Pmc db1+

[Electro]

Why do you need to Bi-amp ? One good powerful hi current amp is usually better than two cheaper less powerful amps together , or do you mean you want to bi- wire from one amp , if so you can use bi- wire cable, i.e. terminated 2 to 4

Forgive me if I am being stupid

 

[Al ears]

I must say I like Partington stands, Dreadnoughts or Super Dreadnoughts. I know they look like a section of the Forth Road Bridge but what the heck! They look a whole lot better in silver by the way. Filling with Atabites is a personal thing some say better without. I save a bob or two and use kiln dried sand or kids play-sand. As stated previously Roksan are a good match, I have heard them with the Caspian amp and if you can find one second hand this is probably a better approach than their Kandy amp, in my view. It's all down to auditioning. If you get a good deal second hand but do not ultimately like it you can always sell it on. I would imagine the Creek would do them justice too, it is gutsy, but I have not heard this particular combination.

How much do dreadnoughts cost?

was hoping to spend around 150 to 200 bucks max on stands that way i can look at some budget dacs like rdac or dacmagic plus etc..

The Superdreadnoughts are £200 here, although they come up on Ebay occasionally.
The Atacama Nexus stands mentioned earlier cost £69.

 

[plastic penguin]

As already posted the foam panel in the end of the transmission line of the DB1+ is not a bung that should be removed !

If you want more bass you can either use a more powerful amp because believe me if you hear a pair of these on the end of a amp like the Bryston 4bsst or similar, bass is not in short supply :exmark: , or you could add a suitable sub to reinforce the lower frequencies.

I love the little DB1's they are a fantastic speakers that are capable of much more that a lot of people imagine

more power hmmm.. as a matter of fact i am looking for an integrated for my db1s but dont have the dough for a bryston.

max budget is $1500 , i was thinking about the nad 375bee (150 watts of pure nad power).

do you think the nad will be a good match for the pmcs ?

Yes that Nad should do the job

Others to consider would be the XTZ Class A D3 Integrated amp

http://www.audiosanctum.co.uk/Integrated-Amplifiers/XTZ-Class-A-100-D3-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-Black.html

Or maybe the Harman Kardon HK 990 .

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/integrated-amplifiers/1418-harman-kardon-hk-990-stereo-integrated-amplifier-with-digital-room-correction-and-dual-subwoofer-bass-management-part-iii.html

Or possibly something from Emotiva .

http://shop.emotiva.com/

The great thing about the PMC DB1's is they get better and better as you upgrade the rest of the system but will work well with almost anything .

Roksan and Creek are also worth looking at. Also the higher end Arcams.

Would the creek evo 2 do justice to the db1s considering its 60 watts ?

Ive heard db1s can handle alot more power , my basement is fairly large, so need max quality at loud volumes.

No experience with creek neither roksan

ive heard nad gear before ,it surely does go loud without much difficulty and the bass is overwhelming in a goood way.

Also these days a little coloration doesnt hurt, given the quality of poorly encoded lossless files.Almost everything that i listen to is in flac.

Dacs reduce jitter but can they reduce harsness?

The Evo2 is 85 watts RMS, and a very gutsy little amp. After having it on dem I've a real zeal for the Creek.

TBH, although the Nad has more than enough power to drive the DB1is, I don't think it'll be tonally as good as the Creek or Roksan Kandy, or even the Naim Nait 5i. The Nads tend to be very warm in presentation. Likewise the DB1is are fairly smooth, and adding warm and smooth can rob the soundstage of life.

I agree with you , tonaly naim and creek are superior than nad. I have heard naim 5i with some proac bookshelveshad an amazing depth ,detail but the dealer did point out that naim gear is revealing as any high end component.I believe he gave an example of a ferrari not performing well on a track which had bumps and cracks compared to bmw.

My gripe is that most of the stuff i listen to is poorly encoded .

i ocassionally buy tracks from juno, flac or wav mostly ...

i believe one tends benefit from the extra warmth or smoothness when listening to repetitve stuff , im not talking about trance , house music etc , more like tape loops , feild recordings , experimental ambient kinda stuff..

would an upsampling dac do any good in improving the source?

