Paradigm SUB 15, Ken Kreisel 5000 Mark3 subwoofer advice advice needed..

[ric71]

Mr Big,

I presume this is the MJ Acoustics Ref 800 MK2.

I have not heard it but did own a Ref 1 MK3 which was a stunning sub woofer. Many people have not heard of MJ or will slag it off saying their subs are made by BK. They are not,they are designed and manufactured soley by MJ and they are fantastic subs. This sub does indeed look like a beast and I would love to hear it in action.

Please let us know how you get onwith it as I am intrigued.

All the best

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Mr Big i would just like to draw your attention to t his comment at the end of the DXD-12012 product information.

**Please note that two KEN KREISEL 12” drivers approaches or equals the cone area of a single 18” driver

That would indicate to me that one DXD12012 should be compared to a sub18 not 15 and that just to clarify one DXD12012 has two drivers.

If you still can't see what is the best to get i can't help.

Hi v1c

Looks like Mr_big can see the best -

I have made my final decision and the Reference 800 MKII Subwoofer it is. This sub will blow the likes of the Phantoms, Paradigm's, Velodynes etc etc clean out of the water. That sub bass driver is a beast and is rated at a low10Hz extension, which should be trouser flappingly good I was after monster bass well gang I have found the best neighbour fallout subwoofer in the world.. Consider nothing else fools.. You have been told so heed my warning, and weep if you have purchased anuthing else fools..

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[v1c]

Mr Big i would just like to draw your attention to t his comment at the end of the DXD-12012 product information.

**Please note that two KEN KREISEL 12” drivers approaches or equals the cone area of a single 18” driver

That would indicate to me that one DXD12012 should be compared to a sub18 not 15 and that just to clarify one DXD12012 has two drivers.

If you still can't see what is the best to get i can't help.

Hi v1c

Looks like Mr_big can see the best -

I have made my final decision and the Reference 800 MKII Subwoofer it is. This sub will blow the likes of the Phantoms, Paradigm's, Velodynes etc etc clean out of the water. That sub bass driver is a beast and is rated at a low10Hz extension, which should be trouser flappingly good I was after monster bass well gang I have found the best neighbour fallout subwoofer in the world.. Consider nothing else fools.. You have been told so heed my warning, and weep if you have purchased anuthing else fools..

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rick you do make me laugh :rofl:

My observations would be it's nigh on a Grand more , dosen't offer anything of significance over the DXD12012 on spec , it's only MK2 and absolutely utmostly importantly not been made by KEN KREISEL.

Therefore it can't be the best

Like i said if you still can't see what's the best i can't help.

 

[Anonymous]

Mr Big,

I presume this is the MJ Acoustics Ref 800 MK2.

I have not heard it but did own a Ref 1 MK3 which was a stunning sub woofer. Many people have not heard of MJ or will slag it off saying their subs are made by BK. They are not,they are designed and manufactured soley by MJ and they are fantastic subs. This sub does indeed look like a beast and I would love to hear it in action.

Please let us know how you get onwith it as I am intrigued.

All the best

Hi! ric71 Yes this subwoofer would be the Ref 800 MK3, it has a real world low of 10Hz and thats gospel but the driver can be found for £454 on it's own if youy look on line I don't know what to amke of this subwoofer to be honest so it will be a case of either the Paradigm or this MJ 800 Mrk3 Acoustics subwoofer..

 

[Anonymous]

Ok gang back again and just want a vote what do you all reckon on which subwoofer would you buy for the money both are relatively same price point.

Would you all vote please would you goo for the Paradigm Sub 15

or the MJ Acousticcs Reference MJ Acoustics 800 Mrk 2

I would like to know what you all think of which would you reckon would be the better subwoofer as the MJ Acoustics subwoofer driver unit can be purchased for not much cash so i'm wondering is all the money going on the hand built cabinet, lol.. Whereas Paradigm would have a factory mass producing these things possibly, so more money going into the their proprietary driver technology.. The sub abss driver in the MJ is 18'' and the paradigm is 15'' would a dealer maybe cast their thoughts but please i'm not interested in dear old KenK 5000 Mk 3.

