Processor to replace Arcam AV9

[gregvet]

No video processing? Hmm.. not really sure how much my system relies on the processing in the amp

It doesn't! your projector and/or TV will automatically scale any standard def stuff to the screen's resolution, and many standard definition sources will upscale to 1080p anyway. Obviously, HD sources don't need upscaling. I haven't used any up scaling in an AV receiver since, ummmm, well, ever.

My thoughts exactly. I wish there were more products somewhere between the audiolab 8200ap and the bryston sp3 that just did the audio stuff, just passing the video through.

 

[gregvet]

They may have a £6k Rega Osiris, which might be worth a listen.

Aranged the demo today for friday afternoon. They don't have the twenty.4's for comparison, so I am just going to hear the fact 8's, using the rega Osiris and linn majik as source.

They can potentially get electrocompaniet amps in too, but at a cost as they have to pay to have them couriered over from reading. I don't feel I'm at the stage where that's fair to ask them yet!

Will report in after Fridays demo.

 

[CnoEvil]

Aranged the demo today for friday afternoon. They don't have the twenty.4's for comparison, so I am just going to hear the fact 8's, using the rega Osiris and linn majik as source.

They can potentially get electrocompaniet amps in too, but at a cost as they have to pay to have them couriered over from reading. I don't feel I'm at the stage where that's fair to ask them yet!

Will report in after Fridays demo.

Good job.

I think the Osiris is closer to the sound you are looking for.

I have heard it along with the CDP, driving some Kef 205/2s.....it sounded good rather than great; but it was the first hour, of the first day, at a hifi show, in a far from ideal room. The speakers were in front of some reflective looking glass (Room CR6): http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/14/11/2010/the-northern-ireland-audio-show-2010-part-two/

I think it should be a good sound, and will be intrigued by what you think.

 

[gregvet]

Good job.

I think the Osiris is closer to the sound you are looking for.

I have heard it along with the CDP, driving some Kef 205/2s.....it sounded good rather than great; but it was the first hour, of the first day, at a hifi show, in a far from ideal room. The speakers were in front of some reflective looking glass (Room CR6): http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/14/11/2010/the-northern-ireland-audio-show-2010-part-two/

I think it should be a good sound, and will be intrigued by what you think.

Looks like a fun Hifi show. Nice to get dealers setups along side manufacturers. I've only been to a couple of shows, but sometimes I think the manufacturers do themselves no favours by sticking solely to their own products. I understand why tho of course!

Im looking forward to Fridays demo. I have to say I am surpised how good the majik ds is now that I have had more time to listen. Makes me wonder how much better my existing speakers would sound with a better amp :wall:

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I wish there were more products somewhere between the audiolab 8200ap and the bryston sp3 that just did the audio stuff, just passing the video through.

Hi gregvet

There are. For eg. the superb Audio Design Associates Suite 7.1 HD & Cinema Rhapsody Mach 4 AV processors 🙂

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[gregvet]

I wish there were more products somewhere between the audiolab 8200ap and the bryston sp3 that just did the audio stuff, just passing the video through.

Hi gregvet

There are. For eg. the superb Audio Design Associates Suite 7.1 HD & Cinema Rhapsody Mach 4 AV processors 🙂

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I haven't forgotten about them rick, I promise! It's just there's not much info on them, or anywhere local that stocks them for demo.

I guess what I really wish is that more mainstream makers would make similar products.

The rhapsody especially looks very clever. How much audio performance difference is there between the two models?

 

[CnoEvil]

Looks like a fun Hifi show. Nice to get dealers setups along side manufacturers. I've only been to a couple of shows, but sometimes I think the manufacturers do themselves no favours by sticking solely to their own products. I understand why tho of course!

Im looking forward to Fridays demo. I have to say I am surpised how good the majik ds is now that I have had more time to listen. Makes me wonder how much better my existing speakers would sound with a better amp :wall:

The show was fun, as it wasn't in the least crowded, so you could get chatting to the exhibitors (though they would have liked it busier).

