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Pathos InpolRemix 10 watt amplifier

steve_1979

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Jul 14, 2010
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www.whathifi.com/review/pathos-inpolremix

I hadn't realized that it was April the 1st.

A £3800 10wpc amplifier gets 5 stars. Is this some sort of sick joke or has the hifi industry really lost it's way that badly?

If you break the £3800 price down how much do you think each of the separate eliments would cost?
£1000 for the machined case.
£300 for the electronics (I'm probably being generous here too).
£2500 profit.
 

steve_1979

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Jul 14, 2010
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John Duncan said:
That margin's pretty much on a par with an iPhone btw, and I don't see anybody complaining...
I didn't know that. Interesting. :)

Re: the Pathos amplifier. It's probably wrong to assume that it's supposed to be a serious piece of hifi equiptment. I expect it's only intended to be an expensive piece of 'bling-fi' aimed at the Far Eastern market. If it had a lower price it wouldn't have the right status and just wouldn't sell.

But really WHF. 5 stars?
 

John Duncan

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Jan 8, 2008
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Maybe it - and here's an interesting concept - sounds really good.

How much do you think the components in a pair of Neutron Vs (or indeed any loudspeaker) cost? Hang on while I check mdf prices...
 

BenLaw

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2010
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Surely without hearing it it's impossible to say it shouldn't be 5 stars? The review makes clear that it needs careful partnering and it's not the amp for out-and-out volume and dynamics. Besides, how often do you use more than the first watt of your amp??
 

moon

New member
Nov 10, 2011
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not sure what you are worrying about Steve, 5* is 5*s . no one is forcing anyone to buy it . if spending that much cash auditioning would make ones mind up .

Are you questioning it because you are now part of the all singing all dancing AVI team where their products mince everything else in price and sound quality comparison and nothing else will possibly compare? :)
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2007
281
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Power output isn't everything and dismissing an amp on this basis without listening to it first is meaningless.

As for the cost base and profit margin, many many things we all buy cost substantially less to produce than we pay for them.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
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IMO Equating Watts per channel with quality is a big mistake....A listen to Audio Note's very expensive low powered amps, make the point nicely.
 

floyd droid

New member
Sep 5, 2008
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Or some of my piffleing single enders. 10 watts is huge stevie boy. Jeez bits of kids and bad beer eh,lol.
 

CJSF

New member
May 25, 2011
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Mmm . . . a couple of points I might take issue with WHF in its review . . . Jardis did a 12w valve amp that was outstanding . . . yes, it was 25 years ago I heard it, and, it was a couple of grand at the time! Glen Croft has been making first rate Hybrids for a long time at a fair price.

Sadly, the modern hifi industry realy does put its self up for 'the why factor' . . . I can accept it may have that 'something special' 5 star quality? In my book, it would have to be mindblowingly good cos its so ugly! . . . only its mother could love it?

CJSF
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
moon said:
Are you questioning it because you are now part of the all singing all dancing AVI team where their products mince everything else in price and sound quality comparison and nothing else will possibly compare? :)
You sounded sensible and reasonable until that point.
 

moon

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Nov 10, 2011
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igglebert said:
moon said:
Are you questioning it because you are now part of the all singing all dancing AVI team where their products mince everything else in price and sound quality comparison and nothing else will possibly compare? :)
You sounded sensible and reasonable until that point.
well then I will deleat it if you are. unhappy about it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
moon said:
igglebert said:
moon said:
Are you questioning it because you are now part of the all singing all dancing AVI team where their products mince everything else in price and sound quality comparison and nothing else will possibly compare? :)
You sounded sensible and reasonable until that point.
well then I will deleat it if you are. unhappy about it.
Don't let me stop you attacking other forum members. I'd hate to look like I'm biased.
 

moon

New member
Nov 10, 2011
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igglebert said:
moon said:
igglebert said:
moon said:
Are you questioning it because you are now part of the all singing all dancing AVI team where their products mince everything else in price and sound quality comparison and nothing else will possibly compare? :)
You sounded sensible and reasonable until that point.
well then I will deleat it if you are. unhappy about it.
Don't let me stop you attacking other forum members. I'd hate to look like I'm biased.
Look I am sorry ok, I really didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. In future I will think before I post.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
moon said:
igglebert said:
moon said:
igglebert said:
moon said:
Are you questioning it because you are now part of the all singing all dancing AVI team where their products mince everything else in price and sound quality comparison and nothing else will possibly compare? :)
You sounded sensible and reasonable until that point.
well then I will deleat it if you are. unhappy about it.
Don't let me stop you attacking other forum members. I'd hate to look like I'm biased.
Look I am sorry ok, I really didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. In future I will think before I post.
Thank you. I grow tired of AVI owner bashing.
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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18,795
BenLaw said:
Surely without hearing it it's impossible to say it shouldn't be 5 stars?
That's true, I haven't actually heard it. :) But in my experience using anything less than a minium of 30wpc just isn't enough even with efficient speakers. Anything less and it'll be clipping all the time even at low volumes.