Put the Nad into perspective: If you had MA silver speakers or Neat (or any speaker with a slightly forthright top end), the Nad IMO would be a great buy. However, with DB1is, which I heard many times, including home dem, benefit from an amp that's smooth/neutral. In fact Naim and PMC are a great match - one that many, including yours truly, highly recommend.

Regards the lack of detail, the Naim, although doesn't quite have the searing detail of Cyrus or Roksans, it makes up for that slight deficiency with a big boned presentation. And the spec sheet says the Nait 5i is only 50 watts. Well, if that is true then I'm Steptoe... "Harold"!

I already have the MA rx6 silver, too revealing for my taste, ive hardly used them and im looking to sell them off for a reasonable sum.No comparison with the pmcs in every aspect...atleast thats what i feel.

Naim nait 5i could be a possibilty but it only offers one terminal so no biamping

What makes me really drool is the uniti series but alas thats out of my budget!!

What amp do you currently have? I'd suggest that a Nad and MAs are a far better match than Nad and PMC. Yes, I agree totally the PMCs have a better sonic balance than the MAs (I own the RS6s), but hi-fi matching is a strange hobby, in that you don't need the greatest individual components to achieve a cracking sound. It is a tricky balance whichever route or components you choose. The effort is worthwhile, though.

BTW, as Electro says, why the need to bi-amp? It doesn't give you any extra power as you're effectively using the integrated as a pre-amp. What it does give you is added control.

 

[John Duncan]

Right, a few points since I have or had a few of the components that are being discussed. First note that I now have the newer DB1i but had the DB1+ a couple of years ago.

The DB1i works really well with the Cambridge. Lots of power and clarity, if - to my ears - slightly more ragged in the treble than the NaimUniti it replaced. I realised that it does have lots of clean power when for some reason I managed to set some sort of timer (or something went wrong with the iPad app or something) when my system started playing my iTunes library at random at 5am rather loudly. Whilst this was somewhat annoying, I did think "oo that sounds good".

The DB1s were on the end of a Uniti beforehand and, whilst I don't think I've explicitly heard the two together, I'd expect the Nait 5i to be a very good match. I would really not worry about the single terminals that much; you can't bi-amp unless you add a power amp, and my experience of biwiring (single terminal at amp end, dual at speaker end) as showing an improvement could easily have fallen into the realms of placebo.

Lastly, when I had DB1+s previously it was with a Creek 5350SE (is that right?) which was also a very good match. Rare as hen's teeth though, and can't speak for how they'd be with their other amps.

 

[Vortex160]

As already posted the foam panel in the end of the transmission line of the DB1+ is not a bung that should be removed !

If you want more bass you can either use a more powerful amp because believe me if you hear a pair of these on the end of a amp like the Bryston 4bsst or similar, bass is not in short supply :exmark: , or you could add a suitable sub to reinforce the lower frequencies.

I love the little DB1's they are a fantastic speakers that are capable of much more that a lot of people imagine

more power hmmm.. as a matter of fact i am looking for an integrated for my db1s but dont have the dough for a bryston.

max budget is $1500 , i was thinking about the nad 375bee (150 watts of pure nad power).

do you think the nad will be a good match for the pmcs ?

Yes that Nad should do the job

Others to consider would be the XTZ Class A D3 Integrated amp

http://www.audiosanctum.co.uk/Integrated-Amplifiers/XTZ-Class-A-100-D3-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-Black.html

Or maybe the Harman Kardon HK 990 .

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/integrated-amplifiers/1418-harman-kardon-hk-990-stereo-integrated-amplifier-with-digital-room-correction-and-dual-subwoofer-bass-management-part-iii.html

Or possibly something from Emotiva .

http://shop.emotiva.com/

The great thing about the PMC DB1's is they get better and better as you upgrade the rest of the system but will work well with almost anything .

Roksan and Creek are also worth looking at. Also the higher end Arcams.

Would the creek evo 2 do justice to the db1s considering its 60 watts ?