There is no doubt that your speakers will sound incrementally better as the amp improves. I prefer well driven cheaper speakers, than less well driven dearer ones...though saying that, there are no definitive rules when it comes to individual taste.

Glad you're enjoying the DS...it takes a while to really appreciate its talents.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I wish there were more products somewhere between the audiolab 8200ap and the bryston sp3 that just did the audio stuff, just passing the video through.

Hi gregvet

There are. For eg. the superb Audio Design Associates Suite 7.1 HD & Cinema Rhapsody Mach 4 AV processors 🙂

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I haven't forgotten about them rick, I promise! It's just there's not much info on them, or anywhere local that stocks them for demo.

I guess what I really wish is that more mainstream makers would make similar products.

The rhapsody especially looks very clever. How much audio performance difference is there between the two models?

Hi gregvet

Nice one 🙂

From what i understand (apart from the extra connectivity and funky display) the Cinema Rhapsody Mach 4 has regulated power supplies for the analog stages which gives Cinema Rhapsody Mach 4 even great clarity, speed, etc.

Anyway please contact Neil Davidson at Genesis Technologies (ADA's UK distributor) on 07879 412280 and i am sure he'll be happy to help you.

Btw, have you also seen Audio Design Associates TEQ-12, TEQ-8 and TEQ-4 room correction systems featuring Trinnov Optimizer Technology :twisted: Now this what i call room correction :twisted:

http://www.ada.net/products/ht/teq_trinnov.php

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi gregvet

Just to be clear i don't deal with ADA.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Did the Fact 8s pass muster and how was the combination with the Osiris?

 

[Anonymous]

We've had them in store, but I've not had any of them at home in my own system. I think the main reason for that is that my own AV system has always been an AV system - its never really been compromised by a product that is good with music too. I've always felt that an AV product that has been designed for good 2-channel performance is usually compromised on the movie side of things. Of course, anyone's view on this will depend on expectations and any compromises they're willing to live with (and indeed ones interpretation of compromise).

The Arcam processors were always out of my price range, so we're never really a onside ration, although I did once own a Tag AV32R192, which I did buy because at the time it was touted as the ideal processor for music and movies, but it's music wasn't up there with the best, and it's not an option I've visited since. Because of how basic the 8200AP is, it has surprised me with movies - it may not be the most accurate processor, but im enjoying films, which is the main thing. But it's 2-channel performance is top notch, and suiting me more at the moment as I've been discovering a lot of music over the past year or so, and continuing to do so.

An SP3 would be nice 🙂

Hi Frank, could you expand on your Audiolab 8200AP's thoughts? I am also thinking of replacing my AV (Sony STR-DA2400ES) that's driving my B&W XT8/XT2/XTC series and a KEF sub but I couldn't really find any detailed reviews on the Audiolab. For the price it appears that the latest Audiolab is very high on the quality score card. Arcam's have all the "bells & whistles" but is the price hike really worth it? (quality of sound is what i'm after).

 

[gregvet]

Did the Fact 8s pass muster and how was the combination with the Osiris?

Thanks for the nudge Cno, I had almost forgotten to post!

The demo was good, although its really hard comparing such different setups in different demos.

I loved the fact 8s, and suspect with a different amp they could be amazing, particularly in the context of my setup. Much easier than the kefs would be in the short term. With well recorded music I think they may be the best speaker I have heard, but then I do love the pmc sound 🙂

I think the Osiris is great, but there seemed to be an exaggeration to certain bass frequencies that I found a little distracting. I can't say for sure that this was the amp, it may be the speakers themselves of course. I need to hear the fact 8s with another amp I think. Certainly I didn't walk away wanting to buy the osiris.

I feel like I am beginning to appreciate the different options available. I really need to demo the kefs again with a better amp or two, ideally back to back with the fact 8s. Not sure where I can do that tho!