:bounce:

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to say a big thank you to the two contributors v1c & Son_of_SJ, who gave their advice and now maybe thinking about the Paradigm Sub 15.. the driver on the MJ Acoustics doesn't seem to eb as robust as the Paradigms, anyone know the difference.. Anyway looks like the Paradigm is the sub of choice after all..

 

[Frank Harvey]

Very odd thread....

 

[ric71]

I personally would go for the Sub 15 as I think it is awesome. Yes from my experience MJ are excellent but the Ref 800 does seem over priced although I have never heard one. The Sub15 has over 3000 watts and is highly regarded. I would demo the Sub 15, MJ and the KK. If not I can assure you the Sub 15 will more than tick all of your requirements.

 

[Anonymous]

I personally would go for the Sub 15 as I think it is awesome. Yes from my experience MJ are excellent but the Ref 800 does seem over priced although I have never heard one. The Sub15 has over 3000 watts and is highly regarded. I would demo the Sub 15, MJ and the KK. If not I can assure you the Sub 15 will more than tick all of your requirements.

Paradigm Sub 15 it is then ya just something about the MJ 800 driver kinda swung me of it as it didn't look all that and i'm wondering is all hat money for the MJ Ref 800 going on tikme hand building that cabinet something which I would not want to be paying for.. Any way ric71, thank you for staying with the thread and offering sensible advice unlike yer man from FrankHarveyHiFi no offence, but not once did Frank offer any advice except to sell the KK 5000 Mk3.. L.O.L... :dance:

 

[Frank Harvey]

Any way ric71, thank you for staying with the thread and offering sensible advice unlike yer man from FrankHarveyHiFi no offence, but not once did Frank offer any advice except to sell the KK 5000 Mk3.. L.O.L... :dance:

And you were all nice to me on the phone the other day when you asked my advice...

If you double check the thread, you'll see that my two posts were in reply to ric. Once to ask if he'd heard the sub he was commenting on, and secondly to give him a comparison to Ken's older subs that he did own, so he could get an idea of how much better the newer ones are. So you'll notice that I haven't given any advice to sell this particular sub.

Those that actually listen to the sub won't need me to sell it to them

For what its worth, we used to stock MJ Acoustics. No one ever bought them. They were sold off for a loss online.

 

[Anonymous]

Any way ric71, thank you for staying with the thread and offering sensible advice unlike yer man from FrankHarveyHiFi no offence, but not once did Frank offer any advice except to sell the KK 5000 Mk3.. L.O.L... :dance:

And you were all nice to me on the phone the other day when you asked my advice...

If you double check the thread, you'll see that my two posts were in reply to ric. Once to ask if he'd heard the sub he was commenting on, and secondly to give him a comparison to Ken's older subs that he did own, so he could get an idea of how much better the newer ones are. So you'll notice that I haven't given any advice to sell this particular sub.

Those that actually listen to the sub won't need me to sell it to them

For what its worth, we used to stock MJ Acoustics. No one ever bought them. They were sold off for a loss online.

I don't ever remember chatting with you on the phone, guv? :rofl:

 

[Frank Harvey]

I don't ever remember chatting with you on the phone, guv? :rofl:

Hmmm. Ok, just A LOT of similarities....

Just a little confused by the flow of the thread.

 

[Anonymous]

Any way ric71, thank you for staying with the thread and offering sensible advice unlike yer man from FrankHarveyHiFi no offence, but not once did Frank offer any advice except to sell the KK 5000 Mk3.. L.O.L... :dance:

And you were all nice to me on the phone the other day when you asked my advice...

If you double check the thread, you'll see that my two posts were in reply to ric. Once to ask if he'd heard the sub he was commenting on, and secondly to give him a comparison to Ken's older subs that he did own, so he could get an idea of how much better the newer ones are. So you'll notice that I haven't given any advice to sell this particular sub.

Those that actually listen to the sub won't need me to sell it to them

For what its worth, we used to stock MJ Acoustics. No one ever bought them. They were sold off for a loss online.