BenLaw said:
Besides, how often do you use more than the first watt of your amp?
When listening to music at normal listening levels you only use a fraction of a watt most of the time but you also need to have plenty in reserve for the short instantaneous peaks which do require lots of power.

moon said:
Are you questioning it because you are now part of the all singing all dancing AVI
Erm? No.
I don't remember mentioning AVI or see how you made that connection.

moon said:
their products mince everything else in price and sound quality comparison and nothing else will possibly compare?
They do make excellent products and offer better value for money than most manufacturer's. But I don't think that there's nothing else that could possibly compare. For example I think that Quested also make excellent products and offer far better value than most.

matthewpiano said:
Power output isn't everything and dismissing an amp on this basis without listening to it first is meaningless.
I agree that power output isn't everything but the specs can still give you a good indication about how it will sound. It only has 10wpc and if it isn't clipping all the time then I'll eat my hat.
 

moon

New member
Nov 10, 2011
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Steve, sorry about the previous post,

If you are right though and this amp is constantly clipping, then shouldn't someone write to Pathos and inform them of their catastrophic error so they can correct it.

Also what type of hat do you own.?
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
7
18,795
moon said:
Steve, sorry about the previous post
No Worries. :)
My first post was pretty undiplomatic too and was probably asking for a few digs from people.

moon said:
If you are right though and this amp is constantly clipping, then shouldn't someone write to Pathos and inform them of their catastrophic error so they can correct it.
I expect that they're already well aware that it'll regularly be clipping due to it's extremely low power output.

moon said:
Also what type of hat do you own.?
A hard hat (I think I'm probably going to need it in this thread). :wall:
 

moon

New member
Nov 10, 2011
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I thought these types of amps were designed to use with super sensitive speakers?
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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I expect that with very sensitive speakers you could listen at low volume levels without it clipping. I bet it would still struggle with any music that has a lot of dynamic range though. Something like Ravel's Bolero would probably get the better of it even if you used sensitive speakers.
 

hoopsontoast

New member
Oct 1, 2011
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Sigh.....

Really? Not everyone needs excessive power!

Used with efficient speakers, I doubt that it would sound less than brilliant!

Have you heard efficient speakers with low output tube amps? This mated to some 100dB horns could be a stunning combo! And if you got that to clip, then you must like loosing your hearing!

"£1000 for the machined case.
£300 for the electronics (I'm probably being generous here too).
£2500 profit."

Narrow Minded much?

You know the difference between 10w and 100w into the same speakers is roughly 10dB extra. Which is only really twice as loud in real life.
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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I admit that I've never heard speaker with a 100dB sensitivity but I have heard several speakers with a sensitivity in the 90's. WHF recommend using the Dynaudio Focus 160 speakers which only have a sensitivity of 86dB.

In my experience anything less than 30wpc just isn't enough because the amp will start clipping too easily especially if you listen to music that has a lot of dynamic range. Surley I'm not the only person on this forum who realises that 10wpc just isn't enough?

Even if the Pathos amplifier sounds perfect at low levels as soon as it starts clipping is will become distorted. Why would a £4K amplifier that distorts every time you get a large peak in the music get 5 stars?

:wall:
 

hoopsontoast

New member
Oct 1, 2011
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Maybe you should hear some efficient speakers :grin:

I used a 8w T-Amp, and never got it to clip into 80dB speakers, not everyone has massive rooms or listen at loud levels.

And if you do have a large room, get suitably large and efficient speakers! :rofl:

What speakers have you been using 30w into? I had a 8w SE Tube amp into ~92dB DIY Full range speakers, and it was lovely, as well as some ~94dB Open Baffle DIY speakers.

If you want to hear what low powered Tube amps and suitably large speakers can do, come to the Scalford Hall Hifi show on 4th March -

http://www.thehifishow.com/
 

The_Lhc

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Oct 16, 2008
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steve_1979 said:
I expect that with very sensitive speakers you could listen at low volume levels without it clipping.
Which, oddly enough, is exactly what the review recommends...
 

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