 

[CnoEvil]

Good to hear how you got on......It's interesting that you found the Osiris "good but not great," as well.

Anyway, you have a good shortlist of both pre-pro/amps and speakers and it will be interesting to see what you end up with....Arcam goes really well with both Kef and PMC.

 

[gregvet]

Yes I expected to be more impressed with the Osiris too, given its the most expensive stereo amp I have heard by some margin. It didn't blow me away tho.

The fact 8s reminds me of how much I like well integrated two way speakers tho. The bass depth and slam isn't up to the kefs (which I haven't even heard amped well yet!) but there is so much in the mids and hi frequencies there that I think is as good as I have heard. I am very aware that a good speaker well amped may sounds better than an amazing speaker poorly amped tho, so I don't really know which way I will end up going yet.

Who knows, I may end up staying with my existing speakers and spending my whole budget on a holiday lol

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'll reply via your email when I get back into work next week gregvet 🙂

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi Frank, could you expand on your Audiolab 8200AP's thoughts? I am also thinking of replacing my AV (Sony STR-DA2400ES) that's driving my B&W XT8/XT2/XTC series and a KEF sub but I couldn't really find any detailed reviews on the Audiolab. For the price it appears that the latest Audiolab is very high on the quality score card. Arcam's have all the "bells & whistles" but is the price hike really worth it? (quality of sound is what i'm after).

David 🙂

Since trying out the 8200AP in my system, I've been very impressed. If the drawbacks can be overlooked, it's an excellent option for a combined home theatre/hi-fi system, or even just a home theatre based system. No picture processing (only pass through), which isn't needed anyway. One HDMI output, and four HDMI inputs. No room EQ. That's about it. The biggest issue is the lack of room EQ, either for those that have big speakers and/or an awkward room, or those that won't touch anything without room EQ and swear by it.

Positive points? Wonderfully simple to use, and sounds great, whether reproducing movie soundtracks or music. No worrying about whether the film has triggered the late night setting to 'auto', thereby removing any dynamics the film may have, because the Audiolab doesn't have the feature! It really brought my R300's to life in a three dimensional sense regarding music (which I had assumed was an issue of having them close to the walls), and I've never enjoyed movie soundtracks so much since the early Yamaha DSP days. I do have a feeling it loses out on the last 'nth' of impact, but all of its other positive points more than make up for it.

I can't really say how it compares to the Arcam processors as its been quite a while since I've heard one, but I imagine it will compare quite favourably considering the price difference.

 

[WishTree]

Since trying out the 8200AP in my system, I've been very impressed. If the drawbacks can be overlooked,

Thanks David.. It is very tempting to know. BTW, which power amps do you use to drive the rest of the system?

By any chance have you heard the Classe SSP 800? And if yes, how does it compare to 8200AP? I am aware that there is a huge price difference but some times the difference in price only means that more money saved and I get almost ~ same SQ (I hope)!

It would be really nice to know how the Audiolab 8200AP vs Marantz AV7005 Vs Arcam AV888 Vs Classe SSP 800 Vs Bryston SP3 perform against each other in HT as well as Stereo. (May be pit them against the Arcam AV9, just not to forget the original starter point 😉 )

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks David.. It is very tempting to know. BTW, which power amps do you use to drive the rest of the system?

I use a Rotel RMB1575.

By any chance have you heard the Classe SSP 800? And if yes, how does it compare to 8200AP? I am aware that there is a huge price difference but some times the difference in price only means that more money saved and I get almost ~ same SQ (I hope)!