Ive heard db1s can handle alot more power , my basement is fairly large, so need max quality at loud volumes.

No experience with creek neither roksan

ive heard nad gear before ,it surely does go loud without much difficulty and the bass is overwhelming in a goood way.

Also these days a little coloration doesnt hurt, given the quality of poorly encoded lossless files.Almost everything that i listen to is in flac.

Dacs reduce jitter but can they reduce harsness?

The Evo2 is 85 watts RMS, and a very gutsy little amp. After having it on dem I've a real zeal for the Creek.

TBH, although the Nad has more than enough power to drive the DB1is, I don't think it'll be tonally as good as the Creek or Roksan Kandy, or even the Naim Nait 5i. The Nads tend to be very warm in presentation. Likewise the DB1is are fairly smooth, and adding warm and smooth can rob the soundstage of life.

I agree with you , tonaly naim and creek are superior than nad. I have heard naim 5i with some proac bookshelveshad an amazing depth ,detail but the dealer did point out that naim gear is revealing as any high end component.I believe he gave an example of a ferrari not performing well on a track which had bumps and cracks compared to bmw.

My gripe is that most of the stuff i listen to is poorly encoded .

i ocassionally buy tracks from juno, flac or wav mostly ...

i believe one tends benefit from the extra warmth or smoothness when listening to repetitve stuff , im not talking about trance , house music etc , more like tape loops , feild recordings , experimental ambient kinda stuff..

would an upsampling dac do any good in improving the source?

Put the Nad into perspective: If you had MA silver speakers or Neat (or any speaker with a slightly forthright top end), the Nad IMO would be a great buy. However, with DB1is, which I heard many times, including home dem, benefit from an amp that's smooth/neutral. In fact Naim and PMC are a great match - one that many, including yours truly, highly recommend.

Regards the lack of detail, the Naim, although doesn't quite have the searing detail of Cyrus or Roksans, it makes up for that slight deficiency with a big boned presentation. And the spec sheet says the Nait 5i is only 50 watts. Well, if that is true then I'm Steptoe... "Harold"!

I already have the MA rx6 silver, too revealing for my taste, ive hardly used them and im looking to sell them off for a reasonable sum.No comparison with the pmcs in every aspect...atleast thats what i feel.

Naim nait 5i could be a possibilty but it only offers one terminal so no biamping

What makes me really drool is the uniti series but alas thats out of my budget!!

What amp do you currently have? I'd suggest that a Nad and MAs are a far better match than Nad and PMC. Yes, I agree totally the PMCs have a better sonic balance than the MAs (I own the RS6s), but hi-fi matching is a strange hobby, in that you don't need the greatest individual components to achieve a cracking sound. It is a tricky balance whichever route or components you choose. The effort is worthwhile, though.

BTW, as Electro says, why the need to bi-amp? It doesn't give you any extra power as you're effectively using the integrated as a pre-amp. What it does give you is added control.

Right now im using a denon avr , its too sparkly, its basically 90 watts per channel , the ma rx6 sound flat ,muddy and harsh with the denon, basically its like sounds like a fork and a knife schreeching against an empty plate.

I want to biamp the db1s because i feel seperate power for hf and lf improves the imaging and sound stage signifcantly...Especially if your listening to complex tunes.

 

[Vortex160]

Right, a few points since I have or had a few of the components that are being discussed. First note that I now have the newer DB1i but had the DB1+ a couple of years ago.

The DB1i works really well with the Cambridge. Lots of power and clarity, if - to my ears - slightly more ragged in the treble than the NaimUniti it replaced. I realised that it does have lots of clean power when for some reason I managed to set some sort of timer (or something went wrong with the iPad app or something) when my system started playing my iTunes library at random at 5am rather loudly. Whilst this was somewhat annoying, I did think "oo that sounds good".

The DB1s were on the end of a Uniti beforehand and, whilst I don't think I've explicitly heard the two together, I'd expect the Nait 5i to be a very good match. I would really not worry about the single terminals that much; you can't bi-amp unless you add a power amp, and my experience of biwiring (single terminal at amp end, dual at speaker end) as showing an improvement could easily have fallen into the realms of placebo.

