John Duncan
Well-known member
And since the average dynamic range of CDs appears to be hardly anything at all, we should all be fine
steve_1979 said:I admit that I've never heard speaker with a 100dB sensitivity but I have heard several speakers with a sensitivity in the 90's. WHF recommend you can use it with the Dynaudio Focus 160 which only has a low sensitivity of 86dB.
In my experience anything less than 30wpc just isn't enough because the amp will start clipping too easily especially if you listen to music that has a lot of dynamic range. Surley I'm not the only person on this forum who realises that 10wpc just isn't enough?
Even if the Pathos amplifier sounds perfect at low levels as soon as it starts clipping is will become distorted. Why would a £4K amplifier that distorts every time you get a large peak in the music get 5 stars?
John Duncan said:And since the average dynamic range of CDs appears to be hardly anything at all, we should all be fine
Is this some sort of old fashioned Hi-Fi, I'm not sure where to connect the cd player and speakers.John Duncan said:The components in this violin would cost you about $200...
eggontoast said:Is this some sort of old fashioned Hi-Fi, I'm not sure where to connect the cd player and speakers.John Duncan said:The components in this violin would cost you about $200...
Helmut80 said:eggontoast said:John Duncan said:The components in this violin would cost you about $200...
Is this some sort of old fashioned Hi-Fi, I'm not sure where to connect the cd player and speakers.
It's an all-in one solution.
acalex said:Steve, for sure it's not the same but I have tried (and trying at home for a month) a Jadis 50RC Signature (which is a 6k eur 30W tube amp) with Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento (which according to the specs are "only" 86db) and it sounded absolutely stunning at every volume level (went up to 85db volume which is far beyond my normal listening level) and with every type of music (from big orchestra to drums only to Jazz, rock etc). No clipping at all and an unbelievable musical experience.
For sure won't fill a 100sqm room with loud disco music...but that's not the purpose either of those amplifiers
I might try all the Pathos family this month ( Inpol 2 and Inpol remix)...so i will let you know
steve_1979 said:To answer peoples question: Yes I have heard underpowered valve amps before and I also admit that there is a certain charm to their soft/warm sound. It's rather nice in a distorted/coloured kind of way and I can fully understand why it's a sound that appeals to some people. The big problem is the limited dynamic range that ruins the sound every time there's a loud volume peak in the music. It's an issue with any music that has a lot of dynamic range such as classical.
Have a listen to Ravel's Bolero using an under-powered 10 watt amp and you will see what I mean... Go on check out Bolero on Spotify now.
If you have the volume turned up loud enough to hear the quiet intro clearly then by the time you get to the loud finally at the end you have passed the limit of the amps power output and it will started clipping which distorts the sound.
This sort of dynamic range is needed for lots of different music, it's not just in classical.
CnoEvil said:I think you have either listened to the wrong Tube amps, or the right amps with the wrong speakers.
steve_1979 said:CnoEvil said:I think you have either listened to the wrong Tube amps, or the right amps with the wrong speakers.
True. I haven't heard many tube amps because they just aren't my thing. I also haven't heard any urber sensitive 100dB speakers either.
I have experimented with many different amps though and found that 30wpc with sensitive speakers is just about adequate for dynamic music and 50wpc or more is much better.
In the WHF review they say that the Dynaudio's Focus 160 speakers work well with this amp even though they're only 86dB! Surely there's no way that this combo could ever play Bolero at a sensible volume without sounding like an awful distorted mess at the end of the track.
How did amp that distorts during the dynamic peaks in classical music get 5 stars?
steve_1979 said:How did amp that distorts during the dynamic peaks in classical music get 5 stars?
steve_1979 said:How did amp that distorts during the dynamic peaks in classical music get 5 stars?
John Duncan said:You've heard it distort then?
WinterRacer said:they like the sound of the distortion.
steve_1979 said:John Duncan said:You've heard it distort then?
A 30 watt amp with 90dB speakers is barely capable of playing dynamic music at a sensible volume without clipping.
A 10 watt amp with 86dB speakers is going to clip unless it has somehow managed to alter the laws of physics.
John Duncan said:So no then.
steve_1979 said:In the WHF review they say that the Dynaudio's Focus 160 speakers work well with this amp even though they're only 86dB! Surely there's no way that this combo could ever play Bolero at a sensible volume without sounding like an awful distorted mess at the end of the track.
steve_1979 said:I haven't heard the Pathos amp no.
steve_1979 said:John Duncan said:So no then.
But I have heard several other underpowered amps (most of which had more than 10 watts) and they all distort during the large dynamic peaks.
steve_1979 said:Like I said. Unless the Pathos amp doesn't need follow thew same laws of physics as other amps then it will clip. Or are you trying to say that a watt produced by the Pathos is somehow capable of doing more work than a watt produced by any other amp?