I wonder what the guys @ MJ acoustics would say about you rubbishing their subwoofers on line :rofl: I don't assume they would be very pleased if they happened to come across this thread on line. :boohoo:

 

[Frank Harvey]

I wonder what the guys @ MJ acoustics would say about you rubbishing their subwoofers on line :rofl: I don't assume they would be very pleased if they happened to come across this thread on line. :boohoo:

All I have said is that they didn't sell - nothing wrong in that. Its called honesty. It was yourself that said the MJ driver "wasn't all that".

Anyway, you've dragged me into this enough and I can see the direction its heading. You've made your decision on the sub you're buying. Do pop back and let us know how you get on

 

[Anonymous]

I wonder what the guys @ MJ acoustics would say about you rubbishing their subwoofers on line :rofl: I don't assume they would be very pleased if they happened to come across this thread on line. :boohoo:

All I have said is that they didn't sell - nothing wrong in that. Its called honesty. It was yourself that said the MJ driver "wasn't all that".

Anyway, you've dragged me into this enough and I can see the direction its heading. You've made your decision on the sub you're buying. Do pop back and let us know how you get on

Hi! No there is nothing wrong with your comments at all and i'm not dragging anyone into anything, you were the architect of your own comments and you conducted yourself the way in which you did and I don't remember twisting your arm up your back and forcing you to say those things I justated stated a material fact and it was you who entered this discussion of entirely your own bat. So how you can say I dragged you into this is beyond me, I had nothing to do with any of your comments that you decided to write on this thread. I havn't got time or energy to waste on this either all I wanted was advice on buying a subwoofer, not to get personal with a particular company.

I have made a decision after much deliberation and have decided on the Paradigm Sub15. I will post back here when I have tested this subwoofer.

What do you think of pairing two Paradigm sub 12's, would that be better than one sub 15, anyway I think after much heated debate, :rofl: I ahve found my perfect subwoofer all I need now is the money, now thats another story.. :cheers:

 

[Frank Harvey]

I think you misunderstand. When I say you dragged me into it, I'm referring to the comment you made about me which I proved to be incorrect. Anyway, I'm sure someone with first hand experience of the Paras will pop along to answer your question.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Mr Big i would just like to draw your attention to t his comment at the end of the DXD-12012 product information.

**Please note that two KEN KREISEL 12” drivers approaches or equals the cone area of a single 18” driver

That would indicate to me that one DXD12012 should be compared to a sub18 not 15 and that just to clarify one DXD12012 has two drivers.

If you still can't see what is the best to get i can't help.

Hi v1c

Looks like Mr_big can see the best -

I have made my final decision and the Reference 800 MKII Subwoofer it is. This sub will blow the likes of the Phantoms, Paradigm's, Velodynes etc etc clean out of the water. That sub bass driver is a beast and is rated at a low10Hz extension, which should be trouser flappingly good I was after monster bass well gang I have found the best neighbour fallout subwoofer in the world.. Consider nothing else fools.. You have been told so heed my warning, and weep if you have purchased anuthing else fools..

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rick you do make me laugh :rofl:

My observations would be it's nigh on a Grand more , dosen't offer anything of significance over the DXD12012 on spec , it's only MK2 and absolutely utmostly importantly not been made by KEN KREISEL.

Therefore it can't be the best

Like i said if you still can't see what's the best i can't help.

Hi v1c

Your welcome :cheer:

Btw, i am not sure wheteher your latest "if you still can't see what's the best i can't help" is directed at the op or me. Anyway what do you feel is the best?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[moonfly]

**Please note that two KEN KREISEL 12” drivers approaches or equals the cone area of a single 18” driver

No idea who sad that, but thats impossible as is either an out and out lie or whoever said it is misguided, excusion ability being equal etc etc. An average measurement of driver surface area puts a 12 inch driver at about 450 cm2, while an average 18" driver will have around 1250 cm2. No way a KK dual 12 will out do an 18 in cone surface area.