Lastly, when I had DB1+s previously it was with a Creek 5350SE (is that right?) which was also a very good match. Rare as hen's teeth though, and can't speak for how they'd be with their other amps.

well thats a first ! id gladly give an arm and limb for the naim uniti , suprised to see that you replaced naim with cambridge gear . Having said that what kind of music do you listen to ? and what source i.e mp3 , flac , wav etcc...

it could be that you didnt miss naim because cambridge does well to add sweetness to digital files ..

 

[plastic penguin]

Right, a few points since I have or had a few of the components that are being discussed. First note that I now have the newer DB1i but had the DB1+ a couple of years ago.

The DB1i works really well with the Cambridge. Lots of power and clarity, if - to my ears - slightly more ragged in the treble than the NaimUniti it replaced. I realised that it does have lots of clean power when for some reason I managed to set some sort of timer (or something went wrong with the iPad app or something) when my system started playing my iTunes library at random at 5am rather loudly. Whilst this was somewhat annoying, I did think "oo that sounds good".

The DB1s were on the end of a Uniti beforehand and, whilst I don't think I've explicitly heard the two together, I'd expect the Nait 5i to be a very good match. I would really not worry about the single terminals that much; you can't bi-amp unless you add a power amp, and my experience of biwiring (single terminal at amp end, dual at speaker end) as showing an improvement could easily have fallen into the realms of placebo.

Lastly, when I had DB1+s previously it was with a Creek 5350SE (is that right?) which was also a very good match. Rare as hen's teeth though, and can't speak for how they'd be with their other amps.

well thats a first ! id gladly give an arm and limb for the naim uniti , suprised to see that you replaced naim with cambridge gear . Having said that what kind of music do you listen to ? and what source i.e mp3 , flac , wav etcc...

it could be that you didnt miss naim because cambridge does well to add sweetness to digital files ..

I'm th opposite to John. Haven't heard the Uniti but have the Nait 5i with PMCs. According to all the info the Nait and the Uniti share the same internals. So they should be the exactly the same SQ, perhaps with a scintilla of difference.

 

[Vortex160]

What about the audio lab 8200a ?

has anyone tried it with the db1+ ?

A dealer told me that 8200a is tonally almost the same as the creek evo2 , the creek being slightly better and 8200a has twin terminals for bi wiring ...

so far i have narrowed it down to

-second hand or demo naim nait 5i($800 -1000) pure music

- creek evo2 ($1199)nice

-nad 375bee ($1200) thumping loud party music

-nad t757 ($ 1200) bi amping 60 per channel,dedicated sub out for my psb sub and the added benefit of using my ps3 for hd movies

-audio lab 8200a($999) ???????? maybe ....

i would need a decent dac too , so dacmagic plus or audio lab m dac

 

[Vortex160]

just found out that audiolab mdac can be used a pre amp...

anyone have any experience with it , hows does it sound ??

 

[bigblue235]

I want to biamp the db1s because i feel seperate power for hf and lf improves the imaging and sound stage signifcantly...Especially if your listening to complex tunes.

It may well do, but surely it's only relevant if you're comparing a single amp with a bi-amped set-up of the same quality? If you want to spend a particular amount, you'll either have 4 lower quality channels of amplification or 2 better quality channels. I'd go for 2, myself

 

[Electro]

I want to biamp the db1s because i feel seperate power for hf and lf improves the imaging and sound stage signifcantly...Especially if your listening to complex tunes.

It may well do, but surely it's only relevant if you're comparing a single amp with a bi-amped set-up of the same quality? If you want to spend a particular amount, you'll either have 4 lower quality channels of amplification or 2 better quality channels. I'd go for 2, myself

+1

 

[Vortex160]

Right, a few points since I have or had a few of the components that are being discussed. First note that I now have the newer DB1i but had the DB1+ a couple of years ago.

