Please, please, please kill that AVI thread.

[the record spot]

Boring, boring, boring. It's gone on far too long. Suggest kill at 50 posts.

You should check out the one I did for Onkyo's TX-8050 last winter...much :type:

 

[Frank Harvey]

What system would you have in mind Frank? Would it out of neccessity use similar sized speakers to the ADMs for example?

I imagine you would need a DAC in addition to amplification too, for completeness, with say, a CD player common to both systems to compare with and without DACs.

All that aside, I can't see something like this being pulled off by the mag and the ADMs would be the winners regardless of result. Either they would be better outright, or deemed a success as they needed to be pitted against a multi thousand pound system to be bettered.

Far better to include a variety of system types and at different price levels, including budget, but what would be the benefit for the mag?

I'll answer this on behalf of Frank, as he doesn't get involved in forums unless I say something I shouldn't have done...

I do find it funny how when listing everything that is needed to compete against the AVI's, there's always an emphasis on the DAC. Most systems have a DAC, whether the source is CD based or streamer based. A £100 CD player has a DAC. And according to those "in the know", all DACs sound the same anyway...

You can start with a pair of KEF LS50's and Pioneer A50 amp - £1300. I'm not saying it'll better them as I've not heard the ADM9's, but for the average user, it'll be loud enough, and by the sounds of the descriptions of the AVI's, will be similar tonally.

I really don't see the need to go to "multi-thousand pound" systems to better them. Of course, "better" is subjective to most people - if they don't like it, it isn't better.

And if you do include higher end systems, just make sure the components actually work well together, rather than some of the botch jobs that some seem to move from and make misleading claims.

 

[Overdose]

What system would you have in mind Frank? Would it out of neccessity use similar sized speakers to the ADMs for example?

I imagine you would need a DAC in addition to amplification too, for completeness, with say, a CD player common to both systems to compare with and without DACs.

All that aside, I can't see something like this being pulled off by the mag and the ADMs would be the winners regardless of result. Either they would be better outright, or deemed a success as they needed to be pitted against a multi thousand pound system to be bettered.

Far better to include a variety of system types and at different price levels, including budget, but what would be the benefit for the mag?

I'll answer this on behalf of Frank, as he doesn't get involved in forums unless I say something I shouldn't have done...

I do find it funny how when listing everything that is needed to compete against the AVI's, there's always an emphasis on the DAC. Most systems have a DAC, whether the source is CD based or streamer based. A £100 CD player has a DAC. And according to those "in the know", all DACs sound the same anyway...

You can start with a pair of KEF LS50's and Pioneer A50 amp - £1300. I'm not saying it'll better them as I've not heard the ADM9's, but for the average user, it'll be loud enough, and by the sounds of the descriptions of the AVI's, will be similar tonally.

I really don't see the need to go to "multi-thousand pound" systems to better them. Of course, "better" is subjective to most people - if they don't like it, it isn't better.

And if you do include higher end systems, just make sure the components actually work well together, rather than some of the botch jobs that some seem to move from and make misleading claims.

The ADMs contain preamp and DAC alongside the standard active amplification, so it stands to reason that if any comparison is to be made, then those components in separate form would be needed.

Better is subjective and in a blind test there will usually always be preferences for A,B or whatever else is being listened to. So in this context, 'better' is what you prefer, surely?

What is it about high end systems that need to be carefully matched to work properly, surely this is a bad thing? Shouldn't so called 'high end' products just work? Your implication seems to be that if not carefully matched, 'high end' systems could indeed be bettered by the ADMs. Is this not the basis of the claim that the ADMs could better multi thousand pound high end systems (whoever made that claim)?

Anyway, bring on the test. I might even buy the mag to see the interesting results.

 

[Frank Harvey]

What people prefer isn't necessarily what is better.

There are a number of reasons why you can't just throw any old system together, have it work 100%, and have it sound amazing. Just in the same way I'm sure the ADM9's aren't just a bunch of components thrown together and a great product magically appears.

 

[Overdose]

In the land of the subjective (hifi and music) preference is king, but then aren't all reviews subjective, with items presumably ranked in terms of ability using a star system? Given any price bracket, a 5 star product is better than a 3 star one, no?

If you have to be picky with any separates system to achieve the best results, rather than just buy what you fancy, that's a +1 to the ADMs surely? Of course assuming that the ADMs componentry is optimum, but then that is also academic, as you have no choice over what you get inside.

 

[Anonymous]

Can this thread run to more responses than the one it's trying to kill?

