while, and has recently become the only 2.0 profile player in the UK).
I think my point is that it wasn't made clear that it was picture quality that marked it down... but other factors, which aren't actually even true/an issue!
The only disc I have with DTS-MA is The Simpsons Movie and the difference is there but not massive, I think I need a big smash mouth action movie and no neighbours in.
I am waiting for the Denon transport for a potential upgrade but who knows, not sure it will be a few hundred quid better than the PS3 though.
I am waiting for the Denon transport for a potential upgrade but who knows, not sure it will be a few hundred quid better than the PS3 though.
Shoot 'Em Up or Pan's Labyrinth are good DTS-MA discs to try... but there seems to be a bug with the PS3 update that means DTS-MA 7.1 soundtracks are only being ouput at DTS-MA 5.1... but this only applies to Blu-Ray discs released from New Line Cinema.
Apparently there's different ways of implementing DTS-MA... and New Line use a different method of labeling their rear effects speakers to the other studios.
Apparently there's different ways of implementing DTS-MA... and New Line use a different method of labeling their rear effects speakers to the other studios.
[quote user="Eiren"]
I think my point is that it wasn't made clear that it was picture quality that marked it down... but other factors, which aren't actually even true/an issue!
[/quote]
I have no problem with apologising (as we have. Repeatedly) for the Profile error, and we're very glad (me especially, as a PS3 owner) some - if not all- of the sonic issues have been sorted in the firmware release that came out AFTER the issue went to press, but i'm afraid you must have missed the clear mentions of picture issues in the test and verdict.
For example:
"..what is noticeable is the PS3's inability to match standalone rivals for depth of insight and three-dimensionality of the image, Cars looking not quite as resplendent here as of others."
and
"Picture (Four stars): While it was once stunning value for money, now it's been caught up by the pack".
That seems pretty clear to me! (As does the fact that, as said before, it remains a corking product - hence it being four stars, which i'll remind you means "Very Good" in WHF rating terms).
I think my point is that it wasn't made clear that it was picture quality that marked it down... but other factors, which aren't actually even true/an issue!
[/quote]
I have no problem with apologising (as we have. Repeatedly) for the Profile error, and we're very glad (me especially, as a PS3 owner) some - if not all- of the sonic issues have been sorted in the firmware release that came out AFTER the issue went to press, but i'm afraid you must have missed the clear mentions of picture issues in the test and verdict.
For example:
"..what is noticeable is the PS3's inability to match standalone rivals for depth of insight and three-dimensionality of the image, Cars looking not quite as resplendent here as of others."
and
"Picture (Four stars): While it was once stunning value for money, now it's been caught up by the pack".
That seems pretty clear to me! (As does the fact that, as said before, it remains a corking product - hence it being four stars, which i'll remind you means "Very Good" in WHF rating terms).
[quote user="Tom Parsons"]Thank you for the very useful and informative post Eiren - you are certainly spot-on with the PS3's audio capabilities. However, our argument for the inclusion of HD audio decoding onboard AV receivers still stands, as the majority of them do a better job of decoding than the PS3 (or other current Blu-ray player). However, it's certainly true that you will be able to take advantage of HD audio using your Audiolab 8000 - I'll be doing the same with my aging Denon![/quote]Hi Tom,
Should What HiFi though be using what I assume is some influence with HiFi manufacturers to actually address what is the real issue, i.e. poor handling of PCM over HDMI in receivers?
The reason I say this is because bitstream decoding would seem to be something of a blind alley. Currently 99.9% (or therabouts!) of Blu-ray discs do not include any Bonus View or BD-Live picture in picture capabilities so all these discs play fine when using HD bitstream to an amplifier. However, should such discs become more widespread as studios get familiar with the authoring, or someone invents a must have use for such extras, won't your letters pages be filled with people who've followed the bitstream advice complaining that they get no audio for this?
I'm not doubting that you and others are indeed hearing better results when a receiver does the decoding from an HD bitstream, however, this is more likely to be because everything is being done in one place and therefore the digital signal management is better, which more specifically means control of clocking is better handled.
Going forwards, the only way Blu-ray will work properly with full functionality and full quality is with in-player decoding. That way you have access to all the features in the best quality. The fact that currently bitstream sounds better would be better used to tell the manufacturers to sort PCM audio over HDMI out. Perhaps it's the receivers that should be getting marks knocked off for poor PCM over HDMI performance unless you can show that poor jitter on the source signal is responsible for the poorer performance?
If we (av community and hifi mags) don't get this message through, then we're faced with the prospect of IF we want to explore PiP extras or such like by simply pressing a button, we're instead going to have to stop the movie, change player settings to turn off bitstream, start movie, skip to where we were because no interactive titles support resume play, then press the button... watch the PiP extra, go through the whole mess again to turn bitstream back on and go back to full quality audio. It's hardly seamless interactivity is it?
Bitstreaming is IMHO just a kludge to bypass sorting out the real problem. Extra quality alone will not be enough to sell Blu-ray (or HD-DVD if it were still with us) to a wider audience. Enhanced interactivity is also going to play a part and the AV community may be inadvertently cutting itself off from that with bitstream audio.
