Phono preamp to improve Pioneer A400?

[admin_exported]

Hi all

I’ve just got off the old Bay a Minty Pioneer A400 to replace my serviced, lovely but allegedly not as good Marantz PM6010 OSE. It drives a pair of Mission 752s and needs to cope with the output of CD/DVD/Sky/BluRay and a Revolver Rose RC with a AT95e cart. I’ve heard that the A400’s MM phono stage is weak and noisy – sounds OK and similar to the Marantz but lacks something my old Pioneer SA-508 phono stage has. The TT is closer to the amp then I’d like as well so I got thinking – what about an external MM phono stage? Like a NAD PP1 or one of those little Rega boxes? Something s/h maybe and sub £50 if possible. Even sub £100 at a push. Will this make any difference to the vinyl experience? Or just throwing money at a very minimal improvement only an engineer can hear?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

j

 

[Al ears]

Hi,

I had an A400 for some time. It was considered, when new, to have one of the better phono stages around.

If you want to upgrade it for that sort of money you might investigate one of the Project Phonoboxes.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers! I'd also like to move my TT a bit further from the amp than the earthing will allow. I've also looked at the Cambridge Audio 640p which seems well reviewed. I doubt I will ever need MC capability though. Would it give me £100 more sound - or am I far better off getting a s/h Project or Rega Fono Mini? Some say you need to get to the Phono Box SE to get anything decent. Others that even the cheapest Rega is an improvement over a circa 1990 integrated stage. Any other thoughts out there in the community?

 

[Anonymous]

The V-LPS is a very good phono stage indeed.

 

[the record spot]

How does the A400 get on with the 752s just out of interest? How does it sound?

 

[Sizzers]

General consensus from a number of other forums is that the phono stage is pretty average at best, if not downright poor (note I'm speaking from others' opinions, not personal experience).

Mission speakers around that time seemed to be a particularly popular combo. One's which really comes to mind are the 780SE's but silly me sold mine *grrr*. The 752's also seemed to be a very popular choice if IIRC.

 

[Anonymous]

Well it is early days but I'd say very well indeed. It seems more detailed than the Marantz it replaced, fast, but warm. It is all subjective and I can't pretend I've got the right reviewer's vocabulary but to me it feels like timeless hifi as it should be. Sometimes it feels like I am in the studio with the musicians, or listening to the soundboard at a show. More than before anyway I think. They seem to like each other - and just plain economics suggests that the components used in a £250 1990 Japanese amp will be higher grade and spec than most under £500 today - if not more in an age of iPod docs, remotes etc. In real terms the cost of a400 amp new is £450 in today's money - and the cost of its components is far greater today. Not labour if made in China of course, but all the other bits - and also it was an era when companies like Pioneer really tried their best to include overengineered parts as a matter of pride. These days of OEMs are rather more variable...

 

[Sizzers]

I wasn't knocking the amp - I have one and I think it's a fantastic buy. Just hoping that I can find a living arrangement where I can hook it back up and play it how it should be played. I don't find it that good or controllable at low volumes (which is my current listening situation), hence the purchase of the Marantz.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers, Sizzers! I know you weren't knocking it. I've got a similar problem. At the moment there is no-one living downstairs but when there is I fear acceptable amplification will be around mobile phone level.

I noticed that a lot of other forums and commentators say the phono stage is just OK or a weak point. But there is always the risk of groupthink ;-) I suppose in 1990 it was around the bottom of most engineer's interests compared to DAT et al. So even a good integrated stage from the era might be a little like a complementary biscuit.

I may well upgrade with a s/h stage of some sort along the lines of those kindly advised here. The 640p looks nice, but I don't need MC and am suspicious of filters etc. Love my DACmagic though so who knows.

 

[Paul.]

I was very happy with the Project Phonobox SE when I used to have an rpm9, recon you could get a mk1 on ebay for £60-£70 quid

 

[Anonymous]

I'm perfectly happy with the phono sound through my A-400 and from what I recall I don't think I modified the stage either.

I'd recommend a move to a new cartridge such as the excellent Ortofon 2M Red as the budget AT95E would be quite limiting. I was really taken aback at how much better the 2M was than my old award winning Nagaoka MP-11 Boron.

 

[Anonymous]

The A400 would probably benefit from a set of new electrolytics capacitors, as these do tend to gradually 'go off' over time, becoming less and less 'ideal' capacitors.

Careful of the small box pre-amps unless you are paying a lot, the cheap one I bought from Project is a cheap op-amp in a heavy feedback loop and sounded so flat I could almost not recognise my record deck. Substituting it for a decent tube phone transformed the sound.

The phono pre-amp is the most difficult amplifier to build properly, which is why there are so many bad ones.

 

[matthewpiano]

I wasn't knocking the amp - I have one and I think it's a fantastic buy. Just hoping that I can find a living arrangement where I can hook it back up and play it how it should be played. I don't find it that good or controllable at low volumes (which is my current listening situation), hence the purchase of the Marantz.

I would actually argue that the PM6003 is the better amp Sizzers. I personally think things have moved on since the A400. I've had two and whilst they were good I don't think they were anything special.

 

[Sizzers]

Things have moved on!

I really did enjoy the amp when I first bought it about 14-months ago (hooked up to Mission 780SE's), but it never totally worked out as a bedroom set-up which is why I bought the Marantz not too long afterwards. Dug it up for a listen a couple of weeks ago and think it sounds horrible! Bright, harsh, and down right nasty to my ears now. Okay, not the best speaker combo (Dali's or my Focal's), but it did make me wonder what I saw in it.