 

[Overdose]

With unneccessary posts like that and this, yes.

 

[whoam1]

Can this thread run to more responses than the one it's trying to kill?

It would prove a point.

 

[whoam1]

Can this thread run to more responses than the one it's trying to kill?

It would prove a point.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes it would prove a point.

 

[Frank Harvey]

In the land of the subjective (hifi and music) preference is king, but then aren't all reviews subjective, with items presumably ranked in terms of ability using a star system? Given any price bracket, a 5 star product is better than a 3 star one, no?

Not necessarily. The star ranking usually takes into account flexibility, compatibility, and features, as well as quality. So, a 3star product may actually sound as good or maybe better than a 4star one.

If you have to be picky with any separates system to achieve the best results, rather than just buy what you fancy, that's a +1 to the ADMs surely? Of course assuming that the ADMs componentry is optimum, but then that is also academic, as you have no choice over what you get inside.

So separates have a +1 because of the choice and combinations available?

 

[Anonymous]

Did you know avi is an anagram of via?

 

[Overdose]

In the land of the subjective (hifi and music) preference is king, but then aren't all reviews subjective, with items presumably ranked in terms of ability using a star system? Given any price bracket, a 5 star product is better than a 3 star one, no?

Not necessarily. The star ranking usually takes into account flexibility, compatibility, and features, as well as quality. So, a 3star product may actually sound as good or maybe better than a 4star one.

If you have to be picky with any separates system to achieve the best results, rather than just buy what you fancy, that's a +1 to the ADMs surely? Of course assuming that the ADMs componentry is optimum, but then that is also academic, as you have no choice over what you get inside.

So separates have a +1 because of the choice and combinations available?

The star rating is an example of how a product might be perceived as being better than the next. Also if a preference is given to a product on how it sounds in a listening test, then that too constitutes better for the listener.

+1 for choice and combinations? No, point missed completely.

Anyway, you are the one who suggested some sort of listening shoot out, so maybe you could come up with some suggestions as to how this would be best achieved?

I'd love to be in on a listening test such as this, but am unlikely to get the opportunity, also, I couldn't verify any differences between any of my previous DACs, so I might not be the best candidate for such a test.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Anyway, you are the one who suggested some sort of listening shoot out, so maybe you could come up with some suggestions as to how this would be best achieved?

That's down to WHF's BQ organisers

 

[Overdose]

To run the gig or not, is up to WHF.

To make a suggestion or two on how it could work, is for anyone to chip in. As someone working in the hifi retail industry, I'd have thought you would have some sort of idea, or you wouldn't have suggested it in the first place.

 

[whoam1]

Yes it would prove a point.

Directly or via another route?

 

[Alec]

Yes it would prove a point.

No, it wouldn't.

 

[whoam1]

Yes it would prove a point.

No, it wouldn't.

Feel free to enlighten me...

 

[whoam1]

Yes it would prove a point.

No, it wouldn't.

Feel free to enlighten me...

 

[Overdose]

215 more post to go!

 

[Anonymous]

Yes it would prove a point.

No, it wouldn't.

Feel free to enlighten me...

black is white, just go round in circles having a pointless debate on here just like they are on the original thread. Did you know avi is an anagram of iva.

 

[Frank Harvey]

To run the gig or not, is up to WHF.

To make a suggestion or two on how it could work, is for anyone to chip in. As someone working in the hifi retail industry, I'd have thought you would have some sort of idea, or you wouldn't have suggested it in the first place.

It was mainly a tongue-in-cheek comment

 

[Tonestar1]

It's the belittlement of other enthusiasts that winds me up.

The continual regurgitation of comments like "They may be too honest for certain people" drive me nuts. As does "active is always better than passive, no crossovers. That's what recording studios use so it must be better ”. Finally "Once you hear AVI you forget about upgrades and just enjoy the music"

The message seems to be, if you can't hear how great AVI are then you must be physically/mentally/aurally deficient in some manner. Emperors new clothes springs to mind. How can these reviews be taken seriously when they continually repeat the same statements.

It’s insulting to people whom have spent years building systems that they love to listen too.

If user reviews actually felt a bit more organic or non-scripted then I would be far keener to read. As soon as I read any of the quotes above or derivatives thereof I completely switch off.

 

[char_lotte]

It's nearly dead now.....just being poked with sticks now by a few passers by.

 

[shropshire lad]

It's nearly dead now.....just being poked with sticks now by a few passers by.

Yes , but as "it" is a phoenix it will rise again from the ashes in a more terrifying form .