Should What HiFi though be using what I assume is some influence with HiFi manufacturers to actually address what is the real issue, i.e. poor handling of PCM over HDMI in receivers?
The reason I say this is because bitstream decoding would seem to be something of a blind alley. Currently 99.9% (or therabouts!) of Blu-ray discs do not include any Bonus View or BD-Live picture in picture capabilities so all these discs play fine when using HD bitstream to an amplifier. However, should such discs become more widespread as studios get familiar with the authoring, or someone invents a must have use for such extras, won't your letters pages be filled with people who've followed the bitstream advice complaining that they get no audio for this?
I'm not doubting that you and others are indeed hearing better results when a receiver does the decoding from an HD bitstream, however, this is more likely to be because everything is being done in one place and therefore the digital signal management is better, which more specifically means control of clocking is better handled.
Going forwards, the only way Blu-ray will work properly with full functionality and full quality is with in-player decoding. That way you have access to all the features in the best quality. The fact that currently bitstream sounds better would be better used to tell the manufacturers to sort PCM audio over HDMI out. Perhaps it's the receivers that should be getting marks knocked off for poor PCM over HDMI performance unless you can show that poor jitter on the source signal is responsible for the poorer performance?
If we (av community and hifi mags) don't get this message through, then we're faced with the prospect of IF we want to explore PiP extras or such like by simply pressing a button, we're instead going to have to stop the movie, change player settings to turn off bitstream, start movie, skip to where we were because no interactive titles support resume play, then press the button... watch the PiP extra, go through the whole mess again to turn bitstream back on and go back to full quality audio. It's hardly seamless interactivity is it?
Bitstreaming is IMHO just a kludge to bypass sorting out the real problem. Extra quality alone will not be enough to sell Blu-ray (or HD-DVD if it were still with us) to a wider audience. Enhanced interactivity is also going to play a part and the AV community may be inadvertently cutting itself off from that with bitstream audio.
Clare with the PS3 now Profile 2.0 and now able to decode DTS HD MA and TrueHD you might want to give it 5 Stars for value alone. Its going to be a while before we see a standalone Profile 2.0 at this price, plus it plays games.
[quote user="Clare Newsome"][quote user="Eiren"]
I think my point is that it wasn't made clear that it was picture quality that marked it down... but other factors, which aren't actually even true/an issue!
[/quote]
I have no problem with apologising (as we have. Repeatedly) for the Profile error, and we're very glad (me especially, as a PS3 owner) some - if not all- of the sonic issues have been sorted in the firmware release that came out AFTER the issue went to press, but i'm afraid you must have missed the clear mentions of picture issues in the test and verdict.
For example:
"..what is noticeable is the PS3's inability to match standalone rivals for depth of insight and three-dimensionality of the image, Cars looking not quite as resplendent here as of others."
and
"Picture (Four stars): While it was once stunning value for money, now it's been caught up by the pack".
That seems pretty clear to me! (As does the fact that, as said before, it remains a corking product - hence it being four stars, which i'll remind you means "Very Good" in WHF rating terms).
[/quote]
[quote user="Clare Newsome"][quote user="Eiren"]
I think my point is that it wasn't made clear that it was picture quality that marked it down... but other factors, which aren't actually even true/an issue!
[/quote]
I have no problem with apologising (as we have. Repeatedly) for the Profile error, and we're very glad (me especially, as a PS3 owner) some - if not all- of the sonic issues have been sorted in the firmware release that came out AFTER the issue went to press, but i'm afraid you must have missed the clear mentions of picture issues in the test and verdict.
For example:
"..what is noticeable is the PS3's inability to match standalone rivals for depth of insight and three-dimensionality of the image, Cars looking not quite as resplendent here as of others."
and
"Picture (Four stars): While it was once stunning value for money, now it's been caught up by the pack".
That seems pretty clear to me! (As does the fact that, as said before, it remains a corking product - hence it being four stars, which i'll remind you means "Very Good" in WHF rating terms).
[/quote]
?
? 1 baffled user ?
?
Right..hmm...can I use my Yamaha DSP-AX757SE amp for HD audio via a toss link ???
I think my wife will send me in the spare bed for a while if I buy a new amp (Onkyo TX-SR605) for no reason.
thanks guys
Right..hmm...can I use my Yamaha DSP-AX757SE amp for HD audio via a toss link ???
professorhat
Well-known member
- Dec 28, 2007
- 992
- 22
- 18,895
Nope afraid not - you have to hook the PS3 up to an amp capable of accepting multichannel PCM via an HDMI connection - the digital optical connection can't carry the bandwidth.
Hopefully this gives you a reason to buy the 605 / 606 without being banished to the spare room
Hopefully this gives you a reason to buy the 605 / 606 without being banished to the spare room
I say it's worth being banished for a couple of weeks!
We all need a Clare Newsome!!!!!!!
(Did I say that out loud?!?!)
We all need a Clare Newsome!!!!!!!
(Did I say that out loud?!?!)
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