 

[v1c]

**Please note that two KEN KREISEL 12” drivers approaches or equals the cone area of a single 18” driver

No idea who sad that, but thats impossible as is either an out and out lie or whoever said it is misguided, excusion ability being equal etc etc. An average measurement of driver surface area puts a 12 inch driver at about 450 cm2, while an average 18" driver will have around 1250 cm2. No way a KK dual 12 will out do an 18 in cone surface area.

It's on the bottom of the DXD12012 product information page i linked to earlier in the thread.

You need to take it up with Ken (the inventor of the subwoofer) not me please.

 

[v1c]

[/quote]

Hi v1c

Your welcome :cheer:

Btw, i am not sure wheteher your latest "if you still can't see what's the best i can't help" is directed at the op or me. Anyway what do you feel is the best?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

[/quote]

Rick your the best :dance: :dance:

 

[Frank Harvey]

**Please note that two KEN KREISEL 12” drivers approaches or equals the cone area of a single 18” driver

No idea who sad that, but thats impossible as is either an out and out lie or whoever said it is misguided, excusion ability being equal etc etc. An average measurement of driver surface area puts a 12 inch driver at about 450 cm2, while an average 18" driver will have around 1250 cm2. No way a KK dual 12 will out do an 18 in cone surface area.

It's on the bottom of the DXD12012 product information page i linked to earlier in the thread.

You need to take it up with Ken (the inventor of the subwoofer) not me please.

Youll have to excuse Dan v1c, he goes by numbers, not the actual performance of the sub/subs in question.

Whether a dual 12" can outdo an 18" really depends on the criteria that is taken into account, and how well both subs have been designed.

I haven't heard the DXD12012 in comparison to an 18" drivered sub, so I can't comment on specifics. Dan hasnt heard the DXD12012, so he can't comment on that comparison either. I know that the DXD12012 annihilates a 15" drivered sub, and in many ways, the smaller DXD808 can outperform an MX350, so from that I can only extrapolate that the statement is quite possible.

 

[moonfly]

I have no idea why you keep making such statements David. I absolutely do not go by specs alone, and have repeated so and countless occasions. I absolutely do go by performance, soe of which actually lies in the specs if you have any idea how to interpret them, but thats another subject.

The statement was that a pairof 12 inch drivers can have more cone area than a single eighteen. This is not the case. I gave the data. Most high school children can do simple maths and calulate area. I supplied the figures, you can even google it if you wish, upto you. If ken ever posts in this thread I will absolutely take it up him, but we all know that wont happen, but anyway.

I stand by the original response I posted, a pair of 12's will pretty much never have more surface area than an eighteen, and I only say pretty much as we're dealing with cones rather than circles, but no driver cones are that deep.

I'm happy to elaborate further, but thats generally frowned upon by fans and salesmen alike.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi moonfly

Thanks for your post I am genuinely interested so please elaborate further

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

I have no idea why you keep making such statements David. I absolutely do not go by specs alone, and have repeated so and countless occasions. I absolutely do go by performance, soe of which actually lies in the specs if you have any idea how to interpret them, but thats another subject. The statement was that a pairof 12 inch drivers can have more cone area than a single eighteen. This is not the case. I gave the data. Most high school children can do simple maths and calulate area. I supplied the figures, you can even google it if you wish, upto you. If ken ever posts in this thread I will absolutely take it up him, but we all know that wont happen, but anyway. I stand by the original response I posted, a pair of 12's will pretty much never have more surface area than an eighteen, and I only say pretty much as we're dealing with cones rather than circles, but no driver cones are that deep. I'm happy to elaborate further, but thats generally frowned upon by fans and salesmen alike.

So have you heard a DXD12012 then Dan?

As you can see by my post, I'm talking about performance, not surface area, so you can babble on all you like about surface areas. I was stating that it could be possible that it could be possible that it would outperform (outdo) an 18" equipped sub.

 

[BenLaw]

He was in no way babbling, that's unnecessarily rude of you David.

You're making a bit of a bum point anyway, as 'outperforming' unnamed opposition is meaningless. I imagine a 1" sub from KK would outperform an 18" sub I made from scratch in my garage; that doesn't mean he should put that claim on his website.