I haven't heard the SSP800 - yet. Watch this space 🙂

It would be really nice to know how the Audiolab 8200AP vs Marantz AV7005 Vs Arcam AV888 Vs Classe SSP 800 Vs Bryston SP3 perform against each other in HT as well as Stereo. (May be pit them against the Arcam AV9, just not to forget the original starter point 😉 )

The Marantz will be replaced soon, so maybe worth waiting for that. We may then have four of those on demo... 🙂

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Wishtree

If you're looking at a mid/high end AV processors than i'll recommend that you also consider Audio Design Associates Suite 7.1 and Cinema Rhapsody Mach 4 AV processors 🙂

http://www.ada.net/products/ht/suite_7.1.php

http://www.ada.net/products/ht/cinema_rhapsody_mach4.php

Btw, i believe that on performance terms at least Audiolab's new 8200AP AV processor offers superb VFM 🙂

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the response. Lack of RoomEQ doesn't really bother me if I know I'm going to get better/detailed sound quality vs my old STR-DA2400es, which may seem obvious but investing a few grand on a new system is an investment that needs to be taken with care. I'll be intrigued to see reviews on the 8200X7...

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Niccolini Ludovico

The lack of room correction on the 8200AP also doesn't bother either. The 8200AP just performs and does so superbly. At the moment I feel that a quite a significant amount of money needs to be spent before a big overall difference in performance is gained over the 8200AP. Think along the lines of Audio Design Associates Suite 7.1 HD.

The 8200AP is in my opinion Audiolab's best 8200 Series product to date and is also so far my standout product of 2012. At £1249 the 8200AP is a bargain.

Btw, I hope that Audiolab's new matching 8200X7 multi channel power amplifier also turns out to be just as impressive as the 8200AP 🙂

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[gregvet]

I'll reply via your email when I get back into work next week gregvet 🙂

Cool, look forward to it 🙂

 

[WishTree]

Btw, i believe that on performance terms at least Audiolab's new 8200AP AV processor offers superb VFM 🙂

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

That is a great news! I have the Audiolab M-DAC which I am using as DAC. In your opinion, do you think the 8200AP and M-DAC are at par in Stereo / Music ? If so, then the upgrade path is much more simpler and straight forward for me!

 

[WishTree]

I haven't heard the SSP800 - yet. Watch this space 🙂

David - I would really like to know your opinion on this. I am planning to get the SSP 800. I might get it as well. But, if the SQ jump is not that much, especially in Stereo / music, then better to save some money and get the 8200AP

Also, in Stereo performance, how good is 8200AP compared to M-DAC (based on this I can have some reference as I currently have the M-DAC as DAC in my system)

The Marantz will be replaced soon, so maybe worth waiting for that. We may then have four of those on demo... 🙂

That is right - I have read some where that there is AV7007 to be out. It would be great to have these four back to back compared. I keep saying this again and again but I am keen to see the performance differences in 2 channel reprodcution !

 

[WishTree]

I use a Rotel RMB1575.

I have not heard the new version but I really enjoyed the Power amp RMB 1075 for some time. It is a cracking Amp.

I am very sure that you have a lot more experience with many equipment and that makes it very interesting for me to ask this question.

I moved from RMB 1075 to Arcam P7 and I noticed that a lot of top end harshness is removed.

Do you have some inputs on RMB 1075 vs 1575 on high frequency performance?

As I am considering the Rotel RMB 1565 only for other channels (beyond Front L & Front R).

Also, last question,

I noticed that in Stereo performance I am getting better results with a dedicated stereo amp when compared to a multi channel amp (I compared the P7 stereo performance against PM-Pearl from Marantz and the Classe CAP-2100)

Do you think this is a normal possible situation or one of a case?

I am aware that we are talking about different price segments here but I just want to know your views on my findings. I am guessing the main reason is the asymmetrical speaker set up (front L & R floor standing) apart from the dedicated amplifier for Stereo means more tolerances are built into the amp for peak handling when compared to a multi channel amp? (just guessing)

I read some where that you use the R300 for all channels (please correct me if I am wrong) and that automatically makes me read your posts with great interest! (as I have noticed that my center channel speaker not being exactly identical with Front L & R, there is some missing synergy - if I am listening to critically. Though after a while the movie engrosses me to forget this)