The DB1i works really well with the Cambridge. Lots of power and clarity, if - to my ears - slightly more ragged in the treble than the NaimUniti it replaced. I realised that it does have lots of clean power when for some reason I managed to set some sort of timer (or something went wrong with the iPad app or something) when my system started playing my iTunes library at random at 5am rather loudly. Whilst this was somewhat annoying, I did think "oo that sounds good".

The DB1s were on the end of a Uniti beforehand and, whilst I don't think I've explicitly heard the two together, I'd expect the Nait 5i to be a very good match. I would really not worry about the single terminals that much; you can't bi-amp unless you add a power amp, and my experience of biwiring (single terminal at amp end, dual at speaker end) as showing an improvement could easily have fallen into the realms of placebo.

Lastly, when I had DB1+s previously it was with a Creek 5350SE (is that right?) which was also a very good match. Rare as hen's teeth though, and can't speak for how they'd be with their other amps.

well thats a first ! id gladly give an arm and limb for the naim uniti , suprised to see that you replaced naim with cambridge gear . Having said that what kind of music do you listen to ? and what source i.e mp3 , flac , wav etcc...

it could be that you didnt miss naim because cambridge does well to add sweetness to digital files ..

I'm th opposite to John. Haven't heard the Uniti but have the Nait 5i with PMCs. According to all the info the Nait and the Uniti share the same internals. So they should be the exactly the same SQ, perhaps with a scintilla of difference.

plastic peguin have you had any experience with audiolab kit , would the 8200A and 8200cd combo be good match tonally with the db1+ ? though have been reading alot of neagative stuff form users about the 8200a contrary to the whathifi and techradar review .

both the 8200cd and mdac got the whathifi product of the year award ...

Another option i was thinking about is using the m dac or 8200cd with a nad amp? so that the system is not too bright?

whats your opinion?

 

[plastic penguin]

Right, a few points since I have or had a few of the components that are being discussed. First note that I now have the newer DB1i but had the DB1+ a couple of years ago.

The DB1i works really well with the Cambridge. Lots of power and clarity, if - to my ears - slightly more ragged in the treble than the NaimUniti it replaced. I realised that it does have lots of clean power when for some reason I managed to set some sort of timer (or something went wrong with the iPad app or something) when my system started playing my iTunes library at random at 5am rather loudly. Whilst this was somewhat annoying, I did think "oo that sounds good".

The DB1s were on the end of a Uniti beforehand and, whilst I don't think I've explicitly heard the two together, I'd expect the Nait 5i to be a very good match. I would really not worry about the single terminals that much; you can't bi-amp unless you add a power amp, and my experience of biwiring (single terminal at amp end, dual at speaker end) as showing an improvement could easily have fallen into the realms of placebo.

Lastly, when I had DB1+s previously it was with a Creek 5350SE (is that right?) which was also a very good match. Rare as hen's teeth though, and can't speak for how they'd be with their other amps.

well thats a first ! id gladly give an arm and limb for the naim uniti , suprised to see that you replaced naim with cambridge gear . Having said that what kind of music do you listen to ? and what source i.e mp3 , flac , wav etcc...

it could be that you didnt miss naim because cambridge does well to add sweetness to digital files ..

I'm th opposite to John. Haven't heard the Uniti but have the Nait 5i with PMCs. According to all the info the Nait and the Uniti share the same internals. So they should be the exactly the same SQ, perhaps with a scintilla of difference.

plastic peguin have you had any experience with audiolab kit , would the 8200A and 8200cd combo be good match tonally with the db1+ ? though have been reading alot of neagative stuff form users about the 8200a contrary to the whathifi and techradar review .

both the 8200cd and mdac got the whathifi product of the year award ...

Another option i was thinking about is using the m dac or 8200cd with a nad amp? so that the system is not too bright?

whats your opinion?

No, not the amp. Heard very briefly the CD8200 with DB1is and the Leema. Sounded fine but it was a very swift affair. Please take into account that I've only heard the DB1is and not the +, so I don't know how different they are.

Personally I'd be auditioning the Creek Evo2. It has a very punchy and fairly smooth presentation. Other than that Arcam/DBs